Bakers, bread overbacken, or what?

[user 905133]

-- removed --

Edited November 16, 2019 by User 905133
to try to prevent additional misinterpretations

[Starship Krupa]

3 hours ago, Dare Rihter said:

I found already DAW of my choice

Oh thank heaven. One that you pay for, I presume.

I can only hope that it means you will be wasting no more time and energy here.

[Dare Rihter]

2 hours ago, User 905133 said:

To the best of my memory, I never met any Solvenians or heard/read Slovenian.  So I took the opportunity to look up a few things, including Slovenian expressions.  I was wondering if  "Nos ti bom potisnil v drek" or "Gnal ti bom nos v sranje" were idiomatic expressions that are not as rude in Slovenian as they seem to be in English. (Apologies, if I don't have your grammar correct; I don't know your language and relied on a translation algorithm.)

I ran across an article that followed this pattern: Slovenians don't [say] ___________________, they [say] ________________ . Two of the examples given are:

  So I am wondering if maybe you didn't intend to sound so rude in English with a more common Slovenian expression that is not as harsh in your language.

Hi,

in fact, as a non native English/US writer is hard to feel how rude are some phrases for You, honestly, for us these phrases sounds/intended more like fun (ok, I admit, spicy) associations, not something intended to hurt anybody . Slovenia. Most of people are nice and polite citizens (unlike me  ), so all invited to trip around Slovenia, to enjoy beautiful nature (and learn some fancy expressions). We will love You  And I'll buy beer for everyone (of course, if You want to discuss passionate about music, photography, computers, programming,  hiking, driving, astronomy, physics, electronics etc) .

And please, go on, i see progress in understanding Slovenian. I feel almost like home here  

Have nice weekend (Želim vam prijeten vikend).  

 

[Dare Rihter]

1 minute ago, Starship Krupa said:

Oh thank heaven. One that you pay for, I presume.

I can only hope that it means you will be wasting no more time and energy here.

Yes, but, thanks Me, paying for stable product, God does not participate here, as CW programmers obviously presume in their little heaven . And please, @Robert Bone invited me to return after some time, so... Just joking this time

Enjoy The Music 

[mkerl]

31 minutes ago, Dare Rihter said:

. Slovenia. Most of people are nice and polite citizens (unlike me  ), so all invited to trip around Slovenia, to enjoy beautiful nature (and learn some fancy expressions). We will love You  And I'll buy beer for everyone 

 

Yes, Slovenia is a beautiful country, that's very true.

Und an gscheit's bayuwarisches Woizen geht  a imma

Prosit ??

Edited November 15, 2019 by mkerl

[TheMaartian]

11 minutes ago, mkerl said:

Yes, Slovenia is a beautiful country, that's very true.

Und an gscheit's bayuwarisches Woizen geht  a imma

Prosit ??

Kann i mi net versteh.

Zum Wohl! ?

Edited November 15, 2019 by John Maar

[mkerl]

On 11/16/2019 at 12:45 AM, John Maar said:

Zum Wohl! ?

Genau. That's where we come together ??

Zum Wohl, Cheers, Na zdrávje ?

Edited November 28, 2019 by mkerl

[Robert Bone]

Hey folks - we are NOT going to get into character bashing in this or any other thread, from or toward anyone, in any direction.

@Dare Rihter is currently exploring other software, to see if it better meets his needs - He has expressed some views in his frustration, that I chose to not react to, and things had quieted down, but while I was out getting into a car accident (not a real one - just got rear-ended by the dealership's service techs - went in for a $100 replacement of my car's thermostat, and they handed me a seriously thick write-up of repairs needed that, with tax, came out to $9,100 and some change).  Anyways, whilst I was out having fun at the dealership, folks have stirred up some stuff here.

Please, EVERYBODY, knock it off - completely.

I stand by my offer to assist Dare, if desired, if and when he chooses to circle back to try to work through whatever his current/recent issues with Cakewalk are/were.

Even if he chooses not to return, I have sincerely wished him the best of success in his musical travels, and with his musical adventures, because THAT is what all of this, and all of what we do, and how we are, is all about.

