Teegarden

So you're sure it was working on the former version of CbB, crashed when updated to the early release and after that the former version didn't work anymore unlike before updating? Also, did you install and try the latest version: Seems like something has been corrupted and maybe a reinstall or clean install of the former version might be worth trying (although that can be quite some hassle), or maybe you can revert your whole system with Windows system restore or a backup from Acronis etc.) and see if the problem is gone, that way you're sure it is related to the latest CbB version. I've seen several different reports about iZotope issues. It would definitely send them the crash dumps, next to sending them to the bakers (maybe they find something useful in the crash dump as well), as advised in the announcement of the latest CbB release: If you're convinced it is related to the latest release you can report it here as well: 202104-feedback Here you find the general problem reporting info: better-problem-reporting IZotope is going to work closely together with Native Instruments. So, any CbB incompatibility that between iZotope and CbB might worst case further extend to NI products as well in the future. Hopefully they are willing to take reported issues with CbB serious and find a solution.

"Limited group" compared to the millions of new users CbB hopefully is going to attract 😬 I don't use Ctrl+D in Windows myself, the response was actually meant to an earlier post which related to other topics discussing better Windows workflow compatibility. I think the legacy on/off option might be able to satisfy most if not everyone. Sorry for going off topic...🥴

Hi Noel, I was too quick upvoting that particular post. However the underlying issue still stands. There are still shortcuts/operations that are not in line with standard Windows use. I guess its much easier for the limited group of long term CbB/Sonar users to change to new shortcuts (since they probably already use them for normal Windows operations anyway) than it is for many new users (which I expect CbB will attract especially with the brilliant new Bandlab integration) to have to learn new shortcuts that go against the way they are used to. Once in a while I still find myself also wasting time trying to do something in CbB after which I realise it is done differently (counterintuitively) in CbB. The more logical, the easier new users will feel at home with the DAW (or am I dreaming?🧐). Its not the first time this discussion comes up. Is it not possible to add an option in Preferences where you can choose for legacy shortcuts/behaviour or new shortcuts that are in line with the operating system? Btw, very impressive the ongoing list of bug fixes combined with new very useful features. It certainly keeps CbB on par with or even on top of the professional DAWs! @Lonnie Dawkins, it is the Waves plugin crashing, not CbB. You're not alone, see this topic:

You regularly report bugs, which is great. If those 10+ producers also report those issues each time they occur CbB will soon become a DAW outperforming in stability (as far as is possible with the infinite number of different hard/software installs and projects...). From what you can see on the forum, issues directly reported to the bakers are handled fast and well (I've got the impression the last few months even more than before, maybe because after introducing large very welcome additions, there's now more focus on the lasting bugs?) so if your friends participate that will be for the good of everyone.

Which driver have you installed? Focusrite had problems with CbB and released a driver beta driver to solve this: • Improved an issue that could cause glitching in WASAPI applications • Improved an issue that could cause glitching in WDM applications at 44.1/48kHz sample rate, 1024 sample buffer size • No longer teardown WDM filters when changing buffer size • Fixed an issue that could cause a crash in Cakewalk by Bandlab • Fixed an issue that could cause some WDM filters to fail to automatically populate on computer restart

@Pete Brown I like the way you guide a user through the whole tweaking process! Just read your power plan switching guide update. It might be easier for most users to just install PowerBuddy. No need to use the command prompt. It installs a little taskbar button which let's you immediately choose any of the Power Plans you have configured in the Windows Power Options menu. I use it all the time when changing between DAW and other PC tasks.

