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  1. Thanks for the insight on the Cherry Audio synths Abacab and Alan. They are relatively inexpensive instruments and do come with a good selection of presets. I do rely on the presets because I do not know some of the more advanced techniques yet. There are some good YouTube videos on these synths. 😁
  2. Bdickins wrote: Holy s***! That's highway robbery! You might find this a much better deal: Comment: Thanks for getting my post shut down, how do you like people coming into your posts and dropping stink bombs? I will be skipping over you replies from now on. From the very first thing you wrote in my post it was arrogant and nasty. It doesn't matter if you have any insight if it comes with so much baggage.
  3. Considering what I had to go through to get this all to work, had things been different, right now, I would be making an unboxing video of the two Behringer interfaces and extolling the virtues of these devices on my YouTube unboxing/review channel (even though they run hot as heck...). I still have no idea how these work... And I don't care to figure it all out at this point. Instead, I will be making a "steer clear of Behringer" video. Let them try and deny they did not refuse to send a signal flow diagram, I have it documented in emails that i can read in a video. I will keep these interfaces for now at a loss to myself and replace them with RME devices instead ASAP. And the fact that if you Google this device there is no diagram for it in Google images anywhere on the net solidifies the intent that this is their policy. Maybe I will unload them on Ebay for more than half of what I paid for them. The return window is still open, I could send them back to Amazon. It is not worth packing them up and finding all of stuff that came with them. And, I would only be hurting a third party seller. That is not my style, if i can help it. Behringer, "never again" is my current motto and the mantra I may use in my review of this product, nice click bait for a review title huh? When I get around to making a review video... Personally, I have more important things to do right now. I hope they read this and realize they lost a fan of their stuff. I have zero trust in their company and products now. If Behringer ever wants to make things up to me they need to not just send me an image of their signal flow diagram but also post it online so their "customers" (that they love so much) can also use it to understand how this thing works.
  4. That is a good question Will, I assume Windows has drivers that are being used. In Cakewalk I use ASIO drivers. But there is zero latency (and I mean zero) as if Windows is using some sort of direct sound. In Cakewalk I can send any track or master out to its own output on the Behringer 1 and my Windows audio I send all of that out through the Realtek. That is the loopback, The integrated Realtek audio has no latency. To do that I open my game and/or the chrome browser and/or Windows media player any source that makes sound in Windows (except Cakewalk which goes to the Behringer through main or track outputs.) While a source is open i.e. in Chrome, my games and/or Media player etc... in the Window sound settings advanced sound settings an icon for that source appears there then, I am able to select a direct output for that source. This is where I select the Realtek integrated sound device. Before I was using this method I was using HDMI out though my graphics card, then i would split the HDMI signal through a splitter box and then send that HDMI into a 4k capture card in my streaming computer and the other HDMI went to my computer monitor. I would use VoiceMeeter potato to route all the Windows sources to HDMI out. This method required VoiceMeeter Potato to pull off (that was the only method I could figure out how to use.) There is also a Sony Alpha camera in this mix. Three video sources, HDMI Windows screen capture, Sony Alpha and Logitech Brio the Sony is captured through USB 4k Cam link and the Windows screen capture is captured through an Elgato 4k Capture card and the Logitech Brio is plugged directly into the streaming computer through USB. The problem with that method is I would often lose the HDMI audio signal when starting up my broadcast and have to crawl under the desk and unplug the HDMI splitter and re-plug it in and sometimes even that would not work to get audio to pipe into the capture card and then into OBS. Windows on my streaming computer did not always like to give me that audio feed in OBS. That was a pain. Running the Windows/game/chrome