Melodyne does not erase deleted clips.

[David Baay]

Not really any value in debating point by point since neither of knows exactly what's going on under the hood, but I'll just broadly say:

- I'm pretty sure that any audio quality problems with Melodyne output have mostly to do with inherent limitations of the technology of editing pitch/formants, and very little to do with bit rate.

- I've previously tested and verified that if you don't make any editing changes to a Melodyne clip and just bounce it to a new file, it will continue nulling to near silence (like -120dB) with the original file even after a dozens of generations. If you make changes, audio downstream of an edit will tend shift position by a few samples such that you have to re-align it (with sub-sample precision) to null with the original, but in the absence of that inverted-phase reference, there is no audible effect on unedited parts of the clip.

- The issues around punching and comping with Melodyne appear all to be related to passing the muted/cropped/faded/clip-enveloped state of a clip to Melodyne and refeshing it every time an edit is made so that it always displays and processes only the parts of the clip(s) that would be audible in the absence of Melodyne. It's not 100% clear that this is purely a problem with CbB and not a limitation of ARA (which is a Celemony-developed technology IIRC), but given that the problem can be worked aorund as described it does seem possible the Bakers could fix this without changes to ARA. They may just not have anticipated all the ways in which a user might edit clips after an ARA FX had already been applied, and that some of those edits might be the result of automatic slip-edits applied by punching, comping, auto-crossfades, etc.

 

[RexRed]

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

Not really any value in debating point by point since neither of knows exactly what's going on under the hood, but I'll just broadly say:

- I'm pretty sure that any audio quality problems with Melodyne output have mostly to do with inherent limitations of the technology of editing pitch/formants, and very little to do with bit rate.

- I've previously tested and verified that if you don't make any editing changes to a Melodyne clip and just bounce it to a new file, it will continue nulling to near silence (like -120dB) with the original file even after a dozens of generations. If you make changes, audio downstream of an edit will tend shift position by a few samples such that you have to re-align it (with sub-sample precision) to null with the original, but in the absence of that inverted-phase reference, there is no audible effect on unedited parts of the clip.

- The issues around punching and comping with Melodyne appear all to be related to passing the muted/cropped/faded/clip-enveloped state of a clip to Melodyne and refeshing it every time an edit is made so that it always displays and processes only the parts of the clip(s) that would be audible in the absence of Melodyne. It's not 100% clear that this is purely a problem with CbB and not a limitation of ARA (which is a Celemony-developed technology IIRC), but given that the problem can be worked aorund as described it does seem possible the Bakers could fix this without changes to ARA. They may just not have anticipated all the ways in which a user might edit clips after an ARA FX had already been applied, and that some of those edits might be the result of automatic slip-edits applied by punching, comping, auto-crossfades, etc.

 

I know it is a very complicated thing considering that sometimes you have file takes than have had clip gain edited and sometimes clip gain is enabled whilst recording over a Melodyne take. ...and then you get the dreaded disk full error and truncated project files that won't open.

This area needs to be looked at.

...and the, "inherent limitations of the technology of editing pitch/formants, and very little to do with bit rate"

It may have everything to do with bitrate.

When you slice the wave into smaller bits it would seem that pitch algorithms would be more accurate.

I have done testing and found that the pitch algorithms do not improve if you go to a higher khz rate. You get the same amount of wonky tones and obliterated syllables.

So it must be the bitrate that would improve the pitch "technology".

Now Melodyne must remain faithful to the khz when it resamples a project file into itself because Cakewalk can only handle one khz for all project files.

But Melodyne can and does cheat on the bitrate conversion and does not follow the project preferred bitrate but chooses its own bitrate as I have been told it cannot work with 32 bit files at all, yet. My question is, can it even work with 24 bit files?

So it would seem that bitrate is the frontier and forefront of better technology for editing pitch/formants.

One could enlist AI but AI would just be rebuilding and making stuff up and not staying true to the ray tracing of the higher precision of bitrates.

Edited September 19, 2023 by RexRed

[David Baay]

5 hours ago, RexRed said:

When you slice the wave into smaller bits it would seem that pitch algorithms would be more accurate.

