Larry Jones

1 minute ago, msmcleod said:

The 2i4 doesn't use MixControl - only 6i6 and above do.

Well, there goes that opportunity...

32 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

I’ve got the 2i4 so I’ll give it a go. 

Do you currently use Mix Control (for cue mixes)? If so, I'd be interested in your take on the difference between that and Focusrite Control, which comes with the 2nd gen driver. Either way, let us know what you think.

6 hours ago, msmcleod said:

To be honest, I find it a bit confusing myself. It's the same mix app for both my 6i6 and my 18i20.

Good to know I'm not alone. I've seen the YouTube tutorial you linked to -- came away thinking "He's leaving something out." Still not sure what. If I don't find a better way, I'll try Groove 3.

5 hours ago, Cactus Music said:

I opened mix control and lo and behold I started to see how it worked.

I see generally how it works -- I just don't like it, and I'm no good at using it. When there are other people in the studio, I feel like I have to be good (and fast) at everything. Looking forward to a tutorial, Johnny. Let us know!

4 hours ago, mettelus said:

...my advice would be to take advantage of the "Save as" function.

Thanks @mettelus! If I end up having to use it, I'll take your advice.

1 hour ago, Clint Martin said:

I have a gen 2 6i6 on reverb now for $189.

@Clint Martin - 2nd gen uses "Focusrite Control," which is different from "Mix Control." Have you found it to be better?

21 minutes ago, CJ Jacobson said:

That looks like a que mix to me, all audio interface mixers are like that. That one is pretty straight forward. its nice!

You got it. That's what I said in my original post. In actual practice, I have not found it to be nice. I've found it to be hard to work with, and as a result I don't use it. It's part of the driver for the Scarlett 6i6. As far as I know, it's the only way I can set up cue mixes with the 6i6, which is why I'm looking around for other devices with better cue mix software.

5 minutes ago, CJ Jacobson said:

For that, you will need a headphone amp/mixer

Done. I'm looking for an improvement on this:

@CJ Jacobson & @Jim Roseberry: Thanks guys! I guess I wasn't clear. I'm trying to find a USB interface with better (easier to use) routing software, so I can create multiple headphone mixes. The Focusrite Mix Control that comes with the Scarlett driver is confusing. I there might be something better for creating multiple headphone mixes. Naturally I don't want to go backward in latency, but that's not my main issue here.

35 minutes ago, Slippery When Wet said:

...neither Cakewalk nor SONAR was as popular as it's community thought it was...

First: It's free because it's being used as a marketing tool. There are other parts of the company that are supposed to make money.

Even in the absence of any real numbers, I'll go along with your assertion that people just weren't/aren't that into Cakewalk/SONAR/CbB. Which is weird, because it's at the very least a really good product, and for some of us it's perfect. Who knows why it didn't "strike a chord" with the masses? Maybe because it's geared more toward musicians, writers and producers who actually know what a chord is, and that's not the way the masses are going.

@Craig Andertonused to say on the old forum that he actually did have real numbers, that is, sales figures on all the DAWs, but it was proprietary information and so he couldn't divulge it to us. So we users never had an opportunity to judge SONAR's popularity using the only metric that matters in the world today: money. Craig, if you happen to read this, perhaps now that you don't work for Gibson, and now that SONAR's sales figures are receding in the rear view mirror (because it's no longer for sale), maybe you could give us a clue just how our DAW ranked in the past several years.

All that said, I've tried a number of other DAWs, and while I think I could get on pretty well with a few of them, I still like CbB the best. I would have continued to buy upgrades, but I'm more than thrilled I don't have to. It being free doesn't bother me at all. 🙃

If you've encountered me in this forum you may know that I'm not somebody looking for the lowest possible latency in an audio inteface. For one thing, I'm always on a tight budget. I also seem to be comfortable using guitar amp sims at higher latency than many other CbB/SONAR users. So I'm just not into investing in a fancier interface than the one I already have. Except for one thing.

I'm currently using a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. It's a first generation model, and CbB reports round trip latency in the range of 10ms (I haven't looked lately). I like it -- the preamps and stuff. But I kind of hate the mixing software ("Mix Control") that comes with the Focusrite driver. I've never been comfortable using it to create headphone mixes. Mostly I work by myself as engineer, producer, player and singer, but I expect to be doing a few things with some other folks this year, and I'd like to be able to generate two or three different headphone mixes and I want something that's intuitive and easier to use. I've heard that the 2nd generation 6i6 comes with a vastly improved Mix Control, but I haven't seen it in action.