browser audio out of the Realtek and into the Behringer 2 with direct audio cable lines solved that problem. I would run my gaming microphone into a phantom power box and then direct into the audio in on the Sony Alpha for gaming and into the audio interface for Cakewalk streams, that was a mess having to change and set up each time. At one point I was using two microphones and a desktop mixer, That just made things even more complicated. Crazy complicated... And there is no latency issues at all between my game video that is fed to the capture card through the HDMI splitter and the audio that is looped out of the Realtek into the Behringer. They both arrive at OBS studio in the streaming computer in perfect sync every time. What drivers Windows is using is a mystery to me. I like to refer to them as direct kernel drivers but that is, I'm sure, not the correct name. My microphone an another anomaly. A huge anomaly... How to do that? Well, the dilemma was how do I use a microphone to both talk during the video gaming stream and also have that same microphone for use for tracking in Cakewalk? And that microphone has to have absolutely zero latency so it is in sync with my Sony Alpha video stream. So the audio lines up with the Alpha video and video is not out of sync with the Sony camera video feed. This was by far the hardest part to figure out. Arming a vocal track in Cakewalk during a broadcast presents a huge logistical hurdle. I plug my Audio Technica microphone into Behringer 1 because I need it in the workstation computer directly in Cakewalk that was apparent. So I can track, then I take the direct out signal of the microphone out of Behringer 1 and sent it to Behringer 2 then there is absolutely no latency in the microphone. Remember, Windows audio is not going into the Behringer 1 but through the Realtek. Then I have my microphone signal and and the Cakewalk playback where I can pipe them out to separate outputs on the Behringer 1 they run out of Behringer 1 and into Behringer 2 with their own separate inputs. Then I have separate volume knobs on Behringer 2 to control these sources Mic and Cakewalk master. When tracking during a broadcast I need to silence certain mic sources. But this allows me to do the broadcast with one microphone and not have to use two and have zero latency in most cases. The mic always has a direct out to Behringer 2 and it can be use for gaming steams also. Always set up for immediate use. The switch is after tracking, the vocal audio wave file in the track plays out of a different output. This is all still a new set up for me so half of the time I am not sure how it really is working but it does and not having a signal flow chart for the Behringer made this all exponentially harder to accomplish. This is why am am so floored with Behringer. But it works for now and I am not sure why or how. But everything is in sync and I only flip a few switches and I am ready to broadcast. After pushing numerous buttons wildly and turning knobs this way and that and plugging stuff arbitrarily into the box it suddenly worked without knowing how the signaled was really flowing. There is probably a way to do all of this without using the Realtek but that is a secret that Behringer is unwilling to part with. I can't wait to get this Behringer stuff out of the loop and work with a company that does really care about its customers. I have this all diagrammed out in Adobe illustrator in a signal flow chart I created. But I only share that with "partners" (just kidding). 😁
  5. My gripe is the signal flow diagram and Behringer can go jump in the lake until they furnish me with one. Until then I will advise any and all people within my sphere of influence to never buy their products. That is my gripe, and the fact that they have all of these other unsavory issues circling around their company only solidifies my dissatisfaction toward them. As for Roland, my old Quad Capture (that sill works after 10 years and never got hot once) in the driver dialogue box under the help dropdown menu there is an "about" field that if you click on it up pops a signal flow diagram chart. The one I posted above. Neither do I need to go writing fruitless emails to Roland's tech support, protesting endlessly on the internet for a diagram nor do I need to search through my filing cabinet get out the manual and flip to the very last page to find it.. Roland was thoughtful enough to furnish me with one that I can study each time I go into the driver dialogue menu on my computer. They genuinely care that their customers can use their product without hassle.