Sampling and DSP don't work that way. The only thing that matters in reproducing and processing pitch information is the sample rate; and for purposes of accurately reproducing a vocal pitch and timbre (i.e. the mix of harmonics of the fundamental pitch) you just need to sample at rate that's twice the highest frequency you care about. A quick Google says female voices don't produce harmonics above about 17kHz, so 44.1kHz has that completely covered even without anti-aliasing filters.

Bit depth is how precisely you measure the instantaneous amplitude of the sample and only determines sigal to noise ratio and dynamic range; it has no bearing on the accuracy of pitch and timbre analysis and processing. So there's really nothing to be gained from doing the FFT processing to change pitch at 32  or 64 bits vs. 16 bits. The more important thing is how you manage the harmonics that make up a voice's timbre to maintain that timbre as you change pitch, and the algorithms used to extract and process attack sounds vs. sustained tones and pitch bends. The sometimes gross alterations of timbre that Melodyne and similar tools cause are orders of magnitude greater than the miniscule and largely inaudible gains in harmonic distortion and S/N ratio you get from recording and processing at higher sample rates and bit depths. Those gross errors are due to shortcomings of the algorithms that are determining exactly how the audio should be altered achieve a natural-sounding result, not the precision of the alteration process. Audio stretching algorithms have the same issues, regardless of what sample rate and bit depth they're operating at.

Machine learning may well help make breakthroughs in this area.

[RexRed]

Just back to say the latest and perhaps last Cakewalk update did not fix this problem...

I will not go into to explaining this problem again, it is detailed further up in this thread.

I have been attacked on this forum, had my threads closed simply for using Melodyne and told I must be a terrible singer by "trolls". All I am asking is that Cakewalk developers fix their integration of Melodyne in a reasonable way. I am sure Melodyne integration into Cakewalk is very complicated. But having to open and close Cakewalk dozens of times in the course of a project is getting unbearably aggravating.    

This problem is a real issue for me to open and close my Cakewalk project dozens of times to get the Melodyne buffers to erase an old take.

It also does leave me with a dilemma, do I want to put money out for a new version of Cakewalk "Sonar" with the same exact problem?

I would need to have assurances that this particular problem is fixed.

The current version of Cakewalk is perfect for me other than this problem.

Now, I would purchase a new version of Cakewalk for the simple sake of refinements and tighter performance alone.

But considering, I have encountered this problem, detailed it in at least two threads and they have spanned over at least 6 program updates and this problem has not been fixed. And considering, I spend almost as much time in Melodyne as I do in Cakewalk, a tiny voice in the back of my head is asking, I wonder if other DAWs have better Melodyne integration?

Please fix this problem... 

I am now stuck not wanting a "new" version of an old problem...

Notice the date on this thread April (I have made threads in the past about it as well) and now it is November, and this problem is blaringly, still broken.

Do I want to buy a new version of Cakewalk with this same exact problem? No...

Edited November 3, 2023 by RexRed

[RexRed]

On 9/17/2023 at 11:43 AM, David Baay said:

It's not among the fixes listed for the latest EA update, and I verified it's still broken. Will likely have to wait for the new Sonar.

EDIT: Somewhat good news: I just found an easier - and completely effective -  workaround. Right click the track and Duplicate Track with all options enabled except Linking. All the sections of the clip will display in Melodyne and sound as expected in the new track. It should be a perfect copy of the original in every other respect so you can just delete the original.

EDIT 2: Correction: You have to take both actions to fix it: Slip-edit the clip, Undo, and then Duplicate. Duplication alone does not change anything.

THIS, is an ugly fix for something that should be a priority to developers.

I have to do this every time I punch in a new vocal take?

I am one of those people who bought lifetime updates, and this request has not been fixed and I look at the list of things that got fixed update after update... and "added", new features, that I will never use.

I am trying to be as considerate as possible and I am a patient person, but, I am truly disappointed with the last update, and rather than me boil about it I figure it is time to voice my gripe.

Edited November 3, 2023 by RexRed

[John Vere]

I’m glad you updated as I remember this thread but I missed that last post by

@David Baay

Back in September you had me worried about Melodyne and since then I have avoided it but now I see after reading David’s post that your theory about Melodyne and bit depth are invalid.  
This is good news for me as I need to record some vocals. 
Please only take this as  positive feedback. I truly think you need to rethink your workflow and do like all of us do and render the clips when done. 
 

