Melodyne does not erase deleted clips.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

17 hours ago, RexRed said:

When Bruce Springsteen sped up the tape to the song, "Hungry Heart" to make his vocal pitch sound higher, maybe the producers might have suggested to him to go take some voice lessons to improve his vocal range...

See how inane this logic is?

I think you'll find they would have slowed the tape down thus lowering the pitch of the song, recorded it and then returned the tape machine back up to normal speed. But a tape machine that has varispeed and is designed to operate that way, it's not going to make it break down.

Yeah maybe the band should have lowered the key a couple of semitones but this was fairly common in the days of analogue tape , you still have to have good intonation though. What did he do when performing it live ? Most pro singers do have vocal coaches and a good one  could probably add those extra few notes to a singers range over time. 

The insane logic would be chopping the tape into pieces and then splicing it all back together hap hazardly then wondering why it got stuck in the machine and won't play properly.  

Edited November 13, 2023 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[RexRed]

On 11/13/2023 at 5:51 PM, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

It's a poor workflow. You are doing a post production during the actual recording. 

I'm not sure what you mean when you say " Melodyne corrupted line "  ?

I have no problem insulting anyone if it makes them get it right. It's a crutch if you're using it on every line just after you've recorded it. No legit singer would want to work like that, it's an art and a craft to coax the best performance from a vocalist.  Maybe call up a local pro studio and ask them if you can sit in and observe a session so you can see what a proper workflow looks like when working with singers.  

You just completely contradicted yourself, saying doing post production during the actual recording is a poor workflow and then saying you will insult people so they get it right.

Well, going back and retracking a line is "getting it right" even if it is in the post production, post mastering post any other process in its journey to the fans. Especially if you just sung the line 10 minutes ago, put Melodyne on it and Melodyne corrupted a syllable. You sing over the take and sing over it and over and over till you "get it right" and move to the next issue. You certainly shouldn't  say, "Well, I am at the post production phase so leave the line sounding like crap."

Then it is you who deserves the insult, till you get it right.

Melodyne is known for corrupting lines so the workflow is go back and redo that line. And Melodyne does not necessarily corrupt lines because they are out of tune, Sometimes it will corrupt a line simply for elongating it even in the slightest to align it in time.  Melodyne corrupts lines because it cannot reprocess certain sibilants well. Just like Alexa sometimes has no clue what you are saying even though you say it ten times as clearly as humanly possible. 

The proprietary digital resampling happening under the hood with ARA2 is still a mystery, how much is it down-sampling the audio? This process in itself can corrupt certain sibilants. The bottom line is when a sibilant gets corrupted, a trained ear can instantly detect that kind of distortion. My music gets 2.6 million listens a month and over 100 million listens in total and I make it completely myself except for a few samples here and there. You are talking to a pro studio with over 40 years of recording under my belt since all the way back to Cakewalk for MSDOS.

So I have been told to go take voice lessons and consult a "pro studio" just for asking that Melodyne integration into Cakewalk get fixed... 

And the simple logic, in order to make Bruce Springsteen's voice higher and faster, the tape would have to be sped up. Even if it was slowed down prior, it was sped up to gain the effect.

Edited November 15, 2023 by RexRed

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

7 hours ago, RexRed said:

Melodyne is known for corrupting lines so the workflow is go back and redo that line. 

It is all starting to make sense now. Your workflow is something like.

1.   Sing line badly 

2. Process line heavily with Melodyne

3. When Melodyne has to hammer the audio so much it becomes an unintelligable robot voice, drop in again until it you do a take it's algorithm can cope with.    

That seems like a very lazy workaround Vs getting it right at source.  Recording several takes top to bottom,  dropping in any lines / phrases that still could be improved , then doing a final comp before taking it it into Melodyne to finesse, nudging pitch and timing here and there. Not nuking the recording to the point it breaks and removing any traces of human performance. 

Do you work this way with other recorded instruments ? Guitars etc ? Blasting them with Melodyne every few licks as you go ?

7 hours ago, RexRed said:

You certainly shouldn't  say, "Well, I am at the post production phase so leave the line sounding like crap."

 We don't. We get the best performance we can during the recording phase, prior to post production.  So it already sounds good before we even touch tools like Melodyne. We're polishing it with a soft cloth to make it shine, not taking a hammer to it to bend it into a diffrerent shape.  

8 hours ago, RexRed said:

 My music gets 2.6 million listens a month and over 100 million listens in total and I make it completely myself except for a few samples here and there.