  6. I do not give a Rattus norvegicus' gluteus maximus if you have thing for Berhinger also. It is no epidermis off my pecans.... Patents last 21 years ... copyrights last, as a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. That is actually over a hundred years that copyrights last. I was talking about patents AND copyrights which as I said both have similar laws like "fair use" and attribution attached to them. Behringer sued by Roland/Boss March 1, 2005 Leading electronic musical instrument and equipment manufacturer Roland Corporation has sued Behringer International GmbH and its subsidiaries to enforce Rolands trade dress, trademark, and other intellectual property rights in and to the famous guitar effects pedals manufactured, distributed and sold by Rolands division, BOSS, as well as other Roland products. BOSS has long been an industry leader in the design and manufacture of guitar effects pedals, recording equipment and other musical instrument accessories. In addition to their unparalleled sound, the BOSS pedals feature a unique combination of aesthetic design elements which have served to establish BOSS as an instantly-recognizable brand and to distinguish BOSS pedals from pedals manufactured by others. The Complaint, filed in the United States District Court for the Central District of California, alleges that at the January, 2005 NAMM industry trade show, Behringer announced the launch of a line of guitar effects pedals which replicate the distinctive design features of the BOSS pedals with such painstaking detail that the Behringer pedals are nearly indistinguishable from the BOSS pedals. Roland contends that this is no coincidence, and that the overall look and feel of the Behringer pedals is intentionally designed to confuse consumers as to the origin, sponsorship or affiliation of the Behringer Pedals, and to capitalize and profit from Rolands success, its impeccable reputation and the goodwill that it has developed over years of hard work. The Complaint alleges that in an effort to gain industry acceptance of the cloned pedals, Behringer falsely assured industry retailers that the Behringer line of pedals was approved and endorsed by Roland. Dennis Houlihan, President of Roland Corporation U.S. commented: “Imitation is not flattery, and is far from sincere, when the subject is Rolands valuable trade dress. Roland has expended monumental effort and substantial amounts to create and promote the design elements of its BOSS line of guitar effects pedals. Behringers replication of the famous BOSS trade dress has caused extensive damage to Roland and its reputation, and Behringers false claim that Roland has endorsed Behringers unadulterated infringement is unconscionable.” Comment and then there is this: Behringer tried to sue Dave Smith Instruments and 20 forum users for libel The budget gear company filed a suit last year for what it claimed were “false, defamatory, and libelous” statements made on the Gearslutz forum. Music Group – the umbrella company that owns budget gear specialist Behringer, speaker brand Tannoy and several other music tech brands – last year sued synth company Dave Smith Instruments together with 20 anonymous Gearslutz forum users for libel and product disparagement and lost, according to a report at CDM. According to filings from the San Francisco County Superior Court examined by CDM, Music Group launched the suit against DSI after one of its engineers described its CT100 cable tester as a “blatant copy” of a similar 6-in-1 testing product made by Ebtech in a 2017 thread on the Gearslutz forum. A further 20 anonymous forum users were added as defendants in the $250,000 suit for making “false, defamatory, and libelous” statements, ranging from general complaints about Behringer ‘copying’ other products or using business practices described by one poster as “underhanded”. The suit – which was filed in June 2017 – was rejected by the court, who ruled that the lawsuit was a ‘strategic lawsuit against public participation’ (SLAPP) intended to censor Behringer’s critics by burdening them with the cost of a hefty legal defense. The court ruled that “all of Music Group’s claims against it arise from activity protected by the anti-SLAPP statute, because all of the claims are based on statements that were made in a public forum on an issue of public interest.” Although DSI got the case dismissed, the company is reportedly still seeking to recoup over $100,000 in legal costs from Music Group. Behringer, which recently released its own version of Moog’s classic Model D synth, has doubled down on its strategy of cloning vintage synths over the past few months, showing off replicas of the Sequential Circuits Pro-One, Roland TR-808 drum machine and ARP Odyssey at this year’s Superbooth show. Last week, CDM reported that Music Group was considering legal action against Chinese gear news site Midifan after it called Behringer a ‘copycat’ and ‘shameless’ for its synth cloning practices. Comment: Creating their own unique line of foot pedals must have been simply too hard. and It seems the "false, defamatory, and libelous” statements made on the Gearslutz forum were, TRUE... Here are companies who innovate and make their "own" synths... REAL synth enthusiasts... https://www.vengeance-sound.com/plugins.php https://www.uvi.net/falcon.html https://refx.com/nexus/
  7. x Yes indeed and the prices are reasonable for their synths that can do a lot. The presets are a good starting point. The Mercury 4 is my first Cherry Audio synth purchase. ...other than the Surrealistic MG-1 Plus Synthesizer which was/is "free" The MG-1 is nice but the Mercury 4 is much more powerful. The Mercury 4 has velocity sensitivity but I do not think the patches are linked to any dynamics so there is no change in the sounds no matter how hard you hit the keys. But the velocity shows up in Cakewalk recordings. Not sure how to edit that so perhaps at lease subtle volume changes can be heard while playing the Mercury 4 patches.