For what it’s worth this is my current workflow.

I record 3 different tracks none stop. I build track one into as good as it can be .  Using parts of 2&3 if needed. 
Then I edit for timing , level and a little bit of pitch. To do this I chop my vocal track into sentences of the lyrics.
I have assigned keys

Z = Open Melodyne 

X= Render and close editor. 
 

I can work real fast this way.

Like you I sometimes find Melodyne trashes a certain phrase. 
I use that second vocal track to record again. Not a lane, lanes suck. I’ll re sing the whole line. I’ll re try Melodyne on the new clip and if it works then I render it and delete the main vocal track clip and drag the new one into its place. 
Im glad I can carry on with this workflow with out worrying about degradation of the audio. 

I for sure will hear garbage that Melodyne can produce and the only solution is to redo that part until Melodyne doesn’t barf on it.  Or use other methods. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by John Vere

[David Baay]

5 hours ago, RexRed said:

THIS, is an ugly fix for something that should be a priority to developers.

I have to do this every time I punch in a new vocal take?

It's a workaround; take it, leave it or avoid it as John suggests. Everyone has his/her pet bug that they encounter all the time because of some particular workflow they use frequently.  I have some going back a decade or more, so I'm both sympathetic and not. ;^)

Development priorities are based on a number of things, including the number of independent reports of the problem. Yours (and the formal one I made to the Bakers to help you out) are the only two I know of.  I would wager not many other people are trying to punch in to a Melodyne clip. Most will do one or the other, not both. This is actally the kind of thing I try to avoid. The more non-destructive edits you pile on a clip, the more likely you are to get a weird result from a combination that was never anticipated or tried by anyone during development and testing, and when one of those edits involves two complex 3rd-party technologies (Melodyne and ARA) all by itself, I am not surprised when this kind of issue crops up.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

10 hours ago, RexRed said:

THIS, is an ugly fix for something that should be a priority to developers.

It's not a fix , it seems you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the workflow Meldoyne was designed around. Lets go back in time to 2001 when Melodyne first came out. It was a standalone application that you had to upload or record your audio into so it could do it's thing.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/celemony-melodyne

A couple of years later we got Melodyne Bridge & ReWire so we could transmit our DAW audio directly into Melodyne instead of importing / exporting between two separate Apps. 

In 2011 we got ARA ( audio random access ) which meant we no longer had to "transfer" our audio tracks into Melodyne manually- Melodyne could just "access " them with no other transfer necessary which gives a feel of it being more like part of the DAW than the seperate App it actually is. Over all those years the reccommended workflow has always been something like :

1. Record parts

2. Comp parts into complete performance or section

3. Transfer comped audio section into Melodyne

4. Perform non -destructive edits with Melodyne

 5. Apply edits destructively and transfer corrected audio back into DAW

Whilst the methodology has changed from separate programs, to bridge plugins, and then to ARA this workflow has remained unchanged. From what I have read you are trying to shoehorn an immediate/online workflow into what is essentially an offlne process by a separate App.

Now I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice if it just  "worked" as you think it should and we had rock solid glitch free instant swapping of audio freely between Meldodyne and Cakewalk regardless of where we punch in / out etc. But the truth is it's not really designed to do that and if you've been using it since 2001 like I have and been through all those various stages mentioned above plus all the changes to Cakewalk over those 20+ years you'd probably understand why it doesn't work that way and avoid the inevitable problems it causes.       

Maybe they can invent ARA 3 and make this a reality but for now you're either going to have to change your workflow and make a comp of your vocals  and work with Melodyne once you've finished tracking ( i.e. how it works in professional studios ). Or alternatively use a pitch correction plugin like Autotune that operates in real time so you can make as many changes as you want on the fly becaause the audio is not being transferred to a different App to be processed.    

Either way the goal would be to deliver a more fully finished track to Melodyne for further enhancement, and not as part of the recording process. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[David Baay]

3 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

Maybe they can invent ARA 3 and make this a reality but for now you're either going to have to change your workflow and make a comp of your vocals  and work with Melodyne once you've finished tracking ( i.e. how it works in professional studios ).

