[CLOSED] Cakewalk 2022.11 Early Access [Updated to Build 12]

[scook]

49 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

@scook @FJ Lamela @IgoRr please note the build link in the original post has been updated to version 008 which should resolve the delete issue. Thanks!

Looks OK Now

[IgoRr]

35 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

original post has been updated to version 008 which should resolve the delete issue

Yes, everything is working perfectly now, thank you very much!!!   ?

[Milton Sica]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

@scook @FJ Lamela @IgoRrobserve que o link de compilação na publicação original foi atualizado para a versão 008, que deve resolver o problema de exclusão. Obrigado!

 

Hello

I think your statement is opportune to bring up one that I suggested some time ago, which, unfortunately, doesn't work when we're in the EA version.

For example:

I had downloaded version 006, but when checking the DAW if I'm up to date it confirms that I am.

Only you are now saying that there is already a 008 and that this would be in the initial POST, but it is not.

We only know if we click on the LINK and visualize the sequence in use.

I think it's a good time to implement that, even though it's an EA version, it can identify if there's a newer EA version just like the production version.

That would make it a lot easier for everyone.

 

[Jonathan Sasor]

Just now, Milton Sica said:

 

Hello

I think your statement is opportune to bring up one that I suggested some time ago, which, unfortunately, doesn't work when we're in the EA version.

For example:

I had downloaded version 006, but when checking the DAW if I'm up to date it confirms that I am.

Only you are now saying that there is already a 008 and that this would be in the initial POST, but it is not.

We only know if we click on the LINK and visualize the sequence in use.

I think it's a good time to implement that, even though it's an EA version, it can identify if there's a newer EA version just like the production version.

That would make it a lot easier for everyone.

 

 

Hi Milton, we have two methods for doing an Early Access drop. Right now, we're doing an informal Early Access where we're making the new build available publicly via this forum thread, but it's not pushed to our back end where it would appear in-app via Check for Updates. This simply allows us to expand the number of users on the latest build to the broader audience of this forum without necessarily pinging all CbB users to install it yet.

My previous comment was just to indicate that I updated the build in the original post since we fixed a few things. We're still in the same phase of Early Access as before, so you'd need to grab an updated build if you had already installed the initial EA drop from yesterday. 

[FJ Lamela]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

@scook @FJ Lamela @IgoRr please note the build link in the original post has been updated to version 008 which should resolve the delete issue. Thanks!

Thanks Jonathan!

[FJ Lamela]

New bug in Cakewalk_by_BandLab_Update_Setup_28.11.0.008

insert an fx, add automation,

replace the fx, the automation is orphaned,

assign the automation to the new effect.

assigned automation does not work.

I'm going to make a video for you to see.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by FJ Lamela

[Milton Sica]

51 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

 

Hi Milton, we have two methods for doing an Early Access drop. Right now, we're doing an informal Early Access where we're making the new build available publicly via this forum thread, but it's not pushed to our back end where it would appear in-app via Check for Updates. This simply allows us to expand the number of users on the latest build to the broader audience of this forum without necessarily pinging all CbB users to install it yet.

My previous comment was just to indicate that I updated the build in the original post since we fixed a few things. We're still in the same phase of Early Access as before, so you'd need to grab an updated build if you had already installed the initial EA drop from yesterday. 

Thanks for the answer.

However, I insist:

It would be very difficult to put in the EA version the same as in the production version, that is: THERE IS A more up-to-date VERSION (EA).

I think this would prevent users who collaborate on the review from being able to keep an eye on what's latest.

I go further. There is a Preferences option where users express their interest in collaborating with improvements.

So this can also be used, even to make this alert even while the application is in use, that is, at time intervals, or even when closing the application so that the collaborative user is alerted of the existence of a new compilation.

Just a suggestion to improve the flow.

[chris.r]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:08 AM, apt said:

Thanks for the update!

But it's kind of weird that Quick Grouping only works on that new feature, but not on other "more basic" operations on effects, such as plugin on/off, rack on/off and deleting plugin.

Oh yes, that quick-groupable effects on/off on all selected tracks with one click is a serious feature pretender for mixing indeed, I've been missing it in Cakewalk for years. Looks like we're now closer than ever to it. Maybe a feature request?

Edited November 5, 2022 by chris.r

[Herbert Zio]

I found the option to replace the plugin inserted in the track cool, it would be interesting if there was an option to delete all plugins inserted in the track at once, instead of deleting one at a time.

[IgoRr]

In principle, this new function is very convenient in itself, but if it could be "optimized" a little more: make it not in the form of a "point", but in the form of a link, in the same way as the "Add Plugin" function is designed to when hovering over this function, a list of plugins immediately opened, as in the "Add" section. This way it would be possible to "replace" the plugin in one click.

