Larry Jones

Well, there goes that opportunity...

Do you currently use Mix Control (for cue mixes)? If so, I'd be interested in your take on the difference between that and Focusrite Control, which comes with the 2nd gen driver. Either way, let us know what you think.

Good to know I'm not alone. I've seen the YouTube tutorial you linked to -- came away thinking "He's leaving something out." Still not sure what. If I don't find a better way, I'll try Groove 3. I see generally how it works -- I just don't like it, and I'm no good at using it. When there are other people in the studio, I feel like I have to be good (and fast) at everything. Looking forward to a tutorial, Johnny. Let us know! Thanks @mettelus! If I end up having to use it, I'll take your advice. @Clint Martin - 2nd gen uses "Focusrite Control," which is different from "Mix Control." Have you found it to be better?

You got it. That's what I said in my original post. In actual practice, I have not found it to be nice. I've found it to be hard to work with, and as a result I don't use it. It's part of the driver for the Scarlett 6i6. As far as I know, it's the only way I can set up cue mixes with the 6i6, which is why I'm looking around for other devices with better cue mix software.

Done. I'm looking for an improvement on this:

@CJ Jacobson & @Jim Roseberry: Thanks guys! I guess I wasn't clear. I'm trying to find a USB interface with better (easier to use) routing software, so I can create multiple headphone mixes. The Focusrite Mix Control that comes with the Scarlett driver is confusing. I there might be something better for creating multiple headphone mixes. Naturally I don't want to go backward in latency, but that's not my main issue here.

First: It's free because it's being used as a marketing tool. There are other parts of the company that are supposed to make money. Even in the absence of any real numbers, I'll go along with your assertion that people just weren't/aren't that into Cakewalk/SONAR/CbB. Which is weird, because it's at the very least a really good product, and for some of us it's perfect. Who knows why it didn't "strike a chord" with the masses? Maybe because it's geared more toward musicians, writers and producers who actually know what a chord is, and that's not the way the masses are going. @Craig Andertonused to say on the old forum that he actually did have real numbers, that is, sales figures on all the DAWs, but it was proprietary information and so he couldn't divulge it to us. So we users never had an opportunity to judge SONAR's popularity using the only metric that matters in the world today: money. Craig, if you happen to read this, perhaps now that you don't work for Gibson, and now that SONAR's sales figures are receding in the rear view mirror (because it's no longer for sale), maybe you could give us a clue just how our DAW ranked in the past several years. All that said, I've tried a number of other DAWs, and while I think I could get on pretty well with a few of them, I still like CbB the best. I would have continued to buy upgrades, but I'm more than thrilled I don't have to. It being free doesn't bother me at all. 🙃

If you've encountered me in this forum you may know that I'm not somebody looking for the lowest possible latency in an audio inteface. For one thing, I'm always on a tight budget. I also seem to be comfortable using guitar amp sims at higher latency than many other CbB/SONAR users. So I'm just not into investing in a fancier interface than the one I already have. Except for one thing. I'm currently using a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. It's a first generation model, and CbB reports round trip latency in the range of 10ms (I haven't looked lately). I like it -- the preamps and stuff. But I kind of hate the mixing software ("Mix Control") that comes with the Focusrite driver. I've never been comfortable using it to create headphone mixes. Mostly I work by myself as engineer, producer, player and singer, but I expect to be doing a few things with some other folks this year, and I'd like to be able to generate two or three different headphone mixes and I want something that's intuitive and easier to use. I've heard that the 2nd generation 6i6 comes with a vastly improved Mix Control, but I haven't seen it in action. So my two-part question is: Is 2nd gen Mix Control way better than 1st gen? And (part two) is there another interface in the 6i6 price range with significantly better (easier to use) mixing software? Thanks for reading!

I think this is only true for the very first time you install CbB. Once you have it on your drive, future installations are upgrades only -- not the full installation, thus not the full installer exe. If you already have CbB and you want to save the installer you'd have to uninstall the one you have and get it again through Bandlab Assistant, following the instructions above before installing. Please let me know if I've got this wrong.

If such a brave new world takes shape, geeks like me (and probably you, @Craig Anderton), will move to applications like Reaper, and there will probably be more of them in a future environment in which the "majors" are trying to tether their customers to subscriptions. As you know from the old forum, we don't like no steenking subscriptions...

It would be great to have these advantages, but in my decades of playing clubs, parties, bars and auditoriums I have not seen this kind of support more than, say, a quarter of the time. I have spent my own money to provide vocal monitoring for my own band, but we were never a name act and facing competition from DJs and internet jukeboxes connected to cheap but powerful sound systems it hasn't been economically feasible to carry a very elaborate sound system, not to mention somebody qualified to run it. But my point wasn't meant to be about live performing. I only mentioned that as a way of saying that we may at times go overboard in our quest for the lowest measurable round-trip latency in our DAWs. As I have said, I admire those with the ability to hear the difference between 7.3ms and 4.9ms, but sometimes good enough is... good enough.

