Q about Yamaha AW1600 and CbB

[iRelevant]

I recently got hold of an AW1600 which I'm trying to use in conjunction with CbB. I have a few questions, which I hope someone familiar with the device can help me with.

1. Is it possible to use it as a control surface with CbB in W7 v W10 ? I see that back in the day it was usable with Sonar Producer v4.0, and also have a Sonar preset in it's menus.

2. Is there any way to deal with the *.AWS format ? Some kind of conversion utility ? I'm able to access the AW1600 via USB as is, but the resulting files from takes on the machine seems a bit confusing and fragmented. 

3. I miss the original CD that came with the machine. Does anybody know how to get hold of the disc or an ISO image ? And whether there are any useful tools on it ?

Thank you. 

PS. Interested in hearing if anybody else is using these type of "old skool" machine in conjunction with CbB, and if so in what way. My plan is to dump the outline of the song to the machine, and work "out of the box" for multiple takes of gitar, keys & vocal ... before reimporting the outcome of this doodling back into the DAW. I'm trying to avoid risking ending up being distracted with DAW / Computer related issues during the critical recording phase.

[Edit] Judging from the old forum, use of the AW1600 doesn't seems widespread. Also most discussions, refer to external dedicated web sites and forums which are abandoned. I found the support on Yamaha's website for vintage equipment rater limited. Manuals and Firmware upgrades. However I found that there seems to be some newer generic USB driver for W7 and upwards. Looks like this is needed for Sonar/CbB to recognize the device. Haven't gotten around to trying it yet though. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by iRelevant
Adding new information

[mark skinner]

 I've asked the same question in multiple forums with no good results.  I've got an AW16g that I bought new when they first came out .  No usb so probably an earlier version of the 1600.  It's completely silent and great for portable recording , but a "pain" for any editing.  I use mine as a mixing board ,  just for all the inputs .  It's lined out to my interface .  After working inside of a pc daw ,  I really couldn't see using it for any other reason .  I believe the majority of the reply's I got was ,  only the "transport functions" would work as a controller ..  These are "GREAT" machines that bridged a wide gap between the analog units and pc daws.   Mine was 1,100. US.  so I refuse to box it up or sell it for nothing.  Good Luck .    Later .... mark

[msmcleod]

From what I've read, it's pretty limited at as a controller. Some say only transport works, others say only the faders work.

I'd recommend giving Azslow's AzController a go. You should be able to "capture" the MIDI messages it's sending and map them accordingly.

Working out what messages to send it back for fader movements might be trickier, but if you find it out then AzController will support it.

[John Vere]

I found the following here  https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-aw1600   

Published October 2005               

By Tom Flint

Yamaha breathe new life into their AW range with USB connectivity,  ( Whoo Whoo) 

It's been a few years since Yamaha last released a digital multitracker in their AW range. In that time the original flagship AW4416 and the mid-range AW2816 have both been discontinued, leaving only the more basic AW16G in production. 

Firstly, the hard drive capacity is now 40GB  ( Whoo Whoo ) instead of 20GB, which means that there's room for a few albums' worth of 16-bit, 44.1kHz projects . ( Amazing resolution!)  40GB is also big enough to cope with large higher-resolution projects, which is handy as Yamaha have added a 24-bit mode too.  the track count is reduced to just eight in 24-bit mode. The sample rate has been left untouched at the CD standard of 44.1kHz. ( Nothing like the best) 

Also in line with some of the competition is the introduction of USB 2.0 facilities, making it possible to back up files directly onto a computer hard drive instead of relying solely on CD-RW as a storage or transport medium. Given that the AW1600 has an onboard sampler, the USB port is also very handy for exchanging sample files, and those musicians who prefer to use software programs to edit their audio will also benefit. It's even possible to run MIDI MTC and MMC signals via USB provided that the driver software found on the included CD-ROM is installed.

