Groove Clip Echoes

[Seth Gamba]

Here is the scenario:

I have recorded 4 measures of the built in metronome at 120 to an audio track using patch points.  I've trimmed it and converted it to a groove clip so I can loop it out as far as I want to or change tempos.  After converting the audio track to a groove clip, I'm getting several conditions that are resulting in hearing double clicks on each beat - as if there's a slapback delay on it.

It's less bad if, before converting to a groove clip, I record one extra click and then slip edit that one out than it is if I stop recording after the beat 4 click and then extend my selection to the start of the next measure.  Sometimes, the doubled beats show up immediately upon conversion, sometimes I'm not getting them unless I change the tempo of the track say from 120 down to 90.

Can anyone give me a little wisdom here?  What I'm really trying to set up is a template file with a flexible audio track metronome.

Thanks,
Seth

 

[reginaldStjohn]

My suggestion would be use a midi source for your metronome. It will move with the tempo much more transparently then an audio file. If you you want it as audio then freeze it or bounce to audio. If your audio file is changed too much in time it will always have artifacts.

For your groove clip solution have you looked at the Reference Guide pp765. It may give some clues or things to try.

You could also try elastique time stretching from the audioSnap pallet (RG pg. 691)

[Seth Gamba]

Thank you for the suggestion!  
Let me paint the picture a little more fully here: I am an Orchestra teacher struggling with how to keep learning going amidst school system shutdowns.  I'm also a moderator on a large facebook group of Orchestra teachers who are collaborating on ideas and techniques.  We are all looking for ways to get our students playing together.  I am a longtime Cakewalk user and have a semi-professional recording studio, and I think Cakewalk can fill an important void - especially now that there's free access.  If I want to get click tracks into my projects, I can do it a number of ways that don't involve the problem I ran into in my original question.  That said, I really don't know my way around the looping capabilities of Cakewalk very well.  I'm a play-it-live sort of guy.  Frankly, I am more than a bit surprised by how not so well it's working.

Here is a link to a short Logic tutorial that got me started on this: https://youtu.be/Btaiy4jjpEg.  When we are setting up projects for our students to do these multi-player videos that you see all around, we have to provide guide tracks with parts and metronome for the kids to play along with.  Most teachers don't know their way around the DAW/recording world.  They are getting a crash course in it right now.  So, my thought was I could make a Cakewalk tutorial video similar to this Logic video showing the same capabilities and how easy it is to get going. 

Getting the click into an audio track using patch points is easy.  My personal workflow from there would be to trim the metronome track and then do a Copy/Paste Special... and specify the number of repetitions I need.  Still very easy.  That does not, however, give the ability to change tempos without having to redo the click track.  It seems like the groove clip thing should be an easy way to do that, but it's turning out to be somehow buggy.

Anything I pass on to my group of teachers has to be nearly idiot proof because so many of them are brand new to this world and already overwhelmed trying to figure it out.  Anything about hooking up external midi gear or even having to set up soft synths in instrument tracks is way too much.  I'm afraid trying to get through audio snap is probably also too much.

Sorry to be so wordy, but now with the whole story told, suggestions are welcome!

-based on the suggestions, I tried setting the clip to "Clip Follows Project" in audiosnap.  I pasted the clip out a bunch of times and after I changed the tempo from 120 to 90, there was all manner of weirdness there too.  The tempo actually floated around quite a lot and every so often, I would get two beat 1 clicks in different places.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Seth Gamba

[Seth Gamba]

Been playing around with this, and so far, this is the best workaround I've found for getting a tempo-changeable audio metronome loop without artifacts:

Record 2 bars +1 beat of metronome at 120.  Trim it to exactly 2 bars.  Copy & Paste Special for the required number of repetitions.

When you need to change the tempo, delete all but the first clip of metronome.  In the Groove Clip Properties (found under the Clip tab in the Inspector pane) check Stretch To Tempo.  Now change the tempo to 90 (or whatever).  Copy & Paste Special for the required number of repetitions.  I now have audio track metronome at a new tempo without having to completely redo it.  It seems that you cannot select Looping and Stretch to Tempo at the same time.

The steps here are slightly involved, but not too bad.  Still seems like there might be a simpler way (like if the Groove Clip loop function just worked the way it's supposed to around tempo changes.)  I would still love to have thoughts and suggestions.

[scook]

Try this

• Record 1 Bar of the metronome
• Select the clip, open the Loop Construction View and in the LCV
  • Click the Loop button
  • Set the Slice drop down to "No Slice"
• Roll out the clip and try different tempos

Instead of rolling out the clip, the Matrix View may be used to play the clip.

 

[Seth Gamba]

Scook - Thank you!

Your suggestion worked really well and is very easy.

I did find that as I got farther away from the original tempo, the loop wasn't perfectly aligned with the project tempo.  If I turned on the Metronome During Playback, the click would be slightly off.  The further away I was from the original tempo, the more distance there was between the metronome click and the audio click and it happened for both faster and slower tempos.  That said, the audio click track was steady and sounded as it should.  So, if someone wanted to do a big tempo change, they could still use their audio click track, they would just have to disable Metronome During Record.

[Seth Gamba]

Made the video.  Here's the link if you'd like to check it out.  Share if you think it might help someone.