Congrats. it says you have 32 listeners a month of Spotify. Interested to know where the  other 2,599,968 are finding you  ? 

I get about 10 - 12 monthly listeners on Spotify but my music is increasingly on TV , so effectively millions of people every month will have heard it should they watch certain shows.  More music in more TV shows = more royalties.

8 hours ago, RexRed said:

You are talking to a pro studio with over 40 years of recording under my belt since all the way back to Cakewalk for MSDOS.

Back in Dos days I was using the far superior Music-X on the Amiga as my seqeuncer which sadly meant I had to switch to PC around the Win95 era when Commodore went bankrupt. My first version of Cakewalk was 3.01 which was rubbish compared to Music X but it was clear the PC as a platform was going to be unstoppable and Cakewalk was very popular. 

8 hours ago, RexRed said:

So I have been told to go take voice lessons and consult a "pro studio" just for asking that Melodyne integration into Cakewalk get fixed... 

These are true solutions rather than a quick fix sticking plaster. 

[Glenn Stanton]

'crunch' 'crunch' <popcorn eating sounds> 'crunch' eagerly awaiting the penile shot to see which one is bigger 'crunch' 'crunch' <more popcorn eating sounds> 🙂 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

18 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

 eagerly awaiting the penile shot to see which one is bigger  🙂

Then Rexred's YT channel might have found a new audience member. 

[Xoo]

On 11/15/2023 at 1:12 AM, RexRed said:

put Melodyne on it and Melodyne corrupted a syllable

I've read reviews of Melodyne and frequent various audio forums, and have never seen this mentioned apart from you by you.

I'm not saying you're not experiencing something, but it does seem rather odd that it's not reportes widely, which suggests there may be something in your workflow, or recording chain or Windows environment that causes this.

I'd be trying to find out why I suffer from something that isn't a fundamental problem with Melodyne.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

6 minutes ago, Xoo said:

I'd be trying to find out why I suffer from something that isn't a fundamental problem with Melodyne.

I think it's just a case of applying so much heavy correction that it starts to sound screwy.  Best to use any of these tools sparingly and finesse it manually, but If you use it on auto with a high degree of processing there will inevitably be unwanted side effects and weird artifacts.   

 

[RexRed]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:01 AM, Glenn Stanton said:

'crunch' 'crunch' <popcorn eating sounds> 'crunch' eagerly awaiting the penile shot to see which one is bigger 'crunch' 'crunch' <more popcorn eating sounds> 🙂 

You think that Mark's drivel was a "great idea"?

I know who my friends are.

A lot of petty people who "think that they think that they think" error piled on top of error. Rather than to "know that they know that they know". The very rudiments of the scientific approach.

I have come here with serious minded, critically studied and detailed rational regarding the issues I have experienced first hand with Cakewalk and Melodyne integration. 

I am met with armatures and trolls who have one skill only, insults, and they are bad at that too.

I am done here with this issue, I have relayed the message. I see no need to reason with ignorant people.

The popcorn eating kangaroo court here at this forum makes this an unwelcome place for intelligent peopled to converse...

1) Deleted takes do not delete in Melodyne and 2) Cakewalk takes do not mute themselves in Melodyne, period.

Please fix it Cakewalk.

Edited November 28, 2023 by RexRed

[Glenn Stanton]

9 hours ago, RexRed said:

You think that Mark's drivel was a "great idea"?

I know who my friends are.

when i see arguing on the internet my mind races to the Special Olympics memes from far away and long ago... but it did keep the thread from going to sleep...

that said, your workflow is different than most other people, so it doesn't matter to a lot of people to fix this over other things that need fixing. i agree it should be fixed, and to wit, i'm not a fan of packing takes into a single wav file when if all things were separate files, this would likely be an easy[er] fix since takes and tracks and clips would all effectively be the same thing - individual files - thus more easily handled with code logic. downside - an even more messy audio folder. then again even with the "reduced number" of files using this approach today, directly managing those files is a crap-shoot, so why do it? legacy is why.

what would be interesting is if you shared all the communications you had with the dev team directly, the back and forth where you documented the issue, suggested workarounds, solutions, value proposition for fixing it sooner rather than later etc. so people would get a sense you were doing more than stomping feet on a thread but were actively engaging the dev and support folks.

so yes, when people start shouting their credentials at each other, there isn't much to do except sit back and watch...

edit: also note - there are a lot of intelligent people on this forum, not just a few. so, you know the idea of "walk a mile in those <footwear of choice>" before assuming. serves me well.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Glenn Stanton