One other I/O change from the AW16G sees the replacement of the optical S/PDIF socket with a pair of phono sockets, Yamaha's reasoning being that they are a more commonly used format.

Yamaha AW1600 rear panel houses eight combo jack/XLRs.

One of the main innovations on the new machine is the Pitch Fix tool, which makes it possible to salvage out-of-tune vocal performances.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Cactus Music

[HIBI]

I don't know this works well or not on AW1600 but it may be worth to try for MIDI Machine Control.
USB-MIDI Driver V3.1.4 for Win 10/8.1/8/7 (64-bit)

[iRelevant]

On 3/14/2019 at 11:38 PM, mark skinner said:

[...]  No usb so probably an earlier version of the 1600.  It's completely silent and great for portable recording , but a "pain" for any editing.  I use mine as a mixing board ,  just for all the inputs . [...]

Thanks, I also got an AW16G, it's more the little brother of the AW4416 monster. It functions pretty much as the AW1600, although the latter has superior transport control buttons as well as USB connectivity. It's a quality machine, I got mine as a wreck ... but after cleaning it up it looks pretty good. Will at some point do a cleaning of the faders which are a bit dirty/corroded and don't slide as smooth as they should. 

[iRelevant]

On 3/14/2019 at 11:38 PM, mark skinner said:

[...]

...

Edited March 17, 2019 by iRelevant
Double post

[iRelevant]

On 3/14/2019 at 11:57 PM, msmcleod said:

[...] I'd recommend giving Azslow's AzController a go. You should be able to "capture" the MIDI messages it's sending and map them accordingly. [...]

Thanks for the tip, yeah, I think this is the most convenient way moving forward.

[iRelevant]

On 3/15/2019 at 12:35 AM, Cactus Music said:

I found the following here  https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-aw1600   

[...]

Thanks for the link, I've already came across it doing my research though  I sense some kind of dissing of the AW range here ? As a DAW it's of course totally obsolete, however it is fully usable as a project recorder. My line of investigation here is more one of having a bullet proof recording device for the creative phase, and secondary to what degree this device can be integrated with CbB workflow. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by iRelevant

[iRelevant]

14 hours ago, HIBI said:

I don't know this works well or not on AW1600 but it may be worth to try for MIDI Machine Control.
USB-MIDI Driver V3.1.4 for Win 10/8.1/8/7 (64-bit)

Thanks. This works well, and makes the USB ports recognizable in CbB. Managed to get the transport controls to work for CbB partially, although there was some sluggishness in response time. Need to investigate more the configurations of both CbB and the AW1600. But yeah, it rolls

[John Vere]

Not dissing the device, they were awesome recorders in their day and my MD 8 was very similar to the AW16G with the difference being it used Mini Data disks for storage. I had a very good set up with my MD 8 midi synced to my Atari and my Yamaha 01v mixer. Full automation mixdown etc.  I also had a MD4 track so this gave me 12 tracks of audio and 16 tracks of midi.  Those to this day are still some of my best recordings.  

I think one of the pitfalls with a modern DAW's is all this "unlimited" audio and midi tracks and the zillions of VST effects options.  Amature "engineers" will tend to toss all that in just in a simple song and end up with 40 badly recorded tracks when 8 real good ones might have sounded much better.. With my old system I had to make sure each track was perfectly recorded, there was no turd polishing after the fact so you mindset was different.  The 01V did give me a lot of effect processing power but you still only had 2 effect busses. I also looped in a Alesis   reverb.  I could even do automated mutes to edit out glitches. 

I was very slow to switch over to using Cakewalk but the Atari was doomed to die so I had to get on board. At first I was only interested in the midi but soon learned that audio was much easier too.  But to this day I still keep myself to very limited track count. I could totally get buy with an 8 track and midi unless I was using real drums,, then I'd want 16. 

But I guess my point is - ya you could fight an uphill battle and get the old girl working, I don't see why it wouldn't,, but if you think it through, there's nothing that machine can do that you can't do with a DAW and the proper audio interface. 