@garybrun, please find my template in the link as promised! The template is a combination of several template tutorials I’ve followed: Mainly Building a DAW Mix Template (since I consider that one the most useful for my workflow and kind of recording –mainly pop, jazz, rock, soundtrack, classical- hardly any EDM) and some others worth mentioning: Andrew Scheps mixing & template tips, and Mikael Baggström’s Youtube channel (who gives his own interesting twist to templates and workflow) Notes: Notes field: contains guidelines about calculating time settings for delay and compressor Many tracks and busses have info (Track Properties -> Description) that explains what and why All tracks (repair, test drum, test vox, reference tracks, Mock-up) that are not meant to be in the mix are routed to the NoMix bus (clearly visible, in order to avoid mistakenly messing up the mix), which is muted when mixing Orchestral tracks are limited for scenarios. I’m planning to make a separate full orchestral template. Metronome bus is placed to be the separation between instruments and FX busses Master bus inserts => FreeG (very clear, big faders for gain staging - found thanks to CbB Gain Staging, one of the great tutorials of @Creative Sauce)+ AB plugins I haven’t figured out yet which EQ settings are the best start per track/bus. So far, I’ve mainly shelved off some low frequencies in a part of the tracks in order to start with a little cleaner signal. Also, still figuring out what FX settings would be most efficient as a start point for each of the busses in the template. Feedback on this (and other parts of the template) is very welcome! Remarks: Having many plugins preloaded (even when all are frozen/inactive) as was shown in the tutorial I’ve followed made loading the template annoyingly slow (despite a using a Threadripper PC with fast SSDs). However, having all preferred plugins readily available already inserted where you need them has been proven to save me lots of time. While making the template I noticed that is very easy to lose custom colours (for some reason the ones I save are lost after a while from the colour options menu)) and that it is not so easy to copy a colour from let’s say a bus to a track folder. I noticed after uploading the template there are still some colours different from what I intended In the link are the template + pictures with my mainly custom icons used in the template (the custom pictures are not saved with the template, I think it should be optional to choose to do so or leave them in the standard icons folder). I’ve tried to insert pictures in my posts, but dragging them into the post field has not worked and uploading them to another server and inserting a hyperlink has also not worked. No clue what goes wrong? Template in the link below: CbB template

same here

FWIW I've almost never succeeded repairing something with Microsoft's troubleshooter or advice directly from MS forums. If you look on MS' own forums you find many people complaining about the unprofessional answers and lack of knowledge of the MS help desks each time turning in circles. Often it is another user that found a way to deal with the problem and helps others out. Like Noel, I also have experienced this in the past and had to reinstall. In some cases a more thorough system repair can solve the problem. This is a typical MS problem and extremely annoying. Sometime TheWindowsClub has answers that can help you out. They also have some handy free tools. I just found their FixWin tool that has a few extra options not available in Windows10Manager. You could give that one a last try...

That error code is related to failing Windows update. There are several ways you can try to solve this. The Windows Club gives a few clear options explained with graphics (but don't download their PC repair tool, I don't know it and when I downloaded to check it my virus scanner gave some warnings). If that's not working, this website provides also has some alternative options: TechinPost There could also be some system files corrupt or missing. An easy and save program like Windows10Manager has all the Windows 10 repair options in easy accessible tabs. I think you can still download a free trial version. If so, it is definitely recommended. Saves you the hassle of trying to find and execute all of the instructions for each repair item. But of course, you can also do these repair steps manually. One of them is system file checker, the others you can Google yourself (component store corruption, Component Store / System Files Corruption, WMI repair, reset windows update, system restore troubleshooting, MSI repair) Please let me know if anything helps you out. If not, I'm happy to look further.

