John Vere

Use the Project/ Audio Data to see the complete list of audio in any projects. But the first thing I would do is exactly what @Bristol_Jonesey said and do a save as to a new location. Alway check the Copy Audio box. Back in 2013 it was more common to have audio go into the messy global audio folder. Save as / Copy Audio will make sure it’s now in the project folder. Open the project folder in the Browser and see if you can correlate the files with your tracks. The Track Manager and the Audio Data list are also good tools for sorting out messy projects.

It would be a nice gesture but what I think ( pure speculation) will happen. They will have different versions of Sonar that are priced accordingly with add ons available for more money. Former Sonar customers won’t need the add ons so will only need to purchase the basic version. At least I’m hoping for this or something similar.

You need to set up your computer for audio. Obviously it’s not optimized at all. Watch this for details Playlist of all my videos https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7YqVth30eGsURWrKGeu-fFyg3ETjF-Ox&si=nlEfhtK42q_6FKcy

I’m glad you updated as I remember this thread but I missed that last post by @David Baay Back in September you had me worried about Melodyne and since then I have avoided it but now I see after reading David’s post that your theory about Melodyne and bit depth are invalid. This is good news for me as I need to record some vocals. Please only take this as positive feedback. I truly think you need to rethink your workflow and do like all of us do and render the clips when done. For what it’s worth this is my current workflow. I record 3 different tracks none stop. I build track one into as good as it can be . Using parts of 2&3 if needed. Then I edit for timing , level and a little bit of pitch. To do this I chop my vocal track into sentences of the lyrics. I have assigned keys Z = Open Melodyne X= Render and close editor. I can work real fast this way. Like you I sometimes find Melodyne trashes a certain phrase. I use that second vocal track to record again. Not a lane, lanes suck. I’ll re sing the whole line. I’ll re try Melodyne on the new clip and if it works then I render it and delete the main vocal track clip and drag the new one into its place. Im glad I can carry on with this workflow with out worrying about degradation of the audio. I for sure will hear garbage that Melodyne can produce and the only solution is to redo that part until Melodyne doesn’t barf on it. Or use other methods.

I am always prompted for which algorithm I want and it is better not to use automatic in my experience. 90% of the time it works perfectly as expected. I find with guitar chords it’s better to feed it short clips. It barfs on whole 3 minute tracks. Most always works for bass. But editing the results is always required. Today I tried a simple snare track. Real snare, peaks at around-6db. It created a midi track with a zillion notes all wild velocities. Huge mess. Tried 3 times. That was the percussion setting. Then I tried drum replacer and it was just fine.

Project files are independent of software.

Bottom line: the Console is a view. It contains 3 main parts that can be moved horizontally, channels, busses and hardware strips. Those parts cannot be undocked and floated. There can only be one console view open in a project. All the views can be floated and tossed on as many monitors as your video card can support. Most views have this option. Example the Synth rack. You have a valid feature request which would be to add undocking options to the 3 parts. But honestly I think you’re the first person to ask for this and of course it will be a feature request for Sonar.

I keep W7 up to date for what it’s worth. I rarely enable the internet but when I do there always seems to be an update. I think the updates are just for software related things like MS Office. You don’t use the Bandlab Assistant anymore. You update from the help menu. And yes there’s a warning. The authorization process has been troublesome for many people and I found you need to be patient. The server seems slow to respond sometimes.

I have 2 laptops that are stuck in W7 due to age. I hate tossing out stuff that still works. And like others there’s also software, a CD printer and one audio interface stuck back there as well. I only use the one old Sony for music playback at gigs but I also put Cakewalk on it in an attempt to try using the playlist feature. I just updated to the latest and final version no problem. So Cakewalk still works on W7. Your best bet is to do the same so you’ll get more time. All older versions will time out real fast but the last version we are told will carry on until they decide we’ve had enough time to transition to Sonar.

Note to self :Optimizing Computer for audio tip number 102. Keep your desktop tidy. 103. Keep all large zip files on an external drive.

I’m big on deleting stuff. I always can do better! No muss no fuss. That’s why I don’t use take lanes or comping. Delete! Redo.