[FJ Lamela]

New bug in Cakewalk_by_BandLab_Update_Setup_28.11.0.008

insert an fx, add automation,

replace the fx, the automation is orphaned,

assign the automation to the new effect.

assigned automation does not work.

[Keni]

I plan on checking out controller editing in inline editor, but if indeed we can’t edit such in PRV while displayed behind notes, it’s somewhat pointless. Opening the controller view removes it from the notes view leaving us the same as if we didn’t have this new view.

Is this expected? Is it planned for an update?

I like what I’m seeing as it appears a finer resolution but that may only be perceived. Most of controller editing is still a royal pain for me much of the time. I am (was?) hoping editing behind notes would somehow improve this?

[Milton Sica]

On 11/2/2022 at 2:40 PM, Morten Saether said:

You can use quick grouping to replace all instances of the same effect on all selected tracks. To do this, hold the CTRL key while choosing the replacement effect. To also replace plugins found within FX chains, hold CTRL+SHIFT down.

Shouldn't this operation reach ALL SELECTED TRACKS?

I understood that this would also reach the existing effects on the BUS, but it only works separately on the selected tracks or the selected BUS.

If I have several tracks selected and I command in the tracks section, the replacement does not reach the existing effects on the BUS, even if selected.

The same happens in reverse.

It's strange that you can REPLACE ONE EFFECT by another using CTRL or CTRL SHIFT on several tracks and not be able to DELETE in the same way.

Here's a great opportunity for that!

Edited November 6, 2022 by Milton Sica

[Milton Sica]

On 11/2/2022 at 2:40 PM, Morten Saether said:

Improved MIDI clip controller rendering

To improve legibility, MIDI controller events are now drawn darker and behind note events in MIDI clips.

You can also show/hide controller events by clicking the Track view View menu and selecting Display > Show MIDI Controller Events.

 

 

 

This feature is very good, but it should show the MIDI controllers in different colors, because when there are more than one controllers used, it is quite confusing.

Case: I created a MIDI track and inserted 3 controllers. In track view they are seen as a single controller.

This would look much better if each controller was shown in the color it appears in the MIDI panel.
In this way, reinforcement is good, but only for the existence of a controller.

[Milton Sica]

On 11/5/2022 at 12:25 AM, chris.r said:

Oh yes, that quick-groupable effects on/off on all selected tracks with one click is a serious feature pretender for mixing indeed, I've been missing it in Cakewalk for years. Looks like we're now closer than ever to it. Maybe a feature request?

I agree and I think the time is now, because it is quite strange that you can REPLACE ONE EFFECT by another using CTRL or CTRL SHIFT and not be able to DELETE in the same way only ONE by ONE.

Here's a great opportunity for that!

[Milton Sica]

Replacing a plugin with another that has automations keeps the automations of the replaced plugin and the same happens when the plugin is deleted.

My opinion is that both replacement and deletion should exclude any plugin automation.

[Olaf]

Very happy about this update. Finally!! ? solves some things that I've asked for since I was two (not really, but for a really long time).

I can confirm these work on my system

• Browser collapsed state fails to persist when opening project
• Incorrect docked view order after project load

and I've checked on every open so far, almost in disbelief. Call me low expectation, but seeing that actually behaving correctly makes me really happy. You learn to appreciate the simple things ☺️. Now, connected to that - all that remains, afaic, is for the Arranger Track show/hide setting to be saved and recalled correctly with the project, cause it's not, just like the Brwoser and Synth Rack weren't before this update, and the Show Velocity setting in Track View>MIDI, too - cause the Arranger Track show/hide is remembered on and off, and Show Velocity, never.

I think the new Replace FX function is useful, not so much cause it removes deleting the old one manually, for a single instance - not that much effort - but it really comes in handy when you do mass replace.

And so I agree with @Milton Sica that mass delete should also be possible (since mass insert and replace already are), following the same principles, and ALSO mass On/Off of rack FXs - that's a big one. That's really useful for a quick comparison across the board, to see what a plugin does, and is impossible for now. So that option added would be consistent behavior, and a very seful feature. I would argue that if we had mass Delete, combined with the already existing mass Insert, you wouldn't even need Replace at all, it would just be one extra click across the board - but having Replace, too, is a plus, not a minus, so no complaint there. However mass Delete and mass On/Off would be useful functions in themselves, not only in connection with Replace.

On this topic, you should be able to click-select an Insert FX and delete it by pressing "DEL" - obviously, also for mass Delete (+Ctrl). Doing that doesn't work now, and I've had the experience - this I believe should be checked - of trying that, while in the Console View, and have it do nothing, only to find later on, that my pressing "DEL" DID do something, which was delete an audio clip that was selected in the... Track View, which is an major no-no. So, first of all, pressing anything should not do things you don't know about, in other views that are not selected, and secondly deleting FXs should be possible via pressing DEL, which would be an intuitive and common sense option.

