Horrific Audio Glitch

[bitflipper]

Thanks for bumping the thread, Bob. I, too, had lost track of it.

I'm guessing your issue isn't caused directly by excessive DPC latency, although that doesn't mean LatencyMon can't provide useful clues. 

That 28 milliseconds incurred by ATAPort.sys (your hard drive driver) warrants further investigation. Of course, it's not unusual for your drive to be working hard during a DAW session. But if it's got a bad or soft spot in the middle of an audio file, you could get noticeable glitching as the drive repeatedly attempts to re-read the sector. It wouldn't hurt to run a deep drive test (e.g. Western Digital's Data Lifeguard Diagnostics).

 

 

[TVR PRODUCTIONS]

Disregard

Edited June 11, 2020 by TVR PRODUCTIONS

[Robert Bone]

OK @Helos Bonos - I have a couple of questions for you:

1) What version of the device drivers are you running, for your 896MK3?  

Link to download page - look under MOTU Audio Installer section at bottom left of page looks like v4-06-6814 is latest

ALSO at the above page, click the '+' sign next to where it says Firmware and Manuals, and find the link for your 896MK3 there, and there IS a firmware update - to v1.02 if you are not running that, you should download it and go through the installation of the firmware, and the installation of the latest Windows device drivers for it.

2) What happens if, after the above are installed,  you start a new project and record just vocals - no effects, to see if any glitches?

3) What happens if you change the ASIO Buffer Size to 128 Samples, and then try recording just vocals in a new project, no effects?

4) Just for a test, please go into Windows Device Manager (right-click on Windows Start button, and click on Device Manager), and then just for testing purposes, expand the  Network Adapters  category.  Then, right-click on whatever  WiFi adapter drivers you have present, and again just for testing, make sure you click on Disable Device - NOT uninstall (there will also be a warning message telling you the device will quit working if you disable it - click OK for the message, as you meant to disable the device, which will only be temporary).  You may have more than one WiFi driver shown - Disable all of them that are for WiFi.  Afterwards., launch Cakewalk, into a new project, and again, test recording just vocals, no effects, with an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 Samples, and see if the issues go away.  When done with the testing, go back into Device Manager, right-click on any WiFi drivers that you disabled, and click on Enable this device.  Then, post back the results of this set of tests.

5) Manually check for any outstanding Windows Updates. Hit the Windows Start button, then click on the gear icon to get into Settings, then click on Updates and Security, and that will place you in Windows Update.  Look below the Check for Updates button, for any maintenance shown there.  You will likely have to manually explicitly click on a button or link to tell it to Install Updates, or Review and Install - etc., unless you see updates are in the process of downloading - anyways - you need to make sure that any and all of these outstanding updates are installed.  Sometimes these updates, particularly big rollup maintenance, or version upgrades, require that manual clicking on the Install Updates button to get those installed.  Afterwards, if restart is required, go ahead and restart, and in any case, launch Cakewalk, into a new project, with ASIO Buffer Size at 128 Samples, and record vocals, no effects, and post back here with the results.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOO - please review, perform, and respond to, all 5 of the above items, and post back to this thread with your results, and we can go from there.

Kewl?

Bob Bone

 

[Noel Borthwick]

Have you tried this again with the latest 2020.05 release?

[Robert Bone]

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Have you tried this again with the latest 2020.05 release?

Thanks, Noel - I had meant to ask that with my other things for the OP to look at, but am a bit brain dead (little sleep), and my brain melted by number 5 - this should have been number 6.

DOH!

Bob Bone

 

[Helos Bonos]

Hi guys, thanks for returning to rescue me!

@bitflipper I'm going to try running that diagnostic. Thank you.
@Robert Bone I am running the latest drivers for my unit. Speicifically, the 6814 you posted. Installed that years ago. But I don't think I ever installed the Firmware updater. I will try that. My unit is not a hybrid and there is no DL for the FW version which is mine so hopefully, it works. #2 & #3, I'll try those but I think I won't have a problem with a new empty project. I'll try with my current project and then a new one.
#4, I have a WiFi router only connected through my computer to my printer. My internet connection is hard-wired. So I find it strange that I have so many WiFi drivers displayed.  Maybe this is the problem! I will try your advice.


#5, I will also check the manual updates per your advice. Thank you.

@Noel Borthwick You mean the latest release of CbB? If this is the release where they introduced the Arrangement Track, then yes, I am up to date on CbB. Thank you.
 

I'll try all the above advice and report back. Thanks again!

[Helos Bonos]

@bitflipper So I ran that diagnostic. Nice program. I did a quick scan on all three drives and all green check marks on everything. Do you think it's necessary to do a full scan? That takes hours. I supposed I could go back and do that if the other suggestions don't yield any results.

