Misha

I am also tapedeck oldschool yardstick linear. That's the point. If Sonar adopts some kind of funky looper that kids will love, that is great, I have no issues with the progress. I do have issues how Bandlab treats those "oldschoolers" like me who simply want some kind of confidence as far as DAW goes for the next few years. If I was young and into EDM/beats, likely Sonar - for$ would likely be on the bottom of my list. I did try FL for the fun of it and I can see how it can be useful for newer genres. It's not your fathers Fruity loops. It became pretty advanced DAW since last I have tried it. I didn't find the features I need, but thumbs up to Image Line. Still not sure who BL is aiming for holding Sonar tethered to credit card. I just can't see people joyfully jumping on their subscription wagon for the Sonar.

That what is bothering me... as I don't understand how is tying Sonar to sub only will help BL. Traditionally Cakewalk was used by a more mature audience, kiddos went different route years ago... FL, Reason, Ableton. Now they are mature boys & girls. I don't know a single person who switched to Cakewalk from those who started recording ~15 years ago. Even those who I personally convinced to get Sonar Home pre 2018, as it was cheap and even free at some point, switched to other DAWs. Point is, likely they will release normal licenses at some point, but why disturb long term followers in such way? From my understanding, most of those who sticked around from pre-2018 don't want a "subscription". (But most are ok Rent-to-own). The only piece of information that was publicly made was Noel mentioning "other" ways they are looking into for obtaining a license. Ball is obviously in BL's court, but it's getting heavier by the day.

Trying to wrap my head around this ridiculously strange Sonar "release" While many threads hint that Bandlab is not interested in us, longtime users... Lets try to understand why they tied Sonar to subscription? Judging by content Bandlab hosts... it seems mainly aimed at more modern - kiddo music. Just think for a moment. Kids who are into beatmaking, EDM and similar music will unlikely to use Cakewalk by choice. Don't get me wrong, Cakewalk is perfectly capable of delivering, but there are sooo many options, and some of these crafted specifically minding those genres (that Bandlab widely represents). Froot Loops (Starter at $99 for perpetual) or even Bitwig - perpetual licenses of light version which were given out for free at one point. Why would a kid sign up for $180 pocket drain? To become "famous"? Social stuff? I don't know (and I don't want to know). But intuition tells me Sonar will not be their decision maker. Maybe a byproduct. So why Bandlab is taking a swing a us, most loyal group? Remains a dark & unhappy mystery. I am confident they will leave Cakewalk by Bandlab alone for at least a year, but without known expiration date, as of now to me it's a dead man walking. I will put my urge of switching DAW on pause for a few months in hope that they either release normal licenses or at least clarify plans for the future of Cakewalk & Sonar.

Here is another flat earth conspiracy: Now, that the wording in FAQ of discontinuation is gone and with today's announcement by Jesse, I think it is safe to assume they will keep Cakewalk alive for at least a year or two. Perhaps much longer. Maybe they are just working to add certain features on top of HD GUI to add value to Sonar, so when it's ready for perpetual license release, there will be enough feature differences to seduce us, dear valued customers. For example, if it offered chord track / assist and it would be only available at higher tier, I would consider getting that version.

+1

Well, I drove 3 Toyotas and one Honda in my lifetime. According to you - I can purchase whole Bandlab like a candy bar from a grocery store, with offer Mr.Meng can't refuse. Ohh yes, if I will be a king of the hill, free lifetime licenses to those who are willing tattoo "CAKEWALK" on their backs.

I am not sure how you arrived at that conclusion as you can purchase perpetual licenses to most DAWs and plugins outright. Yes, if a kid or somebody on tight budget can't afford to spend something with two zeros, subscriptions would likely work better, but as soon as something better comes out - they are gone you will never see them again. With perpetual license, it's an investment and commitment, where you will get discounts on upgrades, show loyalty and be more proficient knowing the software at the end . Whatever projects you create, will likely to open for you in 5-10 years (Sorry Macos). The trend that I am seeing is more and more companies are offering to spread the payment over X amount of months. Which is smart. Speaking of X. Sonar X1 will open most current projects. You will lose most FX, but stems are there for the export

$180 is not simple. If by the end of the year you don't pay up, toy is taken away. There are tons of options for perpetual licenses at this price level. Also, something that gets rarely mentioned, those who record at home for 2-5 years likely already accumulated all bells and whistles (plugins). Amount of plugins and content never convinced me to spend more. Features do. I believe they plainly chickened out and decided to quicky patch up the leak risking mass departure of customers. They done it once, likely they will attempt to do it again.

I think it would be extremely unreasonable not to sell perpetual licenses, while 90%+ of competition offer normal licenses. Some folks here mention age? I believe age has nothing to do with it. Most companies offer third party solution to buy it over 6 or 12 month without interest. So I am sure, even with a low paying starter job one can manage to pay for a DAW within a year. My guess, there will be some kind of introductory discount when they decide to release new Sonar, but regular price tiers likely should to be from $99-$399 USD. (Should we play Price is right?) I doubt they will do company any good if the only option will be subscription. Many people will go bye bye. Waves comes to mind. Even when company flipped the sub only decision, I stopped looking into their products. To me they are dead. With Bandlab, I have a feeling it is different. I am sure it's in their plans to release Sonar as perpetual, but their marketing needs some serious spanking. P.S. This is one of the best musical tech communities I came across. While it seems irrelevant, I believe community is also a part of the deal. I think if they wait for too long with licenses, community will start to erode.