SOOOOOO - let's all of us chill out, and try to work with each other in a supportive and positive fashion, there is nothing whatsoever to be gained by getting and keeping our individual or group 'hackles' up.

It is all going to work out - if we can do that, so let's keep MY weekend on as even a keel as possible, so I don't have to wade into dealing with a bunch of folks getting into it.  I know I have way too much stuff to do, that should have been done weeks ago, to want to spend any time having to actually moderate folks and threads.  Kewl?

(oh, also, I am NOT spending the $9,100 for repairs to my vehicle, which is $100 more than the $9,000 I had paid for it, used, in the 1st place.  I may be an idiot at times, but I am not stupid - usually).

Thanks

Bob Bone

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Robert Bone
Finished my story about the car repairs :)

[user 905133]

---removed---

Edited November 16, 2019 by User 905133

[Variorum]

@Robert Bone

If Jesus Christ, Buddha, and Gandhi saw your patience here, they would, in unison, exclaim "Dayum!"

[user 905133]

-removed-

Edited November 16, 2019 by User 905133

[Some Guy]

People here are too damn defensive.  It's pretty obvious that the OP is not a native English speaker.  His writing makes that obvious.  Also, after Mike B responded to the OP, people should have stopped making insulting posts directed at him.  That's called trolling.

Just because someone has something bad to say about a software product doesn't mean they spoke about your mother.  What is with people and their technological Stockholm Syndrome, these days?

[chuckebaby]

3 hours ago, Some Guy said:

People here are too damn defensive.  It's pretty obvious that the OP is not a native English speaker.  His writing makes that obvious.  Also, after Mike B responded to the OP, people should have stopped making insulting posts directed at him.  That's called trolling.

Just because someone has something bad to say about a software product doesn't mean they spoke about your mother.  What is with people and their technological Stockholm Syndrome, these days?

You are telling forum users to...  "stop making insulting posts directed at him" but in the very next paragraph you, yourself insult forum users insinuating they have "Stockholm syndrome" ? 

That sound about right

3 hours ago, Some Guy said:

That's called trolling.

I suppose one could argue bumping a 2 week old thread (that all of us wished had gone away) is trolling in its own.

[JoseC]

46 minutes ago, chuckebaby said:

 

I suppose one could argue bumping a 2 week old thread (that all of us wished had gone away) is trolling in its own.

My thoughts exactly.

[user 905133]

On 11/15/2019 at 9:14 PM, Robert Bone said:

Hey folks - we are NOT going to get into character bashing in this or any other thread, from or toward anyone, in any direction.

. . . 

Please, EVERYBODY, knock it off - completely.

. . .

SOOOOOO - let's all of us chill out, and try to work with each other in a supportive and positive fashion, there is nothing whatsoever to be gained by getting and keeping our individual or group 'hackles' up.    [emphasis added]

. . .

Thanks

Bob Bone

 

Amen!!!!

[Some Guy]

On 11/28/2019 at 5:34 AM, chuckebaby said:

You are telling forum users to...  "stop making insulting posts directed at him" but in the very next paragraph you, yourself insult forum users insinuating they have "Stockholm syndrome" ? 

That sound about right

I suppose one could argue bumping a 2 week old thread (that all of us wished had gone away) is trolling in its own.

No. It's not. 

But glad to see you are into proving my point. Cakewalk community has always been like this. Probably the worst thing about the product. 

Keep carrying that torch. 

I said technological Stockholm Syndrome. People who aren't re tar ded know what I mean. AT the very least, they would consult a dictionary and think about it for a minute. 

Do you really need an explanation, though?

People here do enough to embarrass themselves in defense of bits and bytes here. They don't need me to troll them to expose it. 

Enjoy utopia. I'm out. 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Some Guy

[chuckebaby]

@Some Guy I actually agree with most of your points on this forum and think your a pretty decent guy. But please, if only for a second just stop and take a look at your comments once in a while and see that you love to stir the pot, if only for the sake of an argument. Then when things get ugly, you stir even more.

 

29 minutes ago, Some Guy said:

Cakewalk community has always been like this. Probably the worst thing about the product. 

That's not true. The Cakewalk community has always been about helping other users solve their problems, share new ideas to help make a better product. Not a warm up for the debate club.

