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Extreme Lag/Latency Using Hardware Synth


Ratthew

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Hi,

I currently have a Korg Minilogue XD synth hooked up to Cakewalk and am experiencing some heavy lag issues. 

When I send MIDI notes to the Korg from Cakewalk, all is fine until I begin turning dials on the synth, when I get extreme latency issues and the audio takes up to several seconds to catch up. When playing notes by hand and turning dials, this does not happen.

I should note that slow dial movements do not trigger the issue, it only happens when I speed the movements up a bit.

I've attached my driver settings, and an audio clip where I change the filter gradually and then quickly, where you can hear the issue clearly.

Would really appreciate some help if anyone knows a solution!

Thank you :)

Screenshot2024-02-02174020.png.940ea3d68bb30448158ef9992f608d03.png

 

Edited by Ratthew
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How is the synth connected to the computer?
Do you have an audio interface or are you using the computer sound card?
What is a Minifuse? Did you try the other MIDI driver? There are 2, so whichever one you're using, switch it to the other one and see if the performance improves.

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Seems most likely an issue with the Korg as the the interface and CbB would not be aware in any way that a knob s being turned on the synth. Possibly  the Korg is generating controller messages that are being received by the track and echoed back out to the Korg. Make sure the Input Echo button is disengaged (you might need to disable Always Echo Current MIDI Track in CbB Preferences) or configure the Korg not to send controller messages from its panel.

Incidentally, I don't think it has any bearing on the current issue, but one oddity I see is that that your ASIO buffer is set to 256 samples (applicable each way, in and out), but the reported I/O latencies are much lower than that. This reported value comes from the driver and can never be smaller than the buffer size. That misreporting shouldn't matter in real time, but your record compensation is going to be way off without an appropriate Manual Offset entered in Sync and Caching.

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11 minutes ago, David Baay said:

(you might need to disable Always Echo Current MIDI Track in CbB Preferences)

Unfortunately this didn't work, but you did lead me to the solution! On the same page, I disabled 'Controller' recording, which has fixed the issue.

As for the ASIO buffer, how do I choose an appropriate value for the Manual Offset? I currently have enabled 'Use ASIO Reported Latency'.

Thanks!

 

 

 

image.png

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That shows your Driver Mode is MME, an outdated protocol for PC audio. The Arturia should have native ASIO drivers. Change the mode to ASIO and see what you get. It should work much better overall and allow you to run a lower buffer size.

Also, I would suggest you lower your MIDI Prepare Using buffer to 50ms. 500ms was the old default before the MIDI buffering code was revised. Values that high should not be necessary any more, and might actually cause issues.

Edited by David Baay
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My only options for driver mode (MIDI tab) are MME or UWP, however my driver mode under playback is set to ASIO. Does this seem correct?

I've lowered my MIDI Prepare Using buffer to 50ms too, thanks!

Screenshot2024-02-02194248.png.66e7f8f7c2b7dd0722b78930f232a746.pngScreenshot2024-02-02194259.png.8a2cffd8af4f4d821c720e02db75eac6.pngScreenshot2024-02-02194104.png.d2f8a56a4f76fa3fa62bdaff226b58b5.png

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Sorry. Glanced to quickly; thought you were on the Audio Driver page. MME is correct for most MIDI interfaces.

As mentioned, Manual Offset is on the Audio > Sync and Caching page. Easiest way to set it accurately is to download and run the free CEntrance Latency Tester with an audio cable patched between an input and an output on your interface. Then set Manual Offset as the Measured Latency minus Reported Total Round Trip.

https://centrance.com/driverfolder/CE_LTU_37.zip

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It seems correct to me.  Whenever possible I use ASIO as the audio driver mode.  However, for the MIDI driver mode I always use MME. UWP is a newer standard, but it doesn't work for my gear.

As for your solution (not recording controllers), it sounds to me like the progressive latency in the 2nd half of your sample recording might be caused by controller data going from the KORG to Cakewalk and then being sent back to the KORG and somewhere along the line there was some heavy duty data jam.  Not 100% sure; that just what it sounded like to me. 

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5 minutes ago, David Baay said:

As mentioned, Manual Offset is on the Audio > Sync and Caching page. Easiest way to set it accurately is to download and run the free CEntrance Latency Tester with an audio cable patched between an input and an output on your interface. Then set Manual Offset as the Measured Latency minus Reported Total Round Trip.

Perfect, will give this a go very soon and report back!

4 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

As for your solution (not recording controllers), it sounds to me like the progressive latency in the 2nd half of your sample recording might be caused by controller data going from the KORG to Cakewalk and then being sent back to the KORG and somewhere along the line there was some heavy duty data jam.  Not 100% sure; that just what it sounded like to me. 

You are correct :) as David Baay also pointed out! I never would have thought of this as I've only had my synth a few weeks.

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1 hour ago, David Baay said:

Then set Manual Offset as the Measured Latency minus Reported Total Round Trip.

So CEntrance gives me 892 samples, which taking away my Total Roundtrip of 829, leaves me with 63. Sound about right for Manual Offset?

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8 hours ago, Ratthew said:

So CEntrance gives me 892 samples, which taking away my Total Roundtrip of 829, leaves me with 63. Sound about right for Manual Offset?

Yes, and  that's more on the order of what I would expect for a 256-sample buffer on a USB interface. The Total Round Trip of 240 samples in your screenshot made no sense.

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1 hour ago, John Vere said:

Those latency figures in first screenshot look correct to me. 

As noted, it's showing only a 240-sample RTL for a 256-sample buffer. That's just not possible. With no hardware latency, the I/O buffers alone will give you 512 samples round-trip latency. It's typical for hardware/firmware/drivers to add 200-400 samples to this. Your own video shows a reported RTL of 742 samples with a 256-sample buffer. That's likely missing the ADA converter latencies which will typically add another half to a full millisecond each way although some manufacturers are better about reporting everything to the DAW.

I'm not sure why the RTL in the screenshot was initially so far off the mark. The 829-sample Reported figure mentioned later by the OP sounds more like it.

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20 hours ago, David Baay said:

I'm not sure why the RTL in the screenshot was initially so far off the mark. The 829-sample Reported figure mentioned later by the OP sounds more like it.

Cakewalk was automatically setting my Record Latency Adjustment Device to FL Studio ASIO, instead of my interface. Possibly that was the cause for the bad measurement?

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Yes that’s the first thing to check after setting up a new audio interface. 

Check all the audio settings and make sure only the interface is the device showing. 
FL is what we call an invasive driver which is installed with software. magix and Steinberg also do this. You remove them in the RegEdit app under software ASIO. 

Edited by John Vere
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25 minutes ago, Ratthew said:

Cakewalk was automatically setting my Record Latency Adjustment Device to FL Studio ASIO, instead of my interface. Possibly that was the cause for the bad measurement?

Yes, that makes sense. You might want to go into the Registry and remove that virtual ASIO device for good measure. Just delete the FL Studio folder under

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO

There is no risk associated with doing this; I do it all the time for Realtek and other apps that add these bogus drivers, but if you're concerned, you can export the registry key before making changes.

 

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