Wow, been a long time since I witnessed lack of internet access. That's very unfortunate... Well, as long as Windows is several versions behind, there might be at least part of the problem. From what I understand your connection is better now, so first I would try to update Windows (make sure to backup the whole system if possible and also -since your trouble shooting an instable environment- : after any new software installation a registry backup (delete the older ones if you get too many) so you can always return to a previous situation => Windows start => type "system protection" => click "System Restore" => click "configure" and switch system protection on and choose a maximum amount of disk space for the registry backups. (make sure your HD/SSD is not choking -has sufficient empty space- and in good health!) Windows10 had some audio related changes under the hood over the last few years, so that might have an effect. Don't forget to update the runtimes (see the all-in-one installer in my first reply). After that let's see what else could be done if CbB still cannot be updated or is showing other problems. I don't think you can be blamed for trying to update🤔 Seems that the problem lies in the way Edge (or just Edge runtime/webview ?) is being installed on your system. If installed right it's not resource consuming as long as it is not opened. I wouldn't worry about that. Something went wrong with the Edge install on your system. I would try to focus on getting that right. Don't forget that next to MS, other developers (like plugin companies) also stop supporting Win7 and that chances will only keep growing that an insuperable incompatibility will occur...For your current setup Cockos works at this moment, but they also will face the inevitable, incompatible surrounding pieces of software, that is. If you want to benefit from new hardware and software (if you're ever considering a new system) the most recent Win10 is your best bet. Most people I know that upgraded OS are quite happy in the end (apart from the occasional Windows update bugs, which is why it is advisable delay automatic updates!).

Only trying to help, since OP seemed to ask for input that could get him back on track... If I ask that, it is because I've been able to help several musicians with different DAWs in my neighbourhood by checking systematically what happened when they had problems...Checking software versions and types of hardware are part of that...(I should have asked for more info on hardware and software, my bad) It was a simple question, just to understand more about the working environment of @bdickens's system in order to try to pinpoint a problem. Win7 is still popular among many DAW users, but not supported by Microsoft anymore and CbB does not actively support this anymore as far as I know. Also, the update version of Win10 matters, regularly things go haywire with a new Windows update. You can't just blame CbB, there could be a number of reasons other than the DAW itself being the culprit. As explained by @msmcleod in this thread Microsoft Edge, it is a not-neglectable part of Windows 10 and CbB apparently uses a related part for its installation. There are a few others who had problems with it as well, so maybe the latest CbB version needs to be smoothed out, for OP it also could be plugin related, who knows? Regarding common sense, not everyone reads everything and communicates everything in a way that everybody will always understand everything (what a sentence...). So in order to help someone, sometimes questions that are obvious for most will still make sense. I agree that in this case a warning by CbB about Edge would be sensible. Sorry to hear that your system was messed up with an update. Other than The only way to find out what goes wrong is step by step checking where it what has changed. OP could at least try some of the suggestions or let me know why they could not help him. There was an error code that could be followed up and from what I thought was reported a certain file was not accessible or could not be updated. Sometimes that can easily be solved. It is impossible for any developer to make sure that an update works out of the box for everyone due to the virtually infinite combinations of hardware and software. In the meantime operating system and other software and hardware drivers also keep changing making it even harder to provide a 100% compatible solution. So once in a while you can be the unlucky one. Many other user have not reported this problem, so it is probably working for the vast majority. I guess we've all been there and way too much the DAW was blamed for something that eventually was caused by something else... I had huge instability problems after the last CbB update, which in the end appeared to be caused by Waves v12. Forums of other DAWs also reported similar problems with Waves v12, and uninstalling and going back to v11 fixed it. But first reaction is often: my DAW is buggy...