I made a video about this a year ago. You don't have to delete the audio, just convert it. And the audio needs to be one continuous track from start to finish. So we make stems. The Steps First Highlight the audio tracks you want to keep. Then you export all the audio tracks using " Tracks no effects or automation." choose 48/32 no dither If they are mono choose Mono. It they are both you have to do this once for each type. Use entire project for range and export. ( see screenshot for info) Now you can delete the audio, there has to be absolutely no audio in the project for this to work. Open "Project -Audio files" to check for hidden tracks. Change the project from 44.1 to 48 in preferences and using your audio interfaces control panel. Make sure this shows now in the transport module. Don't forget to click APPLY. Now just drag the exported audio back to it's original location. Done. You now have the choice of redoing them or keeping. Doubt if redoing will be worth it. I have done this to about 50 of my old 44.1 projects now, Takes a few minutes at most.

I caught that right away as I was reading. To elaborate on what Pro midi has said. All your hardware devices need to be selected in Preferences/Midi/ Devices/ Output From there I’m not sure as I sort of think that plug ins that send midi output do this only internally by default. Example Ample P bass will show as an available input to another midi track when output is enabled. So this is just internal to Cakewalk. I’m pretty sure it goes no where else. So it would seem you have to do as @Promidi has described to loop it back out.

I use T which opens the tool menu right where the mouse pointer is. This is pretty fast if you are good at both mouse and shortcuts

Few years ago during Covid a friend of mine who uses Pro Tools and Mac stuff asked me to record a bass track and put a copy of the project in Google drive. I had found this free version of Pro Tools First. It was pretty easy to do. I just was missing all his weird plug ins. Then I realized that I actually had a lot of them but was in the habit of unchecking the AXX box. I don’t understand the negative attitude towards Pro Tools often found here as I find it very user friendly and it’s pretty high on my list of a suitable DAW for my workflow. I also have Cubase and Mixbus which haven’t seen the light of day since the last big panic in 2016

This might explain why if you start from the beginning. https://youtu.be/MiDmgQaAN60?si=v8rOqQG0k_bJG1RS This might explain why you have no master bus and demo how to create one https://youtu.be/TEJ3IfBymXc?si=2wvEfyLcwxpDhIXR

I probably read it when it was published. I used to subscribe to SOS. There’s not much of a point. Just one personal opinion about pros and cons of using higher bit rate audio which is a topic that has been obviously been on going since the 90’s. So we can each make our own choice and for me that is based on my own personal experience over the last 30 years of digital audio being part of my recording process. I absolutely believe that 48/24 is the perfect choice for me. And when it becomes the standard I’ll bump it up to 48/32

Best way to manage views is to save a Workspace that is the way you want things to look. So you could create a workspace that only shows the channel strips and another that just shows the buses. For me I just drag it to the right so I only see the edge of the Master bus, Then I drag it back when I need only the buses. Pretty simple that way.

2008! probably back when audio interfaces ( sound cards?) were still mostly 16 bit as well as CD's were still your delivery medium.

@whoisp I enjoyed reading your post. It had a few points that related to my past experiences with the dawn of consumer digital gear. As I said earlier I was using 48 to master to a Sony DAT machine which had replaced my 10” reel to reel. I could definitely hear the improvement overall and mostly it was because I now had that nice clean and quiet sound. And a small item to mail in to replication people. Shortly after I bought the Yamaha o1v digital mixer and discovered it was set at 44.1 for SPDIF output. Dang. So I would mix both a 44.1 master via SPDIF and a 48 which involves D/A out to A/D in. Guess which one still sounded better. Later I got my first PC and soon was using Wave Lab and started transferring all my masters into Wave files. The Sound Blaster Audigy II card had optical inputs so I used that to transfer the DATs. I had already transferred my 10” tape to DAT at 48. I assumed they would be 48 but many years later I discovered that they are only 44.1. I have no clue why but no doubt the Sound Blaster is to blame. I later yet replaced that with a Interface that had SPDIF and used my O1v as the pre amps so a lot of stuff was recorded at 44.1.