So my two-part question is: Is 2nd gen Mix Control way better than 1st gen? And (part two) is there another interface in the 6i6 price range with significantly better (easier to use) mixing software?

Thanks for reading!

17 hours ago, Tezza said:

Now it only installs an update file .exe in AppData, however, the file is still installed to your hard drive before it is launched. If you want to see it, you have to go to C drive--->Users--->Your name--->AppData--->Roaming--->Bandlab Assistant and you have to go there before you launch the installation (respond to the dialogue box). If you cannot see the AppData file, you need to enable "show hidden files" in windows. You can then copy this file from Appdata to another place and you can simply click it to launch the update. This is how I update my offline computer.

I think this is only true for the very first time you install CbB. Once you have it on your drive, future installations are upgrades only -- not the full installation, thus not the full installer exe. If you already have CbB and you want to save the installer you'd have to uninstall the one you have and get it again through Bandlab Assistant, following the instructions above before installing. Please let me know if I've got this wrong.

27 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

Microsoft wants to go more in a "services," cloud-based direction, because so far the shift has been very successful for them. It's possible that software companies will accommodate this trend by making more cloud-based programs, with an eye toward collaboration and a subscription-based model.

If such a brave new world takes shape, geeks like me (and probably you, @Craig Anderton), will move to applications like Reaper, and there will probably be more of them in a future environment in which the "majors" are trying to tether their customers to subscriptions. As you know from the old forum, we don't like no steenking subscriptions...

1 hour ago, Jim Roseberry said:

Most guitar players I've seen are either using wedge monitor or IEMs (in addition to their amp).

It would be great to have these advantages, but in my decades of playing clubs, parties, bars and auditoriums I have not seen this kind of support more than, say, a quarter of the time. I have spent my own money to provide vocal monitoring for my own band, but we were never a name act and facing competition from DJs and internet jukeboxes connected to cheap but powerful sound systems it hasn't been economically feasible to carry a very elaborate sound system, not to mention somebody qualified to run it.

But my point wasn't meant to be about live performing. I only mentioned that as a way of saying that we may at times go overboard in our quest for the lowest measurable round-trip latency in our DAWs. As I have said, I admire those with the ability to hear the difference between 7.3ms and 4.9ms, but sometimes good enough is... good enough.

On 2/2/2019 at 2:27 PM, Cactus Music said:

I shared them on my web site ( see signature) and Utube but seems I've only had 3 or 4 people watch them so I might as well remove them.

@Cactus Music Johnny - I was just following one of your tutorials yesterday. I've been meaning to check them out for years, but haven't gotten around to it. The one I'm looking at is not a video, but it's excellent. I recommend everybody check out your educational stuff and I hope you'll leave them up.

I haven't done this myself, but I suggest you take a look at this post from the old SONAR forum. Also read the replies, including mine where I ask for an explanation.🙃

@synkrotron and @Starship Krupa - Good to read your lengthy and thoughtful exchange. I feel I know you both now -- at least more than I did. And intelligent points from both of you.

My take: Despite Meng's vision and Noel's and the Bakers' dedication, a free product might not be sustainable in the long run, and if we are going to learn anything as complex as a full-featured multitrack digital recording, mixing and mastering program, we want it to be around and supported for a long time (plus we all got burned in November 2017). So it's not surprising that some of us want to understand what the prospects are, although I don't think it's quite fair to look for assurances. This is life, after all. Shit happens. For this reason I am happily using CbB and rooting for its continued success, but remaining poised to jump over to one of two other DAWs if anything goes wrong here in Cakeland.

PS: Andy, you and I commented on each others music in the old Songs forum. Your stuff is foreign to an old rocker like me, but now that I've read all this from you I am going back and listening again. Diggin' it.

43 minutes ago, Cactus Music said:

Someday maybe I'll try and sing out of key and see what Melodyne can do for that! 

I do that every day (the singing out of key part).

On 1/26/2019 at 9:31 PM, msmcleod said:

...if you get results that suck, create a region FX and try changing the algorithm, then drag it on to your MIDI track again.

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.

7 minutes ago, Geo524 said:

How I wish developers could take the best of the best in each one of these programs and make one KILLER DAW.

Problem is who gets to decide which features are the best ones...

2 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said:

FWIW, The best USB-2 Audio interfaces *are* on par with the best PCI audio interfaces.

• M-Audio Delta and Audiophile series yields 5ms total round-trip latency at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size 44.1k
• RME USB-2 audio interfaces yield 4.9ms total round-trip latency at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size 44.1k

 

A 64-sample ASIO buffer is 1.5ms at 44.1k (doesn't matter that audio interface you're using).

