Mic pre to DI to interface?

[T Boog]

Hi guys. Im wanting to run my ART Tube MP mic pre into my interface. However, I just found out I'm not supposed to run a mic pre into the interface's mic pre. My interface (Audiobox usb96) also doesn't accept line level.

Couldn't I just use my DI box after the ART mic pre to lower the signal back down again, then into the interface's XLR input?  Thanks!

[Lord Tim]

So long as the levels are OK, there's no reason you can't run the XLR out of your mic pre into the XLR ins on the front of the Audiobox. These interfaces don't have specific mic/line/inst selection or pad switches, so I'd assume that they've got a pretty huge range on the input gain knobs. I'd try it and if it still clips then sure, nothing wrong with throwing a DI in the way and using the pad on that to get the levels down, but try the gain knob at its lowest settings first - the less stuff in the way of the chain, the better.

[Byron Dickens]

1 hour ago, T-Boog said:

Audiobox usb96 also doesn't accept line level.

Yes it does.

[John Vere]

I have an Art tube pre if yours is the same as mine it will have both XLR and line inputs and outputs.  
Your Audio box has Combo jack inputs which will take all impedances so I do believe if you connect the Art 1/4 output to the Audio Box with a 1/4” patch cable you will be fine. 

Worth mentioning is the Art actually doesn’t improve the sound and can actually sound worse.  But  you can modify and make improvements. This is due to the original tube is low quality and there’s really not enough juice from the wall wart to supply the tube. This is why tube amps have massive power transformers and capacitors. 

I have a bunch of pre amps and DI boxes and the Art is left over from my live sound days. It was a a great DI for live sound because of its wide range of input and output. Perfect  on cheap passive acoustic  guitar pick ups. The crappy sound is not noticeable under those circumstances but it’s not really a tool I would recommend for recording.  I put a   high quality tube in mine but it didn’t really help much. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by JohnnyV

[T Boog]

2 hours ago, Byron Dickens said:

Yes it does.

https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210044713-AudioBox-Series-Connecting-line-level-audio-source

Sorry to doubt u Byron but everything I've read on the usb96 says it's not designed for line level. Am I missing something?

[T Boog]

2 hours ago, JohnnyV said:

I have an Art tube pre if yours is the same as mine it will have both XLR and line inputs and outputs.  
Your Audio box has Combo jack inputs which will take all impedances so I do believe if you connect the Art 1/4 output to the Audio Box with a 1/4” patch cable you will be fine. 

Worth mentioning is the Art actually doesn’t improve the sound and can actually sound worse.  But  you can modify and make improvements. This is due to the original tube is low quality and there’s really not enough juice from the wall wart to supply the tube. This is why tube amps have massive power transformers and capacitors. 

I have a bunch of pre amps and DI boxes and the Art is left over from my live sound days. It was a a great DI for live sound because of its wide range of input and output. Perfect  on cheap passive acoustic  guitar pick ups. The crappy sound is not noticeable under those circumstances but it’s not really a tool I would recommend for recording.  I put a   high quality tube in mine but it didn’t really help much. 

Thanks John, good to hear from u.

Well, call it placebo effect but I think it sounds pretty smooth. Btw, I have been running it like u said... straight to interface with an unbalanced cable and it's worked fine. I just wanted to make sure I was getting the optimal gain levels and not damaging my interface 

However, I will do some A/B'ing with & without the Tube MP. If it sounds as good or better without it, I'll be happy to chunk it in the closet. Heck, one less thing to hook up. Cheers!

[Lord Tim]

I'd argue that if a device is so sensitive to a line level signal that it could need repairing is best suited for a nearby bin...!

I'd also argue that knowledge base article is kind of ridiculous and the results would be nowhere near as extreme as that.

[Byron Dickens]

1 hour ago, T-Boog said:

https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210044713-AudioBox-Series-Connecting-line-level-audio-source

Sorry to doubt u Byron but everything I've read on the usb96 says it's not designed for line level. Am I missing something?

There are MIDI in and out ports on the back of it, presumably so you can hook up your synthesizer. Knowing that midi data doesn't have any sound, how do they expect you to get the audio output from that synthesizer into your interface?

 

AudioBox USB 96

PreSonus’ all-time best-selling USB audio interface, now in sleek 25th-anniversary black

Record guitar and vocals at the same time: Two crystal-clear, class-A mic preamps with +48v provide power for condenser mics

Combo inputs let you record line-level sources like keyboards.

https://www.presonus.com/products/AudioBox-96-Studio

 

 

Looks to me like a couple of people down there need to get out of their damn cubicles and talk to each other once in awhile.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Byron Dickens

[T Boog]

1 hour ago, Lord Tim said:

I'd argue that if a device is so sensitive to a line level signal that it could need repairing is best suited for a nearby bin...!