Great summary and explanation. But based on my testing, and the effectiveness of using Duplicate Track to get the desired result, I think it's within the Bakers' ability to address this without enhancing either Melodyne or ARA. As the OP suggested early on, CbB just needs to 'refresh' what's being presented to Melodyne after applying slip-edits due to punching in. Duplicate Track does that so the Baker's should be able to make it happen transparently within the existing track.

[RexRed]

4 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

It's not a fix , it seems you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the workflow Meldoyne was designed around. Lets go back in time to 2001 when Melodyne first came out. It was a standalone application that you had to upload or record your audio into so it could do it's thing.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/celemony-melodyne

A couple of years later we got Melodyne Bridge & ReWire so we could transmit our DAW audio directly into Melodyne instead of importing / exporting between two separate Apps. 

In 2011 we got ARA ( audio random access ) which meant we no longer had to "transfer" our audio tracks into Melodyne manually- Melodyne could just "access " them with no other transfer necessary which gives a feel of it being more like part of the DAW than the seperate App it actually is. Over all those years the reccommended workflow has always been something like :

1. Record parts

2. Comp parts into complete performance or section

3. Transfer comped audio section into Melodyne

4. Perform non -destructive edits with Melodyne

 5. Apply edits destructively and transfer corrected audio back into DAW

Whilst the methodology has changed from separate programs, to bridge plugins, and then to ARA this workflow has remained unchanged. From what I have read you are trying to shoehorn an immediate/online workflow into what is essentially an offlne process by a separate App.

Now I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice if it just  "worked" as you think it should and we had rock solid glitch free instant swapping of audio freely between Meldodyne and Cakewalk regardless of where we punch in / out etc. But the truth is it's not really designed to do that and if you've been using it since 2001 like I have and been through all those various stages mentioned above plus all the changes to Cakewalk over those 20+ years you'd probably understand why it doesn't work that way and avoid the inevitable problems it causes.       

Maybe they can invent ARA 3 and make this a reality but for now you're either going to have to change your workflow and make a comp of your vocals  and work with Melodyne once you've finished tracking ( i.e. how it works in professional studios ). Or alternatively use a pitch correction plugin like Autotune that operates in real time so you can make as many changes as you want on the fly becaause the audio is not being transferred to a different App to be processed.    

Either way the goal would be to deliver a more fully finished track to Melodyne for further enhancement, and not as part of the recording process. 

I have been using Melodyne since its inception into Cakewalk and then V-Vocal long before that.

A comparative thing is effects. Should we have to freeze effects into our wave files in a destructive way?

I never freeze Melodyne into my wave files. This way, even months after a song has been "completed" I can still go in and tweak vocal lines here and there.

Melodyne should not be destructive as well, Especially the thought that I could have to go back in and resample the exact same clip to change it again with Melodyne.

It is quite evident... Cakewalk is not telling Melodyne when an edit has been made to a take. It should be fixed, simple as that.

I am quite certain that is the way other DAWs are handling takes. It is bug and rather than me having to constantly restart my Cakewalk project to refresh Melodyne the program should be doing this action internally when a section of Melodyne has been deleted or muted under a new take.

Then we don't need to jump hoops, copy and delete takes and whatever Band-Aid is placed on this bug.

It should just work right. Melodyne had many more issues that were fixed and this one was overlooked, the programmers need to go in and fix this as well.

Issues that I brought to their attention, like, the when you would punch in, even if the Melodyne track was muted, it would still play. Remember that one? Well I made threads (like this one) until it was fixed. Well, this problem is still here.

There was a time when Melodyne was only applied to small clips well, I place it on every vocal track and on even some of my instrument tracks as well.

  When, under every case, a Melodyne take is muted or deleted, it should no longer appear in the Melodyne track. 

In an ideal scenario, we should be able to place Melodyne on every take in a track and only have the unmuted comped takes appear in Melodyne.

Edited November 3, 2023 by RexRed

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

9 hours ago, RexRed said:

A comparative thing is effects. Should we have to freeze effects into our wave files in a destructive way?

It's not comparable though - Melodyne has to take the audio file from the ARA host then run an analysis on it's pitch & tempo etc, and therefore it  isn't designed for real time use. 