@Cactus Music Johnny - I was just following one of your tutorials yesterday. I've been meaning to check them out for years, but haven't gotten around to it. The one I'm looking at is not a video, but it's excellent. I recommend everybody check out your educational stuff and I hope you'll leave them up.

I haven't done this myself, but I suggest you take a look at this post from the old SONAR forum. Also read the replies, including mine where I ask for an explanation.🙃

@synkrotron and @Starship Krupa - Good to read your lengthy and thoughtful exchange. I feel I know you both now -- at least more than I did. And intelligent points from both of you. My take: Despite Meng's vision and Noel's and the Bakers' dedication, a free product might not be sustainable in the long run, and if we are going to learn anything as complex as a full-featured multitrack digital recording, mixing and mastering program, we want it to be around and supported for a long time (plus we all got burned in November 2017). So it's not surprising that some of us want to understand what the prospects are, although I don't think it's quite fair to look for assurances. This is life, after all. Shit happens. For this reason I am happily using CbB and rooting for its continued success, but remaining poised to jump over to one of two other DAWs if anything goes wrong here in Cakeland. PS: Andy, you and I commented on each others music in the old Songs forum. Your stuff is foreign to an old rocker like me, but now that I've read all this from you I am going back and listening again. Diggin' it.

I do that every day (the singing out of key part). Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.

Problem is who gets to decide which features are the best ones...

Thanks for the info, Jim. I didn't even know about latency when I started out with Cakewalk and the M-Audio card, but if it had been too high I wouldn't have been able to work, so I would have had to learn something then. When I had to get a new interface was the first time I seriously thought about latency, and I had no idea what I should shoot for. I'm not technical, and I asked everybody on the old forum. I think I read some stuff you wrote back then, telling the basic facts, but milliseconds didn't mean much to me. Eventually I figured out that if sound travels through normal air at normal temps at 1100 feet per second, that's roughly one foot per millisecond, so (for me) anything less than about 15ms is acceptable -- that is, I can easily play in time using amp sims, as 15ms is approximately the equivalent of standing 15 feet in front of your amp on stage, which I have done all my life. In some ways I envy people who can hear the difference a millisecond makes, but I can't, so my life is a lot easier. I'm currently using a first gen Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, and it's all I need. Apparently the 2nd gen box is faster, but I don't know how much or if it would be worth it to get one. EDIT: I took a look at RME USB 2 interfaces on Sweetwater and they start at about five times what the M-Audio 2496 cost (same for their PCI devices). They have more I/O and more features, but they are no faster than that old card. So that's why the nostalgia for the good ol' days. 🙃

I'm with you on this. My first interface was an M-Audio Audiophile 2496, It was a PCI card, and the latency must have been low, because I used amp sims and I never even thought about latency. It cost $99 and was completely trouble free the whole time I had it. I had to get a USB device when I got a new PC, or I'd still be using it. Audio on the PCI bus must be inherently faster (I assume), so I wonder why somebody isn't making an affordable "simple audio card," as you say.

If the BT plugins are available in your X3, they are on your system somewhere. Track 'em down and then open your Cakewalk by Bandlab, press "P" for Preferences and enter the correct path in "VST Settings."

I would say that's pretty decent. Sound travels about 1,100 feet per second, or 1.1 feet per millisecond. So if your RTL is 7.3ms, that's like standing on stage with your amp about six and a half feet behind you. I have played most of my life without any big problems under worse conditions than that, so if I were getting the same RTL as you I wouldn't spend any money trying to do better. If your 44VSL is not stable, of course, then it might be time for something new. I think I got this right, but I am notoriously bad at math, so somebody let me know if my numbers are wrong.🙃

This was a hot topic a few years ago. In the end it seemed that some people found it really helpful, and others said it seemed to have no effect. In any case, it doesn't seem to hurt anything to disable those drivers/controllers.

You shouldn't have to unplug your audio interface to use CbB. Are you using the latest driver? Or maybe the latest driver is for Win 10 and you need the previous driver.

So what? Exactly! One way to get a good master is to hire an experienced mastering engineer with a rack full of expensive signal processors. Another way is with something like Ozone. No shame either way, and no guarantees either way that your master will have commercial success.

Sony bundled CD Architect with Sound Forge, and then so did Magix. I have Sound Forge 9 and 11. It's in 9 for sure, don't remember if it's in 11, but maybe you could find a new and legal copy of SF9 on Ebay or somewhere. After you've mastered your tracks and assembled your CD, I would recommend using a commercial manufacturing service for the final production.

Yikes! There are 3100 pages on the SONAR forum alone, and that's just the titles of the topics. It starts in 2005, when the current version is 4, and sure enough, the very first post is someone's wish list for version 5. We are never satisfied, it seems.🙃