Example is I could use my 01v as a control surface and even rig things up to mix down like I used to but it is just clunky to get it all working properly.  The MD 8 I sold for $50 to a very happy man.  He totally was not into using a computer and has made some very good recordings of his songs he writes.  

I'll add this little story too because it's relevant to your machine. Mine only had the 2 XLR mike inputs like the AW 16. Those I found out were Yamaha's bottom of the line pre's they used in Box mixers. I blew mine up under warranty and because I was a Yamaha dealer I got to talk with the technician at the headquarters in Ontario. We had already had to return another unit with the same issue so he agreed to upgrade my pre amps to the top of the line they used in the Pro consoles. So just be aware that those pre's could be low quality. Your audio interface might have better pre's and A/D which is what is most important overall. 

[iRelevant]

On 3/17/2019 at 5:48 PM, Cactus Music said:

<..]
But I guess my point is - ya you could fight an uphill battle and get the old girl working, I don't see why it wouldn't,, but if you think it through, there's nothing that machine can do that you can't do with a DAW and the proper audio interface. 
[..>

Thanks for the mention of the Yamaha MD4 and MD8, wasn't aware of their existence. Looks like nice machines.

I have of course no intention of replacing a modern DAW with the AW16xx, but the idea is to see how it is to work with ... without easy access to all the gazillions of features that you have these days. See what comes out of it. 

I don't have high expectations for the quality of the pre-amps in this device, I guess they are low-grade as you say. I see it has a digital I/O though, which would make it possible to bypass them with a higher quality pre-amp on a stereo track basis if needed.  For now it's not the quality of recording that is of most interest, rather the work flow. Based on what your saying though, I hope the built in  pre-amps don't blow up anytime soon  

 

[John Vere]

The reason the pre amps failed was a design flaw that some mixers have. You have the XLR jacks which are not a problem for phantom power even if a mike is none phantom.  But you also have a TRS input jack in parallel and if you plug a guitar cable in with Phantom power on it gives the pre amp a 48 volt hit where it doesn't belong. My solution was to plug those TRS inputs with Silicon. so it would not happen again.  Generally it's a good idea to always leave phantom power off until all connections are made. But the switch was very small and hidden on the back. I don't think there was a warning light either.  

As it was I generally used a Mackie 1604 mixer to feed the Yamaha via the Mackies direct outs. I also used this massive 24 ch Soundcraft board that had a million patch points, all XLR.  It was 4 feet wide! 

[iRelevant]

Thanks. Valuable advise. I've always been careful around Phantom power, I have a Digigram soundcard with XLR connectors ... but phantom power on them will be the death of it. I think I will just put Silicon over the Phantom power switch. I see there is just one tiny switch on on the back of the AW16G, and two tiny switches on the back for the AW1600. Thanks for the tip about silicon. Pretty good solution to avoid potential problems. 

Ohhh 24 Channel Soundcraft board  Dreaming of getting hold of on of those some day, unfortunately I think wify will kill me if I get one. Used one for a mixdown once, can't quite recall the model ... F1 ? or something ... paired with a 24 track tape recorder. Remember it had some beautiful sounding PEQ's. 

[John Vere]

The new Sound craft boards are my favourite right now. I have the Signature 10 as my Studio B set up. So nice to leave stuff plugged in.

[iRelevant]

The Sound craft boards looks very nice. I particularly like what I read about the Signature MTK line. Something to think about for the future. Seems very convenient.

[John Vere]

I was going to buy a MTK but I didn't  really need the multi channel interface.  We bought the Signature 10 just for our duo's live performances. We use backing tracks so that's all I wanted the USB for.  It's been mostly stored in a road case but I needed a 3rd DAW set up the other day and set it up. Been working flawlessly for a few weeks now and the pre amps etc are possibly the best I have on hand. I never liked my 6i6 pre's.