Are you running an older version of Windows? The error code can come from a number of things (below some I could find): When the online activation fails, a number of problems can result in a failure with error code 0x80072EE7 According to the Microsoft Knowledgebase: "The 0x80072EE7 error code may occur if the client computer cannot find the correct IP address when it tries to resolve a URL for the Windows Update Web site or for the Microsoft Update Web site. This error may occur if the Hosts file contains a static IP address." Found in the field: The OOBE (Out Of Box Experience) has not been finished, but the Operating System has been set in "Audit Mode" with the key combination Ctrl + Shift + F3. In this case the OS cannot be activated online either. Not only this error code will be shown, but the OS will also complain "No product key found" Corrupted windows System files Network connection configuration Registry Repair Viruses Windows device update and drivers Here are some tips in order to try to fix these: fixforwindows Did you try to restore a registry backup? Windows start => type "system protection" => click "System Restore" => click "next" => choose a date where your system was still working (if there are any made before your last updates...). After that I would first check update Windows update => Windows start button => "settings" => "Update & Security" => "check for updates", install if there are any. Also click "view optional updates" if there are any and check if you want them installed, there could be a newer driver or other useful update Then check if all your drivers are up to date. You can use a free program like Dumo to see which drivers need to be updated. Preferably, get each from its own homepage Don't forget to update visual C runtimes (all updates in one installer in the hyperlink) and maybe Java and .Net (this one is supposed to be included in the Windows updates) Make sure the latest Microsoft Edge is well installed and updated... Now I would try to update CbB (everything with administration rights! => right-click each file you need to install and select "Run as administrator") If a file can't be updated it is often because it is in use and/or not being updated with administrator rights. Check in "Task Manager" if you can find the file running. If so, right click the file and select "end task" and try updating again . Check if everything works when updated. Next update the other software you had previously updated one by one and check after each installation first if CbB still works well. Maybe it was one of the plugins that also created problems You can check what other software needs an update by using a free program like Sumo (and get desired updates from each program's homepage) Maybe you can also find some answers in this thread: I hope this helps!

@Noel Borthwick Thanks for trying to improve multicore AMD performance! I finally found some time to compare behaviour between the November version and latest CbB. I don't know how to report in detail, since the performance parameters in the control bar change all the time (I don't get how to interpret it). Anyway, here's my attempt: I opened a project with many tracks and busses and lots of instruments and FX preloaded and let it run for several minutes, after which I noted the performance parameters. Threadripper 1950X 16 core, 32 threads RME PCIe AIO soundcard 24-bit, 96kHz, 64-bit double precision Engine 2020.11.099 latency ThreadSchedulingModel Audio processing Engine Load Late Buffers 256 buffer effective latency 2.7 ms, ASIO reported latencies: input 3.1, output 3.7, total roundtrip 6.8ms 2 8,54% (Max.45.18%) 59.0% (Max 117.1%) 53 256 buffer effective latency 2.7 ms, ASIO reported latencies: input 3.1, output 3.7, total roundtrip 6.8ms 3 7,15% (Max.38.60%) 70.1% (Max 83.5%) 0 128 buffer effective latency 1.3 ms, ASIO reported latencies: input 1.8, output 2.3, total roundtrip 4.1ms 2 3.85% (Max.46.78%) 87.3% (Max 156.4%) 5756 128 buffer effective latency 1.3 ms, ASIO reported latencies: input 1.8, output 2.3, total roundtrip 4.1ms 3 10.48% (Max.45.90%) 113.3% (Max 141.1%) 4660 2021.01 Update 1 256 buffer effective latency 2.7 ms, ASIO reported latencies: input 3.1, output 3.7, total roundtrip 6.8ms 2 7,66% (Max.35.66%) 58.5% (Max 107.5%) 3 256 buffer effective latency 2.7 ms, ASIO reported latencies: input 3.1, output 3.7, total roundtrip 6.8ms 3 6,64% (Max.42.63%) 76.3% (Max 94.1%) 0 128 buffer effective latency 1.3 ms, ASIO reported latencies: input 1.8, output 2.3, total roundtrip 4.1ms 2 12.28% (Max.46.34%) 87.3% (Max 239.0%) 11487 128 buffer effective latency 1.3 ms, ASIO reported latencies: input 1.8, output 2.3, total roundtrip 4.1ms 3 10.90% (Max.44.75%) 109.4% (Max 144.9%) 7343 From what I can conclude so far: ThreadSchedulingModel 3 is much better in any scenario when looking at late buffers. For the rest, the figures change too often (for me at least) to jump to conclusions. I'm really impressed with the bug fixes and new features. CbB has been working like a charm the first hour of recording after my test . No bugs or sound interruptions, clicks or plops so far (I use standard 256 buffer, ThreadSchedulingModel 3). Great work!!