Now this is my last comment and probably my last interaction with you for a while. I wish you the best, have a great holiday.

[AxlBrutality]

Rather than make a rant thread of my own (which I was considering before stumbling across this thread), I figured I'd hop in here and piggyback with some thoughts.

Firstly, language barriers are easy to spot, but also easily misinterpreted and mistakenly attacked if one is in a "mood" and the poster in question is also in a "mood".  That doesn't make that user a "troll" or their thoughts and feelings any less valid.  Have some patience.  Some of you have exercised great patience and  understanding ( @Robert Bone being one such character for the most part).  Others, not so much.

Having said that, once in a while there are going to be users that come in here and vent that are genuinely at their wits' end.  I have been at that point and somehow held back.  At one point a few months ago, I actually came here and had a several-paragraph-long rant all typed out and ready to go, and for some reason thought better of it at the last minute.  Some users go through with it and hit that "post" button though.  And you know what?   I think some members of this community, as well as the developers, could be more understanding at times.

As for me, and why I'm here posting this...I sympathize with the OP a bit, and am ready to hit the post button in my own right.

I was at my wits' end a few months ago and was nearly ready to walk away from Cakewalk.  I finished the project I was on (limping through it) and took a couple of months off from making music.  I've recently come back to the same problems and frustrations, plus a few more.....and you know what?   My frustrations are at a boiling point again.

I can probably vent a little more eloquently than OP, but there are a few things that occur to me within this community:

A) Users and developers both here tend to push back instinctively...and hard... against any criticism of themselves or the product

B) Cakewalk representatives and developers, in my personal experience, are far too quick to say "Okay, bye" when someone says they're abandoning Cakewalk...rather than digging deeper into the problems and actually trying to fix them.

C) Nobody wants to actually admit that Cakewalk has a LOT of problems compared to other DAWs, and always has.  There are many, many things Cakewalk does well, don't get me wrong...there's a reason I've stuck with it over the years even while tearing my hair out...but it's not the best functioning DAW overall.  I've known many Cakewalk loyalists of several years that were finally forced to move on.  Personally, I have two reasons for not having done so yet...firstly, I'm not made of money, and can't afford hundreds of dollars for another full-service DAW right now.  Secondly, having been with Cakewalk/Sonar for 16 years and counting, I've been willing to give it 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th chances because I hate change and I'm comfortable with the nuances of Cakewalk....and I don't want to invest a shitton of cash into another product that ends up having that one little stupid thing or another that I need be different or missing.

But as I said, I sympathize with the OP. I get it (the frustration).

I've lost countless hours of work thanks to stability issues, memory leaks, general crashes, and more (which Cakewalk is famous for, outside of y'all's little bubble here).

So yea, I get it.

I've also not been able to use probably about half of my favorite plugins in Cakewalk for months now.  Slate VTM, Eliosis DeEsser, MeldaProductions MAutoPitch, and now most recently, Toneforge Jason Richardson to name a few.  VTM, Eliosis, and Toneforge are particularly work-stoppage level problems.  I also couldn't use LP MB or LP EQ for many months, until another user on here finally gave me the solution they had figured out (that the devs never addressed over the years).  That solution required having me go in and edit language in the coding that, as an end-user,  shouldn't have been my responsibility (or place) in the first place.

So yea, I get it.

I've spent weeks going back and forth between Cakewalk and various plugin manufacturers, caught in the middle of the "everybody point the finger at everyone else" game.  Though, it's pretty interesting when established companies like Slate, JST, and Meldaproductions all vehemently state Cakewalk is the issue, and their plugins do indeed work fine in other DAWs I test them in.

So yea, I get it.

I've spent hours trying to work with Cakewalk tracking down major bugs, only to have them never resolved...or resolved maybe a year later.

So yea, I get it.

I've repeatedly been the one to come across bugs that seemingly no one else has experienced or reported, ended up getting brushed off as a corner case that is never really given many resources, and had to just "live with it"....no matter how much functionality is affected.

So yea, I get it.

I've seen the "tolerant" at best, dismissive and/or deflective tone at worst...that @Noel Borthwick and others at Cakewalk can take at times.