Latency differences between various A/D D/A is negligible. 

When it comes to round-trip latency, the "X-Factor" is the driver's safety-buffer (which is often hidden).

The best audio interfaces can use a smaller safety-buffer.  Lesser audio interfaces use a larger safety-buffer (resulting in higher round-trip latency).

 

Round-trip latency is the sum of the following:

• ASIO input buffer
• ASIO output buffer
• A/D D/A converter
• The driver's (often hidden) safety-buffer

Thanks for the info, Jim. I didn't even know about latency when I started out with Cakewalk and the M-Audio card, but if it had been too high I wouldn't have been able to work, so I would have had to learn something then. When I had to get a new interface was the first time I seriously thought about latency, and I had no idea what I should shoot for. I'm not technical, and I asked everybody on the old forum. I think I read some stuff you wrote back then, telling the basic facts, but milliseconds didn't mean much to me. Eventually I figured out that if sound travels through normal air at normal temps at 1100 feet per second, that's roughly one foot per millisecond, so (for me) anything less than about 15ms is acceptable -- that is, I can easily play in time using amp sims, as 15ms is approximately the equivalent of standing 15 feet in front of your amp on stage, which I have done all my life. In some ways I envy people who can hear the difference a millisecond makes, but I can't, so my life is a lot easier. I'm currently using a first gen Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, and it's all I need. Apparently the 2nd gen box is faster, but I don't know how much or if it would be worth it to get one.

EDIT: I took a look at RME USB 2 interfaces on Sweetwater and they start at about five times what the M-Audio 2496 cost (same for their PCI devices). They have more I/O and more features, but they are no faster than that old card. So that's why the nostalgia for the good ol' days. 🙃

23 hours ago, InstrEd said:

It's a shame.We seemed to have gone backwards in Audio Cards.  Wish someone still made a simple audio cards that don't cost a fortune to  get low latency under load.

I'm with you on this. My first interface was an M-Audio Audiophile 2496, It was a PCI card, and the latency must have been low, because I used amp sims and I never even thought about latency. It cost $99 and was completely trouble free the whole time I had it. I had to get a USB device when I got a new PC, or I'd still be using it.

Audio on the PCI bus must be inherently faster (I assume), so I wonder why somebody isn't making an affordable "simple audio card," as you say.

5 hours ago, Screaming For Attention said:

...I went and opened up Sonar x3 and the Blue Tubes are still there...

If the BT plugins are available in your X3, they are on your system somewhere. Track 'em down and then open your Cakewalk by Bandlab, press "P" for Preferences and enter the correct path in "VST Settings."

7 hours ago, Clint Martin said:

I have an aging Presonus 44VSL which when I use an older driver at 24bit 48khz 128 buffers get me a roundtrip of 7.3ms, which is pretty decent.

I would say that's pretty decent. Sound travels about 1,100 feet per second, or 1.1 feet per millisecond. So if your RTL is 7.3ms, that's like standing on stage with your amp about six and a half feet behind you. I have played most of my life without any big problems under worse conditions than that, so if I were getting the same RTL as you I wouldn't spend any money trying to do better. If your 44VSL is not stable, of course, then it might be time for something new.

I think I got this right, but I am notoriously bad at math, so somebody let me know if my numbers are wrong.🙃

This was a hot topic a few years ago. In the end it seemed that some people found it really helpful, and others said it seemed to have no effect. In any case, it doesn't seem to hurt anything to disable those drivers/controllers.

You shouldn't have to unplug your audio interface to use CbB. Are you using the latest driver? Or maybe the latest driver is for Win 10 and you need the previous driver.

30 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

I could see where experienced mix engineers might be somewhat down on iZotope's suites if they consider them a crutch that lead to hyped sounding crappy mixes done by amateurs. Maybe they can be, but so what?

So what? Exactly! One way to get a good master is to hire an experienced mastering engineer with a rack full of expensive signal processors. Another way is with something like Ozone. No shame either way, and no guarantees either way that your master will have commercial success.

Sony bundled CD Architect with Sound Forge, and then so did Magix. I have Sound Forge 9 and 11. It's in 9 for sure, don't remember if it's in 11, but maybe you could find a new and legal copy of SF9 on Ebay or somewhere. After you've mastered your tracks and assembled your CD, I would recommend using a commercial manufacturing service for the final production.

Yikes! There are 3100 pages on the SONAR forum alone, and that's just the titles of the topics. It starts in 2005, when the current version is 4, and sure enough, the very first post is someone's wish list for version 5. We are never satisfied, it seems.🙃