You really make me hesitate...🧐

Thanks for the clear answer! I guess that's not the case when your PC power profile is set to maximum performance all the time (and good cooling to avoid throtling)? And what is the influence of the soundcard regarding latency? I've got a ten year old RME PCIe AIO card that gives effective latency of 2.7 ms with 256 buffer, 24bit, 96kHz, 64 bit double precision buffer (ASIO reported latencies: input 3.1, output 3.7, total roundtrip 6.8ms). That seem relatively good figures to me (working without glitches when all unnecessary background processes are eliminated)? And the fastest PCIe 4.0 SSD's? Don't they also improve latency? The 10900k has only PCIe 3.0... I agree regarding the cost/performance of the 10900k, but I'm quite interested in the new AMD, will just wait till its available at reasonable price🙂

That's what I wondered about from the start, why on earth do I have problems when my CPU performance is at 15-20%? After some time I started to understand that it is more the engine load and late buffers that indicate if there's a problem. Even a slightly older CPU should still be up to recording an average project without too many problems. My impression (after reading tons of topics) in our case is that it has to do with the impaired internal latency of the former generations AMD CPUs, unfortunately. I guess @Jim Roseberry can say more about this. I've managed to improve performance by tweaking my Threadripper system to the max, but at the cost of way too many unproductive hours and now my hardware is starting to wear out. So now, when I can finally record something decent, I might need to replace things again🤔. No clue how much attention under the hood optimisation has compared to new features. As good as each new release I see improvements that also relate to latency and overall speed. It needs to be a fair balance to keep the majority happy. My impression is that we are in the minority group (most users seem to be reasonably satisfied, Intel systems...?), so probably not first in line to be served. And if it really is the AMD internal latency problem the only real solution is getting the latest hardware. There's a recent topic that I can't find back where they were referring to that (I guess it was a comparison with Reaper that doesn't crash when a plugin fails) and gave a hyperlink to a webpage explaining that separate plugin sandboxing like in other DAWs is not a solution in the end. I do need to add that I don't really suffer much from instability. My main problem was latency related at lower buffer settings. Did I mention that I have 32GB RAM so I switched of my paging file? That might also have helped. And since two weeks I've slightly overclocked my system (many advice not to do so, but I like to think that I know what I'm doing, so...) . Temperatures have not really gone up (got a good cooling), but everything is much more responsive. No crashes so far. With ryzen-dram-calculator you can find stable better settings for you RAM. It gives significant improvements. Next to that (at least for my Threadripper), the CPU is also flexible with slight overclocking (I use Ryzen Master to do so). If you consider such thing, read carefully the overclock forums first! I hope to have the budget in a couple of months... Anyway, there's a shortages of the top Ryzen CPUs, so they are overprized at the moment. I think that in about 4 months prizes and availability will be better. Thinking about the Ryzen 5900X or 5950X + 128 GB 3600 RAM. Also there are new, faster PCIe 4.0 SSDs coming out with 2 to 4 TB. I would like to see how they compare in tests the coming months. I'm especially looking at the Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus 4TB SSD (thinking about getting 2 of those). GPU: one just under the top (because of the outrages cost for the fastest). Still waiting for info on whether a Radeon or NVidia is better compatible with a DAW and which one plays better with Ryzen. There have been some significant changes and improvements on both sides... I can survive till then. CbB works right now and I can do all the other things I need to do too. My real time backups ensure no risks in case of crashes.