I'd also argue that knowledge base article is kind of ridiculous and the results would be nowhere near as extreme as that.

Hey guys, this is what my Audiobox usb96 owners manual says...

"NOTE: Active instruments are those that have an internal preamp or a line level output. Active instruments should be plugged into a line input rather than into an instrument input. Plugging a line level source into the instrument inputs on the front of the Audiobox USB not only risk damage to these inputs but also results in a very loud and often distorted audio signal. In other words, don't plug a line level source into the combo jacks of channel 1 or 2."

I can attest that line signals are super loud thru my interface. That's why I bought a DI box. My interface is an older version though, maybe they've upgraded the inputs to now accept line level.

But it's all good guys. I'll just try it into the DI then A/B it with & without the Tube MP. Again, if it sounds just as good without it I'll nix the Tube MP altogether. Thanks for help guys!

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by T-Boog

[Lord Tim]

Yeah, there's definitely a good argument for some interfaces having some kind of pad in between the instrument and the device (the first gen Scarlett 2i2 devices were notorious for clipping with active instruments plugged in - that was fixed with 2nd gen onwards), but I think you'd have to really be pushing things pretty damn hard to actually do any damage. Certainly possible, but very unlikely.

But yeah, there's nothing wrong with throwing the DI in front if you do need to pad the signal, but if you can avoid it, I'd say that'll give you a cleaner signal.

[John Vere]

The Art, as I said above is a great tool because it has a huge range of input and output available. Turn it down using its output level, It IS an Active DI, so I don't see the need for an additional DI box between it and the interface. Before you do that try setting  it's output lower. 

Set the input of the Art experimenting with the pad and the input level until the desired sound is achieved without the clip light turning red. 

Set the input of your interface at about 10 or 12 O' Clock. ( this is a educated guess)   

starting at zero,   slowly turn it up the output level of the Art until the Interface peak level starts to clip and then back it off a bit until there is absolutely no sign of clipping, 

If the above is not going well, as in,  you end up with the output of the Art almost off and the Interface gain at 8 O'clock, then for sure there is a severe impedance miss match. 

When I used it on a live stage it was always going through a snake to the mixer and that for sure was into a pre amp. I never had an issue. As I said it's great to kick up the whimpy output of passive instruments. I would also run keyboards through it with no issues. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by JohnnyV

[rsinger]

12 hours ago, JohnnyV said:

... and there’s really not enough juice from the wall wart to supply the tube. This is why tube amps have massive power transformers and capacitors. 

Just an FYI. Massive transformers aren't required for preamp tubes, note preamps like the ADA MP-1 that fit in a 1 rack slot. Today boost converters have become popular - it's not uncommon to see people boost a 9v wall wart up to the 200v range for preamp tubes. Boost converters are a type of switched mode power supply.

 

[T Boog]

4 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

Yeah, there's definitely a good argument for some interfaces having some kind of pad in between the instrument and the device (the first gen Scarlett 2i2 devices were notorious for clipping with active instruments plugged in - that was fixed with 2nd gen onwards), but I think you'd have to really be pushing things pretty damn hard to actually do any damage. Certainly possible, but very unlikely.

But yeah, there's nothing wrong with throwing the DI in front if you do need to pad the signal, but if you can avoid it, I'd say that'll give you a cleaner signal.

Thanks Tim. That makes sense. Presonus is prob just wanting users to play it extra safe. I've broke that 'no line signal' rule myself a few times and the interface still works fine. So it's def not super delicate. Cheers!

[T Boog]

1 hour ago, rsinger said:

Just an FYI. Massive transformers aren't required for preamp tubes, note preamps like the ADA MP-1 that fit in a 1 rack slot. Today boost converters have become popular - it's not uncommon to see people boost a 9v wall wart up to the 200v range for preamp tubes. Boost converters are a type of switched mode power supply.

 

Thanks bud. Yeah I've heard of voltage multipliers. I also know there's a lot of "tube" pedals where the tube does basically nothing. Snake oil aside, I find the ART smooths out the high end and fattens things up. And if I'm delusional... I'm okay with that too 🙃

[T Boog]

4 hours ago, JohnnyV said:

The Art, as I said above is a great tool because it has a huge range of input and output available. Turn it down using its output level, It IS an Active DI, so I don't see the need for an additional DI box between it and the interface. Before you do that try setting  it's output lower. 

Set the input of the Art experimenting with the pad and the input level until the desired sound is achieved without the clip light turning red. 