  8. This thing sounds really crisp and has a lot of presets and the price is not that bad, 40 bucks introductory price. And no I don't work for them. If you are a collector of poly synth type pads this thing is really well done. https://cherryaudio.com/instruments/mercury-4 Modeled after the Roland Juno 4 I bought the synth anthology from UVI and it only has about 12 presets and did not come with the actual synth laid out like this. I am impressed by this product... ...also check out this if you have not heard of it. By Big Fish Audio Momentum https://www.bigfishaudio.com/momentum.html Momentum is free (I am sure most of you already have this) if not then download it and then Big Fish Also gives a bunch of FREE Loops too. https://www.bigfishaudio.com/free-loops.html If you buy the free loops (they are free) with each loop pack you get a 15% off on any purchase promo code. That is about 6 promo codes. Their violin/fiddle pack is only 20 bucks on sale now and with the promo code it is 16 bucks Get the Free Loops first before you get the violin so you get the promo codes. REALLY well played fiddle parts are nearly impossible to find on the internet. And this pack comes with hundreds of melodic fiddle/violin parts in many keys and tempo and they can be modified in Momentum. https://www.bigfishaudio.com/detail.html?1&36&1::::::::::::violin:535703 this is also a huge deal right now https://www.bigfishaudio.com/detail.html?7&24&1::1713:::::::::B1713::529572 and this is new too and on sale https://www.ueberschall.com/en/product/341/Acoustic-Guitar-Trio
  9. Copyright and patents work under the same principles as does open source and attribution laws. I bought my first version of Cakewalk for MS DOS many years ago, then i purchased Cakewalk on up on through the shiny CD disk of Cakewalk 6. Then the warez sites came and it became easy to just find a good torrent for Cakewalk and not pay at all for it. This hurt the company immensely. Sonar X1 and X2 were pirated like crazy. Then came Platinum and I decided to come clean on everything. I paid over nearly 500 for Platinum and also bought the lifetime updates. Then I came clean on Native Instruments and bought their Collectors Edition version. And I own all of my waves plugins. Izotope and Fab Filter. I do not use any plugins or programs that I do not own. I have invested tens of thousands of dollars into supporting instrument and sample makers. And if i use a sound effect even an ambulance horn, wind, a swell or a bell that requires attribution I give attribution and note it wherever possible who and where the samples came from. I am a little guy living off a meager income, not a billion dollar company and if I can pay for "all" of my stuff and give attribution wherever necessary contact major corporations and ask for fair use permission, so can Behringer. Then I notice this posted by a tech rep "Uli" from Behringer on another online forum and I copied and I am pasting it here. Hi Ralph, thank you for your comment. Since I have been tagged here, please allow me to respond. Synth clones have been around for decades, both as hardware and software versions. Why should we not be allowed to enter the market? All these analog circuitries are free for anyone to use as none of them are patented anymore. Unfortunately your understanding about “open source” for hardware is incorrect. There is no such license for hardware. How many companies use the Ladder filter? We do understand that we are a fierce competitor as for many decades we have invested in innovation related to efficiency and factory automation. Our loyalty belongs to our customers and our goal is to make products as affordable as possible. However I strongly believe there will always be a market for boutique makers and we both can coexist as the customer base is different. Today, we’re collaborating with many developers from smaller companies who either join us as employees (Nashijima San from Korg, Luigi Scarano from Fingersonic) or as collaboration partners like Rob Keeble from AMSynth and many more. We invite everyone to join forces in our synth mission. Uli Comment: Copyrights span a century not decades. Yes you can enter the market as long as you give attribution like everyone else. This line is what struck me, "Our loyalty belongs to our customers and our goal is to make products as affordable as possible." Comment: Really? Or does your loyalty belong to your "partners" and your shareholders? I will spread this issue far and wide until I get a signal flow diagram for this toaster oven they sold me.