Notice during recording there is a stereo track being created and the meter is showing as thus. On playback the waveform is mono and the left meter is active? So this is something you are doing weird in the routing. It should create the stereo track. This is possibly what you are hearing.

Thanks I couldn't find it. And that explains the mystery as the Zoom UAC 232 is listed as being 32 Bit Float. A rare beast. From that thread I guess I assumed that ALL Zoom interfaces where 32 bit. Bummer. It wasn't the reason I bought it but it might have been part of the Con list. If anyone does take the time to read that thread you will learn that @RexRed does strongly feel 32 bit recording is worth it. He makes some very good points and personal observations which I tend to respect and believe are possibly true. Sorry if some of you find the topic boring and over done but I'm still learning even after 60 years of music creation. And the Bottom line- What does it sound like! @Craig Anderton mentioned DAT machines. That was my first experience with 48 and even I could hear a difference between the masters I made back then as compared to when I was forced to use the 44.1 setting by the stupid CD replication factories. I mastered to 48 and then had a second machine to make the 44.1 copy which involved using the analog connections. Sony blocked copying your own creations! So I have my own reasons for liking 48 that go a long way back.

Yes using hardware takes dedication as it's actually a more advanced process than just using VST instruments. Some of us still use hardware because there are sounds in there that you don't have in a VST. I have a Korg 05r/w and a Sound Canvas plus a Roland 505 and a GR 50. The Sound Canvas and GR 50 are dust collectors because they don't have anything of interest to me the TTS-1 has that covered. But the Korg has some sounds that I have yet to replace and as far as I can see it was never emulated in a VST. It's a lifelong quest to collect sounds you really like and then you totally forget where you found them. At least with a VST it stays put in a project. The downside of hardware is if you later on need to make changes then it's a major hassle and if your like me I often forget to embed the bank and patch in the midi track because I just used the hardware's front panel to select the sound I wanted. I stopped doing that once I learn how to use the Instrument definitions. Lucky me the Korg was on the list.

Still waiting to hear back from Zoom. But I sort of know what the answer will be already. In the meantime I did a little digging and now realize that there's actually no mention of it being a 32 bit device anywhere. So now I am totally wondering where I was told this?? It might have been from another thread here a while ago where someone was wondering why their audio recorded with a Zoom R12?? was only 16 bit when they had been told it was 32 bit. I questioned that myself knowing what I new about the 24 bit max being standard. I remember the thread ended with you needed to select 32 bit in Audio Data settings. This is a setting I had never used in the past because since the beginning of time I assumed I was recording at 24 bit because that was the little greyed out box in Driver Settings. And of course I was not in the habit of looking at the Transport Module readings. Big mistake. Lucky for me since I bought the Scarlett 6i6 and later the Motu M4 all my new projects seems to have recorded at 24 bit. But older projects are a mix of 16 and 24? I think what can happen is, say I start a project using another interface ( my Tascam us1641) or even WASAPI mode then that project can default to 16 bit and you might not notice this. Bottom line is after all these years I now discover an important setting I was not really aware existed. ( my typical Cakewalk story) But, Hey, wait a minute, why is this setting sort of off the radar in an obscure place in preferences and not found with all the other audio settings?? And is this per project or global? So when I set up the Zoom I noticed right away that it was showing 48/16 in the transport Module. With my new found knowledge of the Audio Data settings box I knew what to do. The selection had 32 bit so what the heck, I checked it. Because of this thread and my attempt to get to the bottom of this I just now found that dialog box looks the same no matter what audio device you have connected. Even my Motu has the 32 bit option. So yes the Zoom Live Trak L8 is just another 24 bit Audio interface and now I need to go and remove the videos I made about it and change that setting back to 24. I will continue to leave dithering off like I most always have done. Thanks to everyone for pointing this out. Oh and also thanks to those would politely pointed out that there might be nothing wrong with using 44.1.

Think about why they made it free for a few years. I find Cakewalk is now on more lists of supported and tested DAWs with plug in vendors.