Misha

Jonathan, thanks. I feel better. But please (!!) clarify, if it is safe to assume Cakewalk will work for next 2 years. With this semi-official confirmation, I promise to put the topic to rest. Reason is simple. If you come up with normal licenses for Sonar within one year, I will gladly purchase it. If not, I will continue writing tunes as I did for a year and then will have whole year to make a transition to something else. I hope this explains my frustration. Thank you.

Yes, Hybrid version gets you Studio One... to be yours. Nu Sonar unplugs you as soon as your money expire. That was exactly my point. Then (with S1 and similar) if you feel like some new features give you benefit, you continue to support company, without fear of being left without a tool if/when your money run out. I've collected enough plugins to keep me occupied for the next three lives, I doubt Sonar (or any DAW for that matter) can surprise me in such way that it will be a decision maker. As long as my projects open in pre 2018 Sonar, I will not subscribe. Period. Many of us gave BL a second chance in 2018. Many patiently waited over a year for normal licenses since initial Sonar announcement. Personally, I think it's one sick game they are playing. Zero respect for the people who are holding information hostage, whoever those might be. If no standard licenses are planned in near future (within a year) , it should be made very clear, so users can make informed choices. You, as a customer supposed to get exited when something you waited for a long time comes out. Unfortunately, this was a totally opposite experience. A Cakewalk user of 20 years.

While forum police is actively deleting threads with legitimate concerns, I have spent good 20 minutes following advice of another member to search for Noel B's posts clarifying my question for how long Cakewalk by Bandlab will be available for? Specifically downloading and activating. In search for an answer of discontinuation from this statement by Mortenby Saether: "CbB will eventually be discontinued as future development and support will transition to the upcoming Cakewalk Sonar release." The most clear answer I found from about 8 months ago from Noel reads: "There is no timeline to phase it out currently so it will be around awhile. " Is there a timeline now, as Sonar is presumably released? What does "phase it out" means? Stops working, activating, downloading, or just stopping getting updates and will be available same way as legacy products are?

Hope Dies Last

I am not like a bloody dog. Judging by my avatar, it's predictable that I am a cat lover. But I do despise the philosophy of when somebody makes certain promises they don't keep, especially considering years spent "building trust", but even more, cheap talk of bystanders somehow justifying this behavior instead of challenging unfair practice of keeping in the dark most dedicated group. But hey, what do I know.

Here we go again. I know several people who used Cakewalk/Sonar for years (decades!) After Gibson swallowed too much than it could chew, they moved to other DAWs and never looked back. These customers are forever lost and it's all because of greed. Bandlab should either keep promise it made in 2018 (I can attach a copy of the letter if some "forgot"), or clarify if it will be subscription only going forward, so people can make their final decisions, manage their time and move on.

https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk

That's a $1,000,000 question. We tried calling for help, crystal ball, voodoo dolls, spells, potions, mirrors, bats, candles, frogs, goats, etc. It's a great mystery that no one here can solve. As of now, you can rent it for about $180 a year - can't purchase it.

Did you forget Windows 2000 or 8? Never ending BSOD's 11 is OK, once you disable all the nonsense and figure out particular settings. At least... once you do, you can be confident it will last a few good years... unlike the future uncertainty of the DAW that most of us enjoy.

Seems like pressing a single button in Cakewalk to see if works with basic/core project items is easier than editing values in regedit, but hey it's your time and your computer. Hope something will work for you.

Did you try clicking a single magical FX button in Cakewalk I suggested? Cores and ram has little to do with your issues. Seems your specs are sufficient. My new computer has same amount of Ram (32), but less cores as previous. Runs much, much better. Processor, different chipset architecture and I/O bottlenecks mainly are causes of issues you are describing. In my view, #1 thing that gets overlooked is you have to set your power scheme to High Performance. Even if you have crapware installed, it should make a difference how Cakewalk runs. Usually it is set to "balanced" by default.