  10. Attribution is actually part of international copyright and patent law... but a small group of open source designers are not going to go after a company like Behringer. And Behringer banked on that fact. A company with resources like Behringer should not be stealing opens source designs without at least giving credit to the many opens source designers who freely devoted their time to the project. So you are incorrect, yes, the law does agree with me but who has the money to pay the lawyers? Patents usually last 21 years (correction). I happen to know copyright law... I work with companies like SMG and WMG... on nearly a daily basis dealing with copyright issues. I have written over 600 letters to the largest music companies in the world concerning copyright matters. I know what attribution means. Attribution means that you have to somewhere on the packaging or in the manual give credit for the designs to the open source people, sometimes it even entails listing their names and the organization they all work under and even websites and social networks where they can be contacted. That is what an honest person does. Otherwise it is stealing/piracy... Okay?
  11. It is stealing if you don't give attribution.
  12. I am sorry if i appear stupid on this but could someone please explain how these preamps are used? I will ask a few really dumb questions and show how little I really know about this but, Don't these audio interfaces already have preamps? Are they too weak for some sources or is it best to just leave the volumes down low on the interfaces and let the volumes on the outboard preamps do the lifting muscle? Are these used not so much for the front and back inputs but are you all referring to using them for ADAT instead? The Behringers have Midas preamps but the RME would not have those. For over 1000 dollars I would expect the preamps on the new Fireface to be even better. Also the Behringers have a PAD button for really loud inputs and a instrument/line toggle button. So you would place these between the ADAT SPDIF out and before the inputs into the ADAT? I don't really understand how you are using these preamps. Another really dumb question is, on these new Behringers, I have noticed that I will get a signal through the devices the clipping lights will blink even when the volumes on the front of the device for the input are down all the way? Why is this happening? They really don't work to shut signals completely off. This has thrown me for a loop. Another reason why a signal flow diagram would have been nice. Thanks in advance for helping me figure this all out! You people are really fantastic! And just to put this out there? Isn't Behringer the company that has been using everyone's designs undercutting the people they reverse engineer them from and now that they are the largest company in the audio landscape they won't even release a signal flow diagram... I do not think I like Behringer. I would rather pay an ethical company like RME much more. A company that invents and develops its own technology rather than a company stealing ideas from others and using it to undercut others with a price that does not include the R and D that went into designing the technology in the first place... Besides, who here has had a Behringers product die after the first year or so of use? I personally have... As you can tell, them not supplying a signal flow diagram has really burned my onion... Am I wrong about this? Or is this just saying it how it is?
  13. Wow! Thanks Lynn and Jack, all the best to you and Cakewalk still rules!!! 🎶👍🌟
  14. BTW, I have stopped using VoiceMeeter Potato altogether, I do use the virtual cables that come with it. I prefer letting Windows Settings handle my "virtual" routing. I send my Windows browser and gaming audio out of the Realtek to inputs on the Behringer streaming interface. That is what I call a "hardware" loop around. Then my Behringer interface is not put into some odd loop mode that robs other functionality away from it. I don't really know what is going on because I have no signal flow diagram. So, keeping things as relegated and simple as possible is the best way to insure things run all the time without any latency and without fail.
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