Reproducible bug: Synth automation not automatically visible

[GreenLight]

Happy new year everyone!

After using Cakewalk for 20+ years I found out I have been using synth (VSTi) automation all "wrong" these years!? ?‍♂️I've always just used MIDI CCs and the MIDI CC learning features of every VSTi synth... but it turns out, you can just select the parameters for a synth... IF some things are correctly configured.

It's the IF that threw me... ? and maybe there's a bug? Read on...

1. If I manually select the synth track like below...

2. ...I get the synth parameter list in the Edit Filter (hooray! this is revolutionary... for me! ??

3. THE WEIRD PART: But looking through the "Insert Soft Synth Options" in the synth rack, then the option "Display Automation On" has actually always been configured to "First Synth Audio Track". So, in theory, step #1 would always be performed automatically. But this has never worked for me (I would've found this long ago if it did), and still doesn't!

I don't think my expectations are wrong, as the PDF manual states: "Any automation data you create for this synth is displayed by default on the Synth track for this synth."

What gives? Does the above setting work automatically for you guys?

Thanks for any input!

Edited January 8, 2023 by GreenLight
Adjusted tags

[scook]

3 hours ago, GreenLight said:

Does the above setting work automatically for you guys?

Yes, it has worked as expected for decades.

I just tested with Arturia CS-80 V3 VST3 format. and it worked too on CbB 2022.11 build 21 on Win 10 Pro 22H2.

[GreenLight]

24 minutes ago, scook said:

Yes, it has worked as expected for decades.

I just tested with Arturia CS-80 V3 VST3 format. and it worked too on CbB 2022.11 build 21 on Win 10 Pro 22H2.

Thanks for reporting in, @scook! I figured it's probably just my system...

So you automatically get the instrument automation set to the audio track for all synths you insert?

If I insert any synth, here Arturia CS-80 V (v3.10.1) VST3 in a blank project, I get the above.

What could be wrong, why doesn't it work here? I'm on latest CbB 2022 .11 build 021 on Win 10 Pro 21H2.

[scook]

Here is a video dragging the Arturia CS-80 V3  v3.10.1.1843 VST3 into a project and the result in a floating synth rack view

[GreenLight]

Brilliant, thanks.

AHA! ?

Try un-checking "Ask This Every Time" and see what results you get... for me it works as in your video if I have it checked, but it stops working if it's unchecked.

[GreenLight]

Could anyone please confirm this bug on their system: if "Ask every time" is un-checked, then the setting to display automation on "First synth audio track" will not work?

Thank you so much! ?

Edited January 2, 2023 by GreenLight

[57Gregy]

I have never touched that "Display Automation on" setting in 20 years of Cakewalking, and it still pops up in the Insert menu as the default. It may not have had it way back then. Music Creator Pro 24 doesn't. SONAR Home Studio 6 does.
The "Ask This" box refers to the entire Insert box, not just the "Display Automation" setting.
If you have the settings the way you want, you can uncheck that and never see it again, unless you want to change things.

[Glenn Stanton]

if i have the "ask each time" checked = ok, works as expected.

if i uncheck it, then add same synth, the options for the automation track are not showing up:

 

with it checked when adding synth:

 

 

[GreenLight]

2 hours ago, 57Gregy said:

I have never touched that "Display Automation on" setting in 20 years of Cakewalking, and it still pops up in the Insert menu as the default. It may not have had it way back then. Music Creator Pro 24 doesn't. SONAR Home Studio 6 does.

Haha, same here, I have never touched "Display Automation On" before!

2 hours ago, 57Gregy said:

The "Ask This" box refers to the entire Insert box, not just the "Display Automation" setting.
If you have the settings the way you want, you can uncheck that and never see it again, unless you want to change things.

Exactly, it refers to (or should refer to!) the entire Insert box, including the "Display Automation On" setting.

But according to my tests, and kindly enough also test by @Glenn Stanton (see his post above) it actually seems to ignore the "Display Automation On" setting. I would assume it works that way on your system as well?

And that's the reason why I have missed this totally basic VSTi automation feature for 20+ years, and have instead been fiddling with MIDI CC in all my projects...  Ahh, I have to laugh instead of cry. ?

(And that obliviousness is what made me wish for the ability to rename MIDI CC automation envelopes. It would still be useful at times, but it's no longer that urgent. )

 

[GreenLight]

2 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said:

if i have the "ask each time" checked = ok, works as expected.

if i uncheck it, then add same synth, the options for the automation track are not showing up:

with it checked when adding synth:

Fantastic, thank you Glenn! ??This has been driving me mad.

Pinging @msmcleod for a reproducible bug, please see my first post (and the image in this post) and Glenn's a couple of posts up.

Edited January 4, 2023 by GreenLight
Added link

[Xoo]

Try using Simple Instrument Tracks which I do all the time, have ask every time unchecked with these options:

and always (OK, there are a couple of exceptions with old DXi synths IIRC) get the automation options available on the SIT.

[GreenLight]

Thanks for the tip, @Kevin Perry. I haven't used simple instrument tracks that much to be honest, I think find that it gets too messy with all that mixed automation on a single track, plus some reduced flexibility. But maybe I should give them another try...

But first: let's fix the bug with classic split instrument tracks.

[GreenLight]

Pinging ? @msmcleod with a reproducible bug.

Short story: in the Insert Synth dialog, the setting "Display Automation On" does not seem work if "Ask This Every Time" is unchecked (this presumes split instrument tracks). For more info, see above. Thanks! ?

[msmcleod]

@GreenLight - I can reproduce the issue.  We'll look into it.

[sjoens]

I've had mixed results with it checked, so...

After reading this I unchecked the box to see for myself. Now the Synth dialog window doesn't even open. How do I get it back... please! ?

To open the dialog box when the option is unchecked, click the Insert Soft Synth Options button in the Synth Rack view toolbar.

And it works the same for Simple or Split synths.

[GreenLight]

31 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

@GreenLight - I can reproduce the issue.  We'll look into it.

Lovely, thank you! ?

I can't believe I'm the first to report this... it must have been like this for ages. But I guess everyone else likes dialog boxes? Or as Kevin said, maybe most people use Simple Instrument Tracks nowadays? ?

[msmcleod]

The issue is now fixed and will be available in the next release.

[GreenLight]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

The issue is now fixed and will be available in the next release.

Wow, that was fast, thanks a lot!

I accidentally discovered this bug together with the entire instrument automation feature! This will be something of a game-changer for me.

[GreenLight]

2 hours ago, sjoens said:

After reading this I unchecked the box to see for myself. Now the Synth dialog window doesn't even open. How do I get it back... please! ?

To open the dialog box when the option is unchecked, click the Insert Soft Synth Options button in the Synth Rack view toolbar.

Hehe, open the Synth Rack and click this button:

?

[sjoens]

... as per my link. 

Just one more feature that requires a google search to figure out.