[Helos Bonos]

@Robert Bone Got this from the MOTU site regarding firmware:

Quote

Note: If a link is not provided, the firmware version listed is either the initial shipping version, or was not a software update and is no longer available.

My unit:
896mk3 FW
Current Version: v1.01
(no link) so there is nothing to install unless I use the 896mk3 Hybrid firmware which I'm afraid could cause problems.

Onto the next...

[Helos Bonos]

Ok, so I disabled all my WiFi drivers. Tried recording with buffer size 128. Tried 64, and back to 1024.
When recording into a bran new empty project, glitch free, as suspected.
When recording into my current project, I still get the glitches. Also varying degrees of tiny little crackles here and there. It's not a pristine recording.
Weird thing is these glitches and crackles seem to happen at certain areas.  There's one exactly on bar 6 , bar 9 and another bad one on bar 17. And some of them appear on transitions like going from the end of the chorus to the verse. AND I feel like I hear them in varying degrees. So they are in consistent which also makes me wonder if they are embedded in the file or is it CbB that's making the sound during playback and record. But it shows up on the export so maybe it is embedded somehow? I'm attaching a bounce of a solo vocal where you can hear the glitch really loud. You can hear 1 glitch at :09 on the word saw. Next one is at :16 really bad. Then again at :39 really really bad. I also attached a clip of harmonies where you can hear the glitches on multiple tracks at the same place.

Liar Glitch 2.mp3 harmony glitchs-MOTU Audio ASIO Main Out 1-2.mp3

[Robert Bone]

59 minutes ago, Helos Bonos said:

Ok, so I disabled all my WiFi drivers. Tried recording with buffer size 128. Tried 64, and back to 1024.
When recording into a bran new empty project, glitch free, as suspected.
When recording into my current project, I still get the glitches. Also varying degrees of tiny little crackles here and there. It's not a pristine recording.
Weird thing is these glitches and crackles seem to happen at certain areas.  There's one exactly on bar 6 , bar 9 and another bad one on bar 17. And some of them appear on transitions like going from the end of the chorus to the verse. AND I feel like I hear them in varying degrees. So they are in consistent which also makes me wonder if they are embedded in the file or is it CbB that's making the sound during playback and record. But it shows up on the export so maybe it is embedded somehow? I'm attaching a bounce of a solo vocal where you can hear the glitch really loud. You can hear 1 glitch at :09 on the word saw. Next one is at :16 really bad. Then again at :39 really really bad. I also attached a clip of harmonies where you can hear the glitches on multiple tracks at the same place.

Liar Glitch 2.mp3 667.75 kB · 0 downloads harmony glitchs-MOTU Audio ASIO Main Out 1-2.mp3 253.88 kB · 0 downloads

I have to knock out a couple of things here - only 6 AM, but plenty to do - I will circle back in a little bit, and check out the two files you posted.

By the way - I have personally experienced latency issues caused by my WiFi drivers, on a laptop I had, a while back, and others occasionally report similar issues.  Did you see any difference when you had them temporarily disabled?

And, if you copy/paste the audio clips from the project experiencing the glitches, into a new project's empty audio tracks, and play the new project, are those glitches ineed imbedded within the tracks?  If so, then no amount of changing any parameters or conditions will correct that.  If this is the case, can you record those affected clips over again, and if Cakewalk isn't continuing to glitch after that, are there any continuing issues? (other than dealing with what was reported by LatencyMon? 

Also, forgot to ask, when you had your WiFi drivers temporarily disabled, did you run LatencyMon to measure things at that point - and if not, could you do that and post the findings from running LatencyMon with those disabled?

Thanks, back in a a bit, not more than a couple of hours

Bob Bone

[Xoo]

9 hours ago, Helos Bonos said:

Hi guys, thanks for returning to rescue me!

@bitflipper I'm going to try running that diagnostic. Thank you.
@Robert Bone I am running the latest drivers for my unit. Speicifically, the 6814 you posted. Installed that years ago. But I don't think I ever installed the Firmware updater. I will try that. My unit is not a hybrid and there is no DL for the FW version which is mine so hopefully, it works. #2 & #3, I'll try those but I think I won't have a problem with a new empty project. I'll try with my current project and then a new one.
#4, I have a WiFi router only connected through my computer to my printer. My internet connection is hard-wired. So I find it strange that I have so many WiFi drivers displayed.  Maybe this is the problem! I will try your advice.


#5, I will also check the manual updates per your advice. Thank you.