Did you remove bloatware that came with new computer? One simple test you can do is while in Cakewalk press FX button on upper header panel to disable all VST FX. If project runs fine with disabled FX, start enabling FX one by one until sick one is found. My previous computer was fairly fast, but something in it's processor architecture or chipset would not allow me to use Izotope plugins. And I tried many (many!!!) things trying to make them work. Nothing helped. I gave up on those plugins. A new computer, which is NOT a gaming computer takes Izotope without any issues. Different architecture made a world of difference.

You don't have to convince me. I know

Nope. I am not overthinking, I am confused. Exactly, because it's corporation it should understand "target" audience. By kiddos I mean somebody who grew up with touchscreens and more intuitive controls for loops, triggering, etc. There is nothing bad about it, just different. Gorillaz made whole album on ipad decade and a half ago and it's awesome. However Cakewalk/Sonar never appealed much to beatmakers. To some - yes. Is it capable? Yes. However, mainstream Cakewalk users seems to be in Pop (traditional), Rock and a few other bread & butter electro/acoustic genres. "Next" looks to be the right starter path for what it seems they (BL) are trying to achieve, but Sonar seems to be a misfit for sub only. I want to pay, just not for subscription. Rent-to-own or buy it outright would work just fine. Unfortunately other tools don't have particular tracking feature that Cakewalk has. I tried most. So it will be a trade-off to adopt to something that I've got used to for many years. Actually, I use Cakewalk on daily basis. That is what is bothering me the most. I am afraid that if I start to deep learn another DAW it will slash many many hours of scarce time I have to write tunes. Spending a few minutes to show my dissatisfaction with how I think BL handled this release, that I (and many others) had high hopes for is not biggie. Collective bargaining had worked in some cases

I am also tapedeck oldschool yardstick linear. That's the point. If Sonar adopts some kind of funky looper that kids will love, that is great, I have no issues with the progress. I do have issues how Bandlab treats those "oldschoolers" like me who simply want some kind of confidence as far as DAW goes for the next few years. If I was young and into EDM/beats, likely Sonar - for$ would likely be on the bottom of my list. I did try FL for the fun of it and I can see how it can be useful for newer genres. It's not your fathers Fruity loops. It became pretty advanced DAW since last I have tried it. I didn't find the features I need, but thumbs up to Image Line. Still not sure who BL is aiming for holding Sonar tethered to credit card. I just can't see people joyfully jumping on their subscription wagon for the Sonar.

That what is bothering me... as I don't understand how is tying Sonar to sub only will help BL. Traditionally Cakewalk was used by a more mature audience, kiddos went different route years ago... FL, Reason, Ableton. Now they are mature boys & girls. I don't know a single person who switched to Cakewalk from those who started recording ~15 years ago. Even those who I personally convinced to get Sonar Home pre 2018, as it was cheap and even free at some point, switched to other DAWs. Point is, likely they will release normal licenses at some point, but why disturb long term followers in such way? From my understanding, most of those who sticked around from pre-2018 don't want a "subscription". (But most are ok Rent-to-own). The only piece of information that was publicly made was Noel mentioning "other" ways they are looking into for obtaining a license. Ball is obviously in BL's court, but it's getting heavier by the day.

Trying to wrap my head around this ridiculously strange Sonar "release" While many threads hint that Bandlab is not interested in us, longtime users... Lets try to understand why they tied Sonar to subscription? Judging by content Bandlab hosts... it seems mainly aimed at more modern - kiddo music. Just think for a moment. Kids who are into beatmaking, EDM and similar music will unlikely to use Cakewalk by choice. Don't get me wrong, Cakewalk is perfectly capable of delivering, but there are sooo many options, and some of these crafted specifically minding those genres (that Bandlab widely represents). Froot Loops (Starter at $99 for perpetual) or even Bitwig - perpetual licenses of light version which were given out for free at one point. Why would a kid sign up for $180 pocket drain? To become "famous"? Social stuff? I don't know (and I don't want to know). But intuition tells me Sonar will not be their decision maker. Maybe a byproduct. So why Bandlab is taking a swing a us, most loyal group? Remains a dark & unhappy mystery. I am confident they will leave Cakewalk by Bandlab alone for at least a year, but without known expiration date, as of now to me it's a dead man walking. I will put my urge of switching DAW on pause for a few months in hope that they either release normal licenses or at least clarify plans for the future of Cakewalk & Sonar.