Craig, thank you for volunteering. In Cakewalk you can use takes as independent tracks, with their own gain string+node editing, sound on sound comping, mutes and/or solos on individual lanes. I have tried pretty much most modern DAWs on the market, leaving a few untouched like Magix , Motu performer and couple of others. None have same workflow. Similar - yes, but far from being what I want. Studio One is likely overall closest to Cakewalk as far as workflow goes. Speaking of "Touch" Sonar/Cakewalk undoubtably pioneer (Windows) in touch screen capabilities /navigation , Bitwig, which is closest, is still far away. I am a Cakewalk guy. Had been for 20+ years. I don't have any desire to switch. What got me tripped is that FAQ had very particular wording on Cakewalk life expectancy , which they later removed. I came to conclusion that it's very unlikely BL will pull carpet under in similar manner as Gibson did. As long as I (we) have 2-3 years to see how Sonar might be offered, I decided to abandon my demanding tone and just see how things will play out in.

Lets be clear. I have zero issues with bakers. Cakewalk / Sonar are great products. Noel is a wizard. Whoever is currently playing games should have come up with a couple of sentences of explanation, so staff can relay that to users. They had a full year to do that.

I would likely do same if it was clearly announced that non-sub licenses are coming 2025. That way I would show my support and patiently wait for the promised license availability. As of now, Bandlab is doing something very murky. I have not seen anything like this with other companies. Started to dig into Studio One. Not a DAW of my choice, but the closest to Cakewalk workflow. Will wait till demo lasts before buying it. Perhaps Bandlab will squeeze some kind of answer before then.

3) On a fishing expedition. ------------- I guess I should drop my requests to clarify if perpetual licenses for new Sonar are in plans for near future. They have bluntly ignored simple inquiries. It's Bandlab's Karma. However, they should answer on approximate life expectancy of Cakewalk by Bandlab. Do people who are leaving have a luxury of time (2-3 years) to purchase and learn another DAW or we are talking months? If subscription only model(s) are on the table, I have deep regrets of putting my trust in the company which made certain vows, instead of using this time learning the workflow of another DAW. It was never about "free" to me. There was whole bunch of people (including me) who offered to purchase Bandlab's version in the beginning (and last year for that matter). If it was a long term plan to get people hooked and then offer no path but subscription, that's some deep evil.

"You dyed in the wool oldtimers should be pleased." -classic You can rent a tuxedo, that's understandable, but I would not rent a pair of underwear. Show of support will come when they release normal licenses in a timely manner, after a year of secrecy.... I have zero interest in pay-per-view Sonar. If you do, go for it - dressed in tight spandex legging young timer.

But you likely have the ability to contact people who are in charge of withholding clarity, so they are aware that many "dedicated core of long-term Sonar users" (Bandlab (c)) are not happy with lack of communication.

Personally (at this time), I care less who owns what. What I do care about if I can still do music the way I did in the past decade without subscriptions and without learning another DAW? At least for the next 3-4 years.

Where is the voice of reason - Noel B.?

We do. We should also remember the letter by Bandlab sent April 13, 2018. Do we? If some "forgot", take a look here: In original April 12th 2018 Bandlab's letter, "decades" were clearly mentioned. To keep their promise, technically they have to have Cakewalk available at least till April 13th 2028. Whatever will happen to Sonar licensing that remains a mystery... and their business. If they offer licenses - I will be among first in line. However, knowing how much time is left for transition period if licenses are not planned should be made known, if it is less than what was promised.

Jimbob, I don't think anything. It's my firm belief that Bandlab owes "dedicated core of long-term Sonar users" (Bandlab (c)) some clarity. Not answering those calls, again in my view, dampens their reputation as a company that made certain pledges.

John, You sold your soul to the devil signed up for subscription. I respect the choice you made, but I will not do that. Of course there are many DAWs out there. Likely the closest for me is Studio One. Why I am still hesitating: 1) Two+ decades of projects. 2) Particular take lane recording that is only found in Cakewalk. 3)Familiar workflow.. 4) There is at least some truth to initial humble letter by Bandlab sent to the "core of dedicated Cakewalk users" in 2018. (See my "Blast from the past" post if you need to refresh your memory) 5)Still hope they (Bandlab) have decency to reply to numerous concerns from several angles of worried current customers. At least give some clarity on what already had been said in the past few months, so some of us can plan ahead. 6)I don't want to purchase 2 DAWs in a year, if Sonar normal licenses are coming soon.

Well, so am I, but I also want to know approximate expiration of Cakewalk by Bandlab - so I can plan ahead. Still hope it's just some sort of internal locomotion and other non sub "options" will be introduced shortly.

I refuse to burry that horse until it starts to smell. There is a very good chance it just needs a prince's kiss to wake up.

Alternative is Cakewalk, which supposed to be "free" for "decades to come" *See my "Blast from the past post" Even if Sonar will be subscription only, clarity on phasing out Cakewalk by Bandlab should be given. To mark even one "decade" (per letter sent April 2018), technically it should work till April 2028. Will it do that?

I believe I do. I don't know where Bandlab stands on their product called Cakewalk, hence asking on the product forum they maintain.

And... they (finance, marketing/sales departments) should have all the PR excuses or/and answers ready (for developers and whoever else posts on behalf of the company on the public space) after 1 whole year of pickling "dedicated core of long term Sonar users". My main concern is that wording of discontinuation was present up until recently, and the way I understood: Cakewalk by Blb will be phased out after the "release" of Sonar. Seems like Sonar had been "released" as all "coming soons" are gone. It's a simple courtesy to inform users of what actually to expect to happen now (near future). P.S. I am not looking freebies. All I want is a bit of clarity. ----------------------------- I did, but answers given were very vague. I know it's a User forum and I am a user (of 20 years ) And my hope that my and perhaps numerous other voices coming from different perspectives (License, availability, pricing, tech stuff, etc.) can ring some bells of people who are withholding information.... at least on the near future (3-4 years) of the Cakewalk by Bandlab if licensing thing is still being "worked out".