@Noel Borthwick You mean the latest release of CbB? If this is the release where they introduced the Arrangement Track, then yes, I am up to date on CbB. Thank you.
 

I'll try all the above advice and report back. Thanks again!

None of those WAN* drivers are wifi.

[bitflipper]

5 hours ago, Helos Bonos said:

@bitflipper So I ran that diagnostic. Nice program. I did a quick scan on all three drives and all green check marks on everything. Do you think it's necessary to do a full scan? That takes hours. I supposed I could go back and do that if the other suggestions don't yield any results.

Yes, do a deep scan. It'll take awhile, so just kick it off at bedtime and check the results in the morning.

[Noel Borthwick]

11 hours ago, Helos Bonos said:

Hi guys, thanks for returning to rescue me!

@Noel Borthwick You mean the latest release of CbB? If this is the release where they introduced the Arrangement Track, then yes, I am up to date on CbB. Thank you.
 

 

@Helos BonosNo the 2020.05 release is one after the arranger release which was in April. Check your about box. There are lots of optimizations in the 05 release.

[Helos Bonos]

@Noel Borthwick Thank you sir. I am updating now. Apparently, mine was 04. I doubt this will make a difference but I guess it can't hurt.
@bitflipper ok, thanks. I'll try the full scan before bed. C drive or data drive? or both?
@Kevin Perry What are those then? I disabled them all and was disconnected from the internet. Would disabling those make a difference in the performance of my DAW? Thanks.
@Robert Bone Of yeah, sorry, I forgot to report on that. I feel like the performance improved. But then again, CbB seems to perform better upon opening and when open for a while, degrades in performance. I was able to operate at 64 buffer size with minimal crackling. Latency almost undetecable but after a few minutes, slowly increased latency. I had to reopen the preferences window and click on 64 again then it went back to lower latency. That's a good idea pasting the clips to a new project. It's so hard to tell if it's in the clip or just hearing it live BUT as you know, when I bounce a clip or the whole song, those glitches are audible so baked in or not, they are there in the final product. One last thing that dawned on me which may be a clue: if you listen to the glitches, it sounds like the audio is downsampled or bit crushed. Can't tell which but the question is, what would cause audio to be downsampled or crushed like that? And again--in very specific places on the timeline.
 

[Noel Borthwick]

1 hour ago, Helos Bonos said:

Latency almost undetecable but after a few minutes, slowly increased latency.

This was the symptom of scheduling model 3 which was fixed in the latest release. Did you have thread scheduling model set to 3 earlier?

[Helos Bonos]

1 minute ago, Noel Borthwick said:

This was the symptom of scheduling model 3 which was fixed in the latest release. Did you have thread scheduling model set to 3 earlier?

I think mine was set to 2. I'm working in Reaper now. I'll check later. I was unable to update to the latest version of CbB. It hung up at the end of installation:

[Xoo]

On 6/13/2020 at 2:34 AM, Helos Bonos said:

 What are those then? I disabled them all and was disconnected from the internet. Would disabling those make a difference in the performance of my DAW? Thanks.

Quick'n'dirty response: these are all software protocols that layer above your network protocol (eg. TCP/IP) driver for Wide Area Network support (eg. PPTP = Point-to-point tunneling protocol).  This could route through your wi-fi interface, but could also through a wired ethernet adapter.  They're not loaded if not used (and most are probably are very rarely used nowadays).

[Helos Bonos]

Thanks @Kevin Perry . So I guess it's not causing me problems. I'm hard-wired anyway. I do have a connection to a wireless router for my printer though.

[Robert Bone]

3 minutes ago, Helos Bonos said:

Thanks @Kevin Perry . So I guess it's not causing me problems. I'm hard-wired anyway. I do have a connection to a wireless router for my printer though.

The notion behind temporarily disabling WiFi drivers, is that some WiFi drivers can interfere with the kinds of streaming audio tasks that Cakewalk and other DAW software does, and can mess up te audio.

The disabling of the WiFi drivers should only be temporary, after which you would test out any effect on your audio in Cakewalk.  Once you have determined whether or not having them disabled makes your audio issues clear up in Cakewalk, you can enable the WiFi drivers again, in Device Manager.

IF you found that having the WiFi drivers temporarily disabled while using Cakewalk, then you might just want to incorporate the temporary disabling if them, just ahead of launching Cakewalk, and after finishing with your Cakewalk session, just reverse the process - enabling the WiFi drivers again.

Worth a quick test to see

Bob Bone

[Helos Bonos]

But @Robert Bone, since the list is not indeed WiFi drivers, do you think that those WAN miniports could still be causing a possible issue? As Kevin says, those are not WiFi.