FX plugins affect the audio in realtime as they pass through the plugin - A realtime process..no handing off of the audio outside the DAW.

If you want to constantly ping-pong your audio between CbB and Melodyne and drop in and out as though it were a native DAW audio track then I expect you'll get problems. Much better to use a plugin designed to do what you need ( i.e. realtime pitch correction ) than expect one to cope that isn't designed that way then complain when it breaks. Anything will break if you use it in unintended ways.

9 hours ago, David Baay said:

I think it's within the Bakers' ability to address this without enhancing either Melodyne or ARA. 

Maybe so but probably not a high priority for an edge use case.

[RexRed]

4 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

It's not comparable though - Melodyne has to take the audio file from the ARA host then run an analysis on it's pitch & tempo etc, and therefore it  isn't designed for real time use. 

FX plugins affect the audio in realtime as they pass through the plugin - A realtime process..no handing off of the audio outside the DAW.

If you want to constantly ping-pong your audio between CbB and Melodyne and drop in and out as though it were a native DAW audio track then I expect you'll get problems. Much better to use a plugin designed to do what you need ( i.e. realtime pitch correction ) than expect one to cope that isn't designed that way then complain when it breaks. Anything will break if you use it in unintended ways.

Am I to understand that your solution is to just leave this broken? 

ARA is intended, and designed, so Cakewalk and ARA are both aware of the same processes. Otherwise, I would be using Melodyne standalone.

I have 18 extreme Intel I9 cores, 2X3090 Nvidia graphics cards and 128 GB of ram. Now, how exactly is Melodyne intended to be used?

ARA is designed exactly for this ping-ponging of audio when it is utilized correctly.

The case here is that is it not being utilized as it was intended to be used.

I have exhausted a lot of time and effort here pointing this out and it is getting to be a broken record and I have been put under the microscope for simply wanting this fixed. I am about to go live on YouTube with Cakewalk in the next few minutes... Is this state of the program and having to constantly restart Cakewalk the best way to showcase Cakewalk and its amazing features? Just sayin... And, should the new Cakewalk Sonar version also inherit this broken interface?

 It would be nice to have some sort of of affirmation by "the bakers" stating, "we're working on it".

Or perhaps, this is a conversation better expressed on my YouTube channel in front of other DAW users considering a switch to Cakewalk or on the forum of a competitor?

And it is preposterous to assume that ARA has left Cakewalk unable to inform Melodyne when part of a Melodyne track has been muted or deleted.

Or, let's just leave it broken so ping-ponging (as you call it) does not work right.

THIS is a prime reasons to stitch to another DAW or not to switch to Cakewalk.

My intention here is to improve Cakewalk so it works as it is intended to work.

I complained for an insufferably long time when mute did not work on Melodyne tracks at all. When you would go to record over a Melodyne take it would sound even if the track was muted. That was confusing hearing a previous take sound when trying to punch in on a new take even when it was muted. Now that works correctly. And I got a lot of flack at the time for suggesting that mute should actually work...

Well, when a track take is muted or deleted it should not show up in Melodyne as if it is still there.

I am not sure why some people think Melodyne should sit in a state of being perpetually broken in Cakewalk. It is not fun being the person to point this out and take the flack and listen to the rationale as to why it should not work right. And when update after update does not fix this, then maybe YouTube is the place to highlight this problem. I need this fixed now so I don't have to explain to the world why I have to constantly restart Cakewalk in the middle of a live streaming session. I don't intend to make an issue of this problem on YouTube out of consideration... I have thousands of dollars of broadcast equipment so I can lay down tracks live while broadcasting. Consider this friendly but repeated request a heads-up rather than a criticism, as I have been using Cakewalk since Cakewalk for MSDOS.

I kinda know how it should work.

Edited November 4, 2023 by RexRed

[John Vere]

Sorry it’s just not broken for anyone else.  Only you.  I follow the instructions and watched the videos.  They are using other DAWs and seems like the routine is to render and move on. 
It’s all about completing a task and moving on.  A tidy project is a happy project.  
 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

10 hours ago, RexRed said:

Am I to understand that your solution is to just leave this broken? 