Set the input of your interface at about 10 or 12 O' Clock. ( this is a educated guess)   

starting at zero,   slowly turn it up the output level of the Art until the Interface peak level starts to clip and then back it off a bit until there is absolutely no sign of clipping, 

If the above is not going well, as in,  you end up with the output of the Art almost off and the Interface gain at 8 O'clock, then for sure there is a severe impedance miss match. 

When I used it on a live stage it was always going through a snake to the mixer and that for sure was into a pre amp. I never had an issue. As I said it's great to kick up the whimpy output of passive instruments. I would also run keyboards through it with no issues. 

Thanks John. I was actually running it like u said... with input set high & output set low and it wasn't clipping my interface and sounded nice. I think you & Tim are right that I'm prob fine without the DI. I also didn't realize that a DI box could degrade the sound. I'll just keep using it like it is. If my interface ever dies, I'll make sure the next one is designed to accept line levels. Thanks for the wisdom guys.

[JnTuneTech]

I still use a few analog tools with analog patching - when bringing in XLR balanced to a mic-level input that may not be very adjustable, there are adapters for that.

Especially if you are worried about some kind of input mismatch on the level that might overload something.  In the picture is one of a pair I have used for years (together with an XLR gender change adapter), on and off stage, mostly just to extend unbalanced cable runs with less RF interference, but also just to match the levels without so much input switching involved.  -Since this one is passive, it does roll off the high frequencies a bit, sometimes a DI box with adjustable response can sound better.  Lots of choices.

[T Boog]

16 minutes ago, JnTuneTech said:

I still use a few analog tools with analog patching - when bringing in XLR balanced to a mic-level input that may not be very adjustable, there are adapters for that.

Especially if you are worried about some kind of input mismatch on the level that might overload something.  In the picture is one of a pair I have used for years (together with an XLR gender change adapter), on and off stage, mostly just to extend unbalanced cable runs with less RF interference, but also just to match the levels without so much input switching involved.  -Since this one is passive, it does roll off the high frequencies a bit, sometimes a DI box with adjustable response can sound better.  Lots of choices.

Thanks my friend. Good to learn about the high end roll off thing too. Since my DI is a super cheap passive one, I'm sure there's plenty of that going on. The good news however is that I'm a stellar musician. So no amount of sound degradation can mask my immense talent. 💪

[rsinger]

1 hour ago, T-Boog said:

Thanks bud. Yeah I've heard of voltage multipliers. I also know there's a lot of "tube" pedals where the tube does basically nothing. Snake oil aside, I find the ART smooths out the high end and fattens things up. And if I'm delusional... I'm okay with that too 🙃

If you like the sound that's what's important. IIRC the Chandler Tube Driver used a starved plate design and David Gilmour, Eric Johnson and others used it. The sounds the thing.

[John Vere]

@rsinger    I think my information was from years ago probably on Gear Space (Slutz back then) and it was a discussion about using the Art Tube pre. If you are familiar with Gear Space you know what gear snobs are all about . But everyone seemed to agree it needed a new tube so I did that. I think I used a Groove Tube which was sort of all you could find back then ( 2005? )

Which also brings up the fact mine might be pretty bagged out after all those years. This thread has me thinking a new 12ax7 might be worth the $40 to see if it would sound better. I tried it with a vocal mike a while ago just for kicks and it wasn't something I liked at all.

Anybody have recommendations for decent quality tubes? I'm out of touch with that. I should re tube my Gibson Skylark as well. When I owned the Music store I had a Tube tester the local "TV and radio" shop guy gave me.  I have no clue where it went? 

Edited July 22, 2023 by JohnnyV

[T Boog]

7 minutes ago, JohnnyV said:

@rsinger    I think my information was from years ago probably on Gear Space (Slutz back then) and it was a discussion about using the Art Tube pre. If you are familiar with Gear Space you know what gear snobs are all about . But everyone seemed to agree it needed a new tube so I did that. I think I used a Groove Tube which was sort of all you could find back then ( 2005? )

Which also brings up the fact mine might be pretty bagged out after all those years. This thread has me thinking a new 12ax7 might be worth the $40 to see if it would sound better. I tried it with a vocal mike a while ago just for kicks and it wasn't something I liked at all.

Anybody have recommendations for decent quality tubes? I'm out of touch with that. I should re tube my Gibson Skylark as well. When I owned the Music store I had a Tube tester the local "TV and radio" shop guy gave me.  I have no clue where it went? 

First, I'm very jealous of ur Skylark John. Those amps sound amazing. Second, My dad told me I could have his tube tester when he died but my brother, thinking it was just some "mad scientist" gadget, threw it in the garbage. (That one still hurts 🥺)

But yeah, although  the Tube MP gets very mixed reviews, a lot of home studio guys swear by it , esp for tracking bass. I hope u do try it again. I'd be curious to know how it works out for u.