• You can now optionally send "All Notes Off" messages to all VST plugins when the transport stops

That seems like a good idea, I've had a synth with a somewhat longer release amp envelope setting, and it had this droning note throughout the exported song, even though the synth only came in in the last part of it - and obviously the release wasn't THAT long. So that was ?... spooky action at a distance, to quote someone with bad hair.

I don't get this, though - not the point of it, but how to interpret the behavior:

• Note: If the tooltip shows "Time Critical" when MMCSS is enabled in ASIO mode, it's possible that the driver is not using MMCSS, or has set up MMCSS incorrectly.

On my Audient ID4 mk2 - haven't tried the Evo - when Enable MMCSS is toggled off, I get "Time Critical", and when it's on, I get "Realtime" - in ASIO, obviously.

Does that mean that the audio driver CAN manage MMCSS on its own, or that it CAN'T?

For this,

• Bouncing with selected aux tracks alone doesn't automatically include sources routed to the aux track, leading to silent output

I've had the opposite happen, which is, if I select a MIDI clip for an Export Selection operation, and for some reason the output tracks for the respective synth, and/or the bus (Aux Track) summing those outputs, is/are not selected, the output of that synth is not exported, which is weird. Once you select clips to be included in a bounce, the signal path for it should be included by default, with no selection, since otherwise the bounce is not possible.

Last, but not least, the automatic update within Cakewalk - which is really nice to have - doesn't work well with EA releases - there a mismatch there, which complicates updating - particularly since no links are provided for the official releases, for a reason I don't understand.

The EA releases are not notified by CW update, which is OK, maybe not everybody wants to be involved, and bothered with those toasts - although, if I know anything about audio nerds, EVERYBODY can't wait for a new update, EA or not - but the problem is, if you install the EA release manually, then CW DOESN'T notify you of the final release - it treats it as being already INSTALLED - so there's absolutely no way of getting it. Basically there's no way of getting the final release anywhere - no links, and no notifications - if you've got the EA installed.

I think that should be sorted out. Either the EA releases not be considered by the update notifier - like now - in which case it should notify you of the final release, even if it's the same version as the EA - or EAs be considered as a proper update, in which case you should be notified of them. Cause this way is neither here, nor there, and leaves you with no path to get the final release - or even know about it, if you've already got the EA installed manually.

By the way @Noel Borthwick, if you've gone through the trouble of signing all the .dlls - which is really useful, cause Windows Defender is an absolute bitch, and there's no way of fully getting rid of it, it even blocks itself, Windows components, full installations, EVERYTHING portable, so on - I don't think I've ever had a virus that was so damaging to the computer as this "antivirus", in the most proper sense - it never remembers any permissions, so on, many times it doesn't ask, doesn't even inform, anyway, complete and utter dementia - why not provide the link to the full installer, so that we can actually make full use of the signed dlls? What's the point in making that improvement, if people can't have access to it?

Anyway, really like this update. And can't wait for the next improvements.

On 11/2/2022 at 7:40 PM, Morten Saether said:

Bug fixes

•  Drag and drop of audio from track with patch point crashes
• Crash when trying to open project with incomplete event archive (audio events with no filename saved)
• Crash deleting instrument track with Spitfire Audio BBC Symphony Orchestra
• Application can crash on load with certain track templates
• Loading a project while another one was open could result in incorrect tempo being displayed in tempo track 
• Regression: Mono hardware outputs always output as stereo
• Tracks sourced from aux track L/R/S always show a stereo record meter when armed
• Second export of Mix Recall tasks has unexpected error
• Previous MIDI loop takes can be heard during comping and/or Auto Punch+Mute Previous Takes
• Overlapping Arranger sections when moving section with overwrite on empty project
• Opening a project that is already open causes the document modified state to be cleared and re-initializes the open project
• Bouncing with selected aux tracks alone doesn't automatically include sources routed to the aux track, leading to silent output
• Now time should not be set during Arranger move/resize operations during playback
• Multi-dock draws incorrectly, and views do not open after opening certain projects
• Clip Map fails to draw correctly on AudioSnap clips
• Offset tempo map loses resolution 
• Browser collapsed state fails to persist when opening project
• Incorrect docked view order after project load
• Primary audio thread not running at MMCSS priority in WASAPI mode
• Undo delete effect doesn't restore MIDI Input enabled state

 

[Noel Borthwick]

5 hours ago, Olaf said:

 

Anyway, really like this update. And can't wait for the next improvements.

 

Glad that its fixed some of your problems. Some bugs really need repros to find otherwise it can be impossible to triangulate. After working with @Helene Kolpakova  I got a reproducible case for the browser drawing bugs and crashes and that made it much easier for Ben to fix. It was still very complex though.  