No the solution is to use the right tool for what you are trying to do.  Probably one of the Auto-Tune-alike plugins. Take it into Melodyne when you're done recording and comping. Not during.  Why not trial some different ARA host and see what happens ?  Make a video about it.   ( genuinely interested to see what happens ) 

 

 

 

[Glenn Stanton]

popularity has its price - i'm guessing a large number of people want a "live" Melodyne version...

i'd like a version where i can use my keyboard to assign notes, but i'm ok with it working as-is for now as well. plus, i have several "live" pitch products i use for "fixing" things on the fly to test if a take is worth keeping or not, or the singer needs some confidence 🙂 (and if the side effects of pitch correction aren't too bad, then i know later in the editing process, things will likely work out). 

[RexRed]

3 hours ago, John Vere said:

Sorry it’s just not broken for anyone else.  Only you.  I follow the instructions and watched the videos.  They are using other DAWs and seems like the routine is to render and move on. 
It’s all about completing a task and moving on.  A tidy project is a happy project.  
 

It IS broken for everyone else, please read this thread where the problem is detailed before making sweeping assumptions.

Rather than moving on with your tidy project you could actually test this out.

And there is a  fix for this just like there was a fix for mute not working.

I do not mean to throw this problem into the transition between Cakewalk products but, I did request a "fix" for this before there was any mention of a new Cakewalk and other "new" more esoteric features could have taken a side seat so that this broken, yet vital feature, could have been fixed.

And btw I have encountered this broken feature on other computer systems and it has persisted for a couple of years.

Thus why this is the second or third thread that I have asked as nicely as I can for this to be fixed. 

[RexRed]

3 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

No the solution is to use the right tool for what you are trying to do.  Probably one of the Auto-Tune-alike plugins. Take it into Melodyne when you're done recording and comping. Not during.  Why not trial some different ARA host and see what happens ?  Make a video about it.   ( genuinely interested to see what happens ) 

 

 

 

I appreciate you doing this research, I am sure this compilation took a lot of effort to put together.

The old adage, "just because everyone else is doing it" seems to apply here.

Sure, Melodyne takes effort to fully implement into a DAW and wouldn't it be nice if Cakewalk was the leader in this regard rather than no better than the others.

Cakewalk probably already is the leader in Melodyne integration, but there is still a bit more to go. I am just pointing out one specific way that integration is broken. So you can all pile onto me or we can try and get this fixed so it works right.

Apparently, I put Melodyne through rigors that most of you don't, or this problem would be clearly evident to you all as it is to me.

I will make a friendly and constructive video about it and link to it here. I will keep the video up until the problem is fixed and then make it private once it is fixed. You can all test it out on your systems and you will see that, yes, you all have this problem too and it is not very good one...

I refer to this problem as "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" you will see why.

Please be nice in the YouTube comment section, keep it constructive or I will delete them. 😊

Edited November 4, 2023 by RexRed

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

3 hours ago, RexRed said:

Apparently, I put Melodyne through rigors that most of you don't, or this problem would be clearly evident to you all as it is to me.

That's your issue right there. 

My wife needs  her car fixing every few years because she rides the clutch and it wears it out to the point it needs replacing. I on the other hand have never needed a new clutch in any of my cars despite doing considerably more mileage.  I understand how clutches work and what will cause them undue  wear so I drive accordingly in order not to break it.   

Is the car manufacturer at fault or is it my wife's fault ?

Edited November 4, 2023 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[John Vere]

I most certainly have read all of this thread. And to re cap.
You claim Melodyne doesn’t erase deleted clips. It most certainly won’t until you render the regional effect back to normal.

Your only objection to this is your belief that rendering will degrade your audio quality. This apparently is not the case as clearly explained by @David Baay  Did you not learn anything from that ? I most certainly did. 
So you are alone with an issue you created for your self by trying to do something that was never part of the way things were designed.  
The simple solution is to get over your paranoia about rendering. 
For your own satisfaction run some experiments and try null testing as David has done. That would be time we’ll spent and you could get back to work. 
signing off , JV 

[RexRed]

 

Thanks to the bakers at Cakewalk for fixing the "deleted clip" problem.

(CORRECTION: After further testing, the doubled blobs still occur even when a clip has been deleted.)

There is one lingering problem that I detail in this video. (CORRECTION: Still two problems exist.)

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by RexRed