So yea, I get it.

And last but not least, I've also been on the receiving end of the apathetic "okay, bye" from users, customer service reps, and developers when I mentioned looking at leaving for another DAW.

So yea, I get it.

So before people just jump down the throat of people like OP, just remember...there are always a LOT more like him out there (and it might be wise to hear them out when they do speak up...even if they're in a frustrated/angry state and need to vent).  Some of us just usually keep our mouth shut and try to tough it out for longer. Some of us have a bit of an understanding of how some things work, and we do try give Cakewalk and the devs a little bit more leeway.  And contrary to popular belief, when we threaten to leave Cakewalk...some of us don't actually want to.  But we're being backed into a corner where it seems we don't have a choice, and all too often it seems Cakewalk either just doesn't care, or doesn't have the ability or resources to keep up (or both).  Bandlab may have  given Cakewalk a new face, but it's the same community, the same program, the same  everything.  For better...and, more to the point...for worse.

@chuckebaby  As mentioned earlier in my post...all due respect, I disagree and feel that @Some Guy is pretty spot on in his assessment of the community at times.  Painting a royally warm and fuzzy picture of it doesn't make it so.  I may not post much, but I've lurked these and the old forums for many years...it's amazing how defensive regulars can get.

It has gotten much better since the migration, but the underlying tension, unhelpfulness, and unnecessary hostility is definitely still there at times...and this thread is a perfect example of it.

Edited December 4, 2019 by AxlBrutality

[Johnbee58]

Addressed to the OP;

You're complaining about something that is absolutely free?!  The bakers here have more concern for customer service than many vendors who get $$$$$$$$ for their products.

I never once experienced a bug or issue that I reported to Jessie or Noel that wasn't quickly addressed.  IMHO, these people go above and beyond what they would have to to keep us up and running and making music.  Did you ever ask for tech support?  If not, try it sometime.

Respectfully

John B

EDIT-BTW, the few issues I've experienced with CbB have been very small and insignificant, at least so far (as of 2019.11).

Edited December 4, 2019 by Johnbee58

[Starship Krupa]

10 hours ago, AxlBrutality said:

I've lost countless hours of work thanks to stability issues, memory leaks, general crashes, and more (which Cakewalk is famous for, outside of y'all's little bubble here).

I started using this DAW from the first BandLab version, and in my opinion, which is an opinion and based on the experience of this one single user, I thought it was pretty bad. The core version was supposed to have been the next release of SONAR Pro/Plat. It kept crashing and freezing and my Now Time marker would go off on its own journeys, leaving the main UI behind. There was no user manual, only online help, so it was hard to get a handle on this huge venerable beast.

By happenstance I had an account at the old forum, which was populated with shell-shocked veterans of the Gibson deathwatch and who, yes, tended to cop a heavy attitude. I remember being scared that they would chase new users away, but for over 6 months, no new users could join the forum anyway. I had a bit of fun trolling geezers who were convinced that the new owners were going to plant malware in the program to steal information from everyone's hard drives, because otherwise how could they make money by giving away a program that used to cost $300 to buy?? We still get the tinfoil hat people from time to time but not as much. I can't resist, I'm like a kitten with a ball of yarn when one pops up. ?

But I kept an eye on it and by the second release, about 60 days later, it took a big jump in stability, started to load faster, started to load projects more quickly. That's when I sat up and started to take BandLab's experiment in reanimating SONAR with a free subscription license seriously. I used to work in the commercial software industry and that was one quick turnaround.

Bad reputation is a hard thing to change, but whatever, it is what it is. If people want to believe that Cakewalk is still as fragile as it was 2 years ago, all I can do is say that it's definitely not on the 3 computers I use it on and maybe you'll think I'm one of those people who is pushing back against the criticism or whatever. That is my experience.

The point in telling someone that some procedure or plug-in or other works on my Cakewalk system isn't to somehow "defend" a program that I use to record music with or a corporation whose owners and employees I've never met and who still won't make it so I can turn off that stupid number box at the top of the Aim Assist line. The point (when I say it, anyway) is to give someone who is having trouble a little more info to work with. It may not seem helpful, but knowing that it's not broken on all systems helps with troubleshooting. Then we can ask what's different between your system and mine. Sound driver? Video driver? Anything?