Agreed, from what I can see the CbB team does take possible bugs in the DAW itself serious. They are a small team with limited resources, so many things will be on the waiting list, probably with lower priority. I guess that's the downside of a free DAW, but I can live with that. I still think that it outperforms many paid DAWs and they've squeezed an impressive amount of bugs over the last two years. Sorry to hear about the many reinstalls (just CbB or the whole Windows operating system?), which is certainly not what most users need to do. There must be something specific to your configuration that makes it worse compared to most other PCs. What I do know, DAW independent, is that Windows becomes buggy over time. After a few years a PC really from a complete reinstall if you frequently use more complicated software. The majority of users will not notice these problems, but with complex audio-visual software or other professional software I've witnessed this regularly. Also, another piece of software on your machine might mess with windows settings, negatively influencing a DAW without you being aware of it. My system is not even four years old and I'm already looking forward to later this year when I hope to be able to afford a new one with an AMD 5900X or 5950X. My current PC is showing degradation of the EVO 960 PCIe SSD and other problems are starting to show up (and my first gen Threadripper is not yet optimised for audio latency). Software and probably also hardware issues are slowly getting worse. I use the machine heavily, so its no surprise. All electronic components are prone to damage due to changing currents and temperatures. Usually minor, but over time they might lead to problems and sensitive software will suffer faster from it than a simple text writer or game. I've witnessed this kind of issues from the moment I've started building computers for myself and others 30 years ago. Having said that, CbB graphics handling can certainly be improved. The team seems aware of that. In the last updates there were already some changes of memory management, also relating to the graphics buffers from what I understood. Let's hope they continue improving on that path. A well installed solid new GPU might provide some benefit. If you've got an NVidia card you can do the following: NVCleanstall for a clean driver install without extras and to make sure there's nothing from NVidia installaions left: Nvidia Control Panel | Manage 3D settings, set "Power Management Mode" to "Prefer Maximum Performance" uninstall NVidia Experience disable NVidia telemetry: NvTmMon -- Nvidia Telemetry Monitor -- runs C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\Update Core\NvTmMon.exe, NvTmRep -- Nvidia crash and Telemetry Reporter -- runs C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\Update Core\NvTmRep.exe NvTmRepOnLogon -- Nvidia Profile Updater -- runs C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\Update Core\NvTmRep.exe --logon) Did you also check the difference between VST2 and VST3 of the problem plugins? Steinberg didn't do a great job regarding compatibility when defining these standards...

Yes, the problem with problems is that the cause often is not clear...

That Facebook post is a very nice example of how complicated and demanding DAWs are and how problems in many cases are related to hardware and configuration and not necessarily to the DAW itself (not saying that DAWs are bug free..)!

@Colin Nicholls Thanks for the clear tutorial. I wish they would finally make a CbB webpage where there's a collection of all animated GIF tutorials. I think it works much better than just reading boring manuals (maybe it's just me, but I prefer trial and error over standard manuals. However, the animated one I do like to follow). Btw, I love the music on your website. Did you compose and record it all yourself? Very musical and original...Is it you singing? Nice clear voice! I'm really impressed👍

Hard to judge what's going on without seeing it. Usually in Device Manager you can right-click a device and select "disable device". Do you run everything with administrator rights? Here's a link to programs that might help you: 6 Tools to Forcefully Enable Grayed Out Disabled Buttons

It was meant to be ironic🧐. I meant so overly processed and polished, that any natural origin is lost, and so is the soul/emotion of the voice. There's a simple, one fits all solution to this: use analog emulations to the max😄 (oh, and don't over-quantize😘)

Glad you liked it. It think that everyone who's using a DAW should at least see a video like this once to really understand what he's doing. I'm al the time trying to get mixes sound as analog as possible, just because it sound way more pleasant and especially less exhausting to my ears... And then there's the virtually unlimited number of ways you can use that to create different sounds, fitting different styles. Regarding music from the past, todays vocals are virtually perfect and regularly slightly electronic thanks to Antares and alike. Recordings from the sixties and seventies don't sound perfect, are not always perfectly timed and are sometimes even false, but at least to me they sound warmer with lots of character and more emotion, exactly what I'm missing from todays recordings. And just like you say about the every day consumer products, in the analog studies there's been tons of development to get sounds perfected. No wonder there are so many plugin developers trying to get introduce the "latest, best emulation" of the renown analog hardware consoles and FX processors, including tape saturation.

I think the following video gives some nice insights on this topic: Why Are Synths So Difficult To Mix???