Here is another flat earth conspiracy: Now, that the wording in FAQ of discontinuation is gone and with today's announcement by Jesse, I think it is safe to assume they will keep Cakewalk alive for at least a year or two. Perhaps much longer. Maybe they are just working to add certain features on top of HD GUI to add value to Sonar, so when it's ready for perpetual license release, there will be enough feature differences to seduce us, dear valued customers. For example, if it offered chord track / assist and it would be only available at higher tier, I would consider getting that version.

+1

Well, I drove 3 Toyotas and one Honda in my lifetime. According to you - I can purchase whole Bandlab like a candy bar from a grocery store, with offer Mr.Meng can't refuse. Ohh yes, if I will be a king of the hill, free lifetime licenses to those who are willing tattoo "CAKEWALK" on their backs.

I am not sure how you arrived at that conclusion as you can purchase perpetual licenses to most DAWs and plugins outright. Yes, if a kid or somebody on tight budget can't afford to spend something with two zeros, subscriptions would likely work better, but as soon as something better comes out - they are gone you will never see them again. With perpetual license, it's an investment and commitment, where you will get discounts on upgrades, show loyalty and be more proficient knowing the software at the end . Whatever projects you create, will likely to open for you in 5-10 years (Sorry Macos). The trend that I am seeing is more and more companies are offering to spread the payment over X amount of months. Which is smart. Speaking of X. Sonar X1 will open most current projects. You will lose most FX, but stems are there for the export

$180 is not simple. If by the end of the year you don't pay up, toy is taken away. There are tons of options for perpetual licenses at this price level. Also, something that gets rarely mentioned, those who record at home for 2-5 years likely already accumulated all bells and whistles (plugins). Amount of plugins and content never convinced me to spend more. Features do. I believe they plainly chickened out and decided to quicky patch up the leak risking mass departure of customers. They done it once, likely they will attempt to do it again.

I think it would be extremely unreasonable not to sell perpetual licenses, while 90%+ of competition offer normal licenses. Some folks here mention age? I believe age has nothing to do with it. Most companies offer third party solution to buy it over 6 or 12 month without interest. So I am sure, even with a low paying starter job one can manage to pay for a DAW within a year. My guess, there will be some kind of introductory discount when they decide to release new Sonar, but regular price tiers likely should to be from $99-$399 USD. (Should we play Price is right?) I doubt they will do company any good if the only option will be subscription. Many people will go bye bye. Waves comes to mind. Even when company flipped the sub only decision, I stopped looking into their products. To me they are dead. With Bandlab, I have a feeling it is different. I am sure it's in their plans to release Sonar as perpetual, but their marketing needs some serious spanking. P.S. This is one of the best musical tech communities I came across. While it seems irrelevant, I believe community is also a part of the deal. I think if they wait for too long with licenses, community will start to erode.

Craig, thank you for volunteering. In Cakewalk you can use takes as independent tracks, with their own gain string+node editing, sound on sound comping, mutes and/or solos on individual lanes. I have tried pretty much most modern DAWs on the market, leaving a few untouched like Magix , Motu performer and couple of others. None have same workflow. Similar - yes, but far from being what I want. Studio One is likely overall closest to Cakewalk as far as workflow goes. Speaking of "Touch" Sonar/Cakewalk undoubtably pioneer (Windows) in touch screen capabilities /navigation , Bitwig, which is closest, is still far away. I am a Cakewalk guy. Had been for 20+ years. I don't have any desire to switch. What got me tripped is that FAQ had very particular wording on Cakewalk life expectancy , which they later removed. I came to conclusion that it's very unlikely BL will pull carpet under in similar manner as Gibson did. As long as I (we) have 2-3 years to see how Sonar might be offered, I decided to abandon my demanding tone and just see how things will play out in.

Lets be clear. I have zero issues with bakers. Cakewalk / Sonar are great products. Noel is a wizard. Whoever is currently playing games should have come up with a couple of sentences of explanation, so staff can relay that to users. They had a full year to do that.