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And so I agree with @Milton Sica that mass delete should also be possible (since mass insert and replace already are), following the same principles, and ALSO mass On/Off of rack FXs - that's a big one. That's really useful for a quick comparison across the board, to see what a

Mark has now added support for quick group delete fx as well as bypass effect so it will be in the final release.
 

Quote

On this topic, you should be able to click-select an Insert FX and delete it by pressing "DEL" - obviously, also for mass Delete (+Ctrl). Doing that doesn't work now, and I've had the experience - this I believe should be checked - of trying that, while in the Console View, and have it do nothing, only to find later on, that my pressing "DEL" DID do something, which was delete an audio clip that was selected in the... Track View, which is an major no-no. So, first of all, pressing anything should not do things you don't know about, in other views that are not selected, and secondly deleting FXs should be possible via pressing DEL, which would be an intuitive and common sense option.

I agree with this. Unfortunately there is no concept of effects selection so delete applies to the last selected object. However the fact that it deletes some random clip or object that the user has forgotten about and is potentially not visable has also bugged me since the beginning since it can lead to data loss. Obviously there is room for improvement in that area.

Quote

 

I don't get this, though - not the point of it, but how to interpret the behavior:

• Note: If the tooltip shows "Time Critical" when MMCSS is enabled in ASIO mode, it's possible that the driver is not using MMCSS, or has set up MMCSS incorrectly.

On my Audient ID4 mk2 - haven't tried the Evo - when Enable MMCSS is toggled off, I get "Time Critical", and when it's on, I get "Realtime" - in ASIO, obviously.

Does that mean that the audio driver CAN manage MMCSS on its own, or that it CAN'T?

 

I don’t blame you for the confusion. I’m just following the guidelines for the ASIO spec. (which I actually disagree with since I think its misguided information and the host should be setting thread priorities not drivers, because realtime audio threads need to behave identically as a group)
If its showing time critical by default when enable ASIO MMCSS is off in cbb, there is a possibility that the driver is NOT setting the priority to MMCSS. If its showing Realtime, when you enable MMCSS then it means we were successfully able to change the driver’s thread priorities to match our engine threads (which is a good thing).
Unfortunately in Windows its very hard to check existing MMCSS priories accurately so its possible that that the driver is actually setting MMCSS, but just not a high enough priority. The best way to check (assuming that you can identify the driver thread for your ASIO device) is to run Process Monitor and look at the priorities for the ASIO driver. For MMCSS it must be running with a dynamic priority of 24 or higher to be a pro audio thread.

See this thread for instructions.

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Last, but not least, the automatic update within Cakewalk - which is really nice to have - doesn't work well with EA releases - there a mismatch there, which complicates updating - particularly since no links are provided for the official releases, for a reason I don't understand.

There is some confusion here. We have both soft and full public EA releases. The soft releases are only announced on the forum. This release was originally supposed to be much smaller so we chose to make it a soft release. However it grew legs and turned into 2022.11. We chose not to publicly push it until release in this case. When we release obviously everyone will get update notifications. (If it was a public EA you would have got an in-app notification)

Quote

By the way @Noel Borthwick, if you've gone through the trouble of signing all the .dlls - which is really useful, cause Windows Defender is an absolute bitch, and there's no way of fully getting rid of it, it even blocks itself, Windows components, full installations, EVERYTHING portable, so on - I don't think I've ever had a virus that was so damaging to the computer as this "antivirus", in the most proper sense - it never remembers any permissions, so on, many times it doesn't ask, doesn't even inform, anyway, complete and utter dementia - why not provide the link to the full installer, so that we can actually make full use of the signed dlls? What's the point in making that improvement, if people can't have access to it?

We don’t publicly expose the full installer because its large and incurs higher download costs. However if you need it ask support or PM one of us and we can send you a link when the full release is available.

[Elena Kolpakova]

The Christmas did come early this year - no more crashes when opening projects! And the browser state is remembered correctly! This is bliss! Thank you so much for listening to us! ???

Speaking of which, it seems RME ASIO driver does use MMCSS properly as I see the audio engine thread getting the Realtime (18) priority.

Really LOVE the darkened controller events on clips! Although it seems in my case they are rendered above the notes ? 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Helene Kolpakova

[Noel Borthwick]

Yes, RME does handle MMCSS properly from the get-go, back in 2008. I'd worked with the driver developer together on this and we came to an understanding. If it's enabled in the driver, they set the thread to pro audio priority. However, I think it defaults to MMCSS off. 
BTW even though cakewalk shows it as 18, it's really running at priority 26. The only way to see that is by running Process Explorer, however. We don't have a way to programmatically get the true MMCSS priority of existing threads unfortunately so it shows as 18.