11 hours ago, AxlBrutality said:

I've also not been able to use probably about half of my favorite plugins in Cakewalk for months now.  Slate VTM, Eliosis DeEsser, MeldaProductions MAutoPitch, and now most recently, Toneforge Jason Richardson to name a few.  VTM, Eliosis, and Toneforge are particularly work-stoppage level problems.  I also couldn't use LP MB or LP EQ for many months, until another user on here finally gave me the solution they had figured out (that the devs never addressed over the years).  That solution required having me go in and edit language in the coding that, as an end-user,  shouldn't have been my responsibility (or place) in the first place.

Well this sounds pretty awful, and when I was reading it my eyes automatically jumped over to see how many posts you have made on here, because you seem well-spoken and all and I was surprised I didn't recognize your handle/avatar. Only 16? Have you brought these plug-in issues up on the public forum? I'd encourage you to do so immediately if you haven't. I've witnessed multiple examples of the developers addressing plug-in issues that were being batted about in the public forum. The squeakier wheels do tend to get the grease, and at the least, people need to know if other people are having problems getting their favorite plug-ins to work with Cakewalk. You don't want to start a big project and then find out that you can't use your favorite pitch corrector on the vocal. It's also helpful to share these fixes you found with the rest of the forum.

I'm specifically interested in whatever trouble you're having with MAutopitch, because I have more invested in Meldaproduction plug-ins than any other brand, including a license for MAutopitch, so I can try whatever it is you're trying. I just tried inserting it on an audio track, so it at least loads okay.

11 hours ago, AxlBrutality said:

when we threaten to leave Cakewalk...some of us don't actually want to.  But we're being backed into a corner where it seems we don't have a choice, and all too often it seems Cakewalk either just doesn't care

I'm going to get silly here and point out that Cakewalk doesn't care. Cakewalk, Inc. no longer exists, and Cakewalk the program is not sentient. ?

As for saying "okay, bye" when someone throws a temper tantrum and threatens to take their Behringer C1 and go home, I'm okay with that. The program is freeware. What is someone trying to leverage with when they say that? Watch it or you'll decrease your installed user base by one?

There was one guy, Scott, who posted a video on YouTube, and he was frustrated and angry with Cakewalk, and justifiably so, he had been working with Cakewalk, Inc. for a long time on some longstanding bugs and had been producing a series of YouTube tutorial videos using Cakewalk and said bugs had shown up again and fatally interfered with the workflow on the projects he was trying to demonstrate in the videos. So he got on there and posted a video about his frustrations and said that he could no longer recommend the program to new users nor could he stand to use it himself, that the bugs had been outstanding for too long, etc. Fair enough. Someone posted a link to it here, controversy ensued, and yes, there were the predictable Cakewalk apologists. But the devs responded and put a ton of work into fixing his main complaint, which did go back a long time and involved getting in touch with Steinberg and digging into arcane areas of the VST3 spec and all sorts of things. It was a bear to iron out, but they did it. The guy's statement (not threat) he was going to bail had leverage, though. He had a YouTube channel with followers, he posted a video, and he was telling the truth, he had actually submitted the issues to Cakewalk, Inc. years earlier, back in the Gibson days. It wasn't just some dude coming on like everyone should quake at the idea that he wouldn't be using Cakewalk any more because now it makes you go online every 6 months to validate and his internet only works for 3 weeks after Christmas when his grandson comes over and fiddles with it then the cleaning lady does something and messes it up again.

Yes, it's good business for BandLab to listen to its users. Yes, it's good business for people who use Cakewalk to be happy with Cakewalk. Does it cost BandLab anything when someone downloads Cakewalk, checks it out, and decides they don't like it? Does it cost BandLab anything more when someone who "used SONAR since 8.3, paid for every single upgrade all the way through X3 and then bought the Lifetime Subscription" decides to start using Cubase instead?

I hope we see more of you around here. Go on over to Instruments and Effects and post about what's going on with MAutoPitch if you haven't yet. I want to know what's up with that.