New "Add Track" dialog - "instrument track per output" is always grayed out?

[Sal Sorice]

I assume I'm doing something wrong or not understanding (not surprising :^). Did a lot of searching but couldn't find an answer.

When using the new "Add Track" dialog, the option "instrument track per output" is always grayed out.  If I use the old dialog (by just double-clicking the instrument in the Browser, adding via the Synth Rack, etc.) the option is available. Tried it with TTS-1, BBC Orchestra, Musio, EZ Drummer, etc.

Example with TTS-1:

Use + button to open Add Track dialog:

 

Select the "Instrument" tab and then choose TTS-1, and increase to 4 tracks:

Problem: the "instrument track per output" option is not clickable (i.e., it's grayed out and can't be activated)!
As a result, I get 4 instances of TTS-1 in the Synth Rack.

 

But using the "Old" Dialog - the various options are all available:

 

Tried the same exercise with Musio.
Using the "old" dialog I can create 1 instance of Musio, load some synths into the Musio rack, and change the MIDI and Audio settings to match the tracks created.

Example:

Use these options and add as many tracks as needed (4 in this case):

 

This creates one instance of Musio (Musio 1), and 4 tracks with outputs set to 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 (as evidenced by the generated track names):

 

Add instruments to Musio:

Note: MIDI outputs will default to 1. Audio outputs will default to 1-2

In Musio, change to distinct MIDI and Audio outputs. In this case, set Midi outputs sequentially to 1,2,3,4 and Audio Outs to 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8

Now each instrument is on its own track.

In the one instance of Musio.

 

Can't figure out how to do that with the "new" add track dialog. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something, as I'm not a routing expert by any means :^)

Edited March 2 by Sal Sorice
Add clarity

[User 905133]

I just tried a couple of tests using the [ + ] button to call up the Add Track(s) Wizard for two VST3 instruments I know have multiple outputs (Cherry Audio's Quadra which has 5 output channels and MeldaProduction's MDrummer16out and also found that the Instrument Track Per Output was greyed out. Maybe it's a regression error or something like that?

On 12/24/2021 at 12:08 AM, User 905133 said:

Just an FYI: CA's Quadra includes a multi out *.dll and *.vst3.  Cakewalk's Track Pane Context Menu (Right Click > Insert Instrument > Advanced > Instrument Track Per Output) inserts 5 instrument tracks: (1) Stereo Mix (Output Mixer), (2) Bass, (3) Strings, (4) Poly Synth, (5) Lead Synth.  Its just like any multi output soft synth, but in the case of the CA Quadra the outputs are dedicated to the mix and the 4 parts.  [emphasis added]

Note: I am 100% sure I did this ^^^^ for myself and then re-did it several times to make sure I was posting the steps correctly when I posted that.

Perhaps @msmcleod or someone can take a look at this issue to tell us if something changed or if we are doing something wrong?  

 

Edited March 2 by User 905133
to add a quote from 2021

[msmcleod]

3 hours ago, User 905133 said:

I just tried a couple of tests using the [ + ] button to call up the Add Track(s) Wizard for two VST3 instruments I know have multiple outputs (Cherry Audio's Quadra which has 5 output channels and MeldaProduction's MDrummer16out and also found that the Instrument Track Per Output was greyed out. Maybe it's a regression error or something like that?

Note: I am 100% sure I did this ^^^^ for myself and then re-did it several times to make sure I was posting the steps correctly when I posted that.

Perhaps @msmcleod or someone can take a look at this issue to tell us if something changed or if we are doing something wrong?  

 

AFAIK there is nothing that could grey that out - even if you picked an instrument with only a single stereo output, it would just create multiple instances if you asked for more than one track.

[Sal Sorice]

3 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

AFAIK there is nothing that could grey that out - even if you picked an instrument with only a single stereo output, it would just create multiple instances if you asked for more than one track.

@msmcleod, you can't reproduce the issue? Mine ls always grayed out (as per my screenshots). Looks like both me and @User 905133 can both reproduce the issue.

[Sal Sorice]

17 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

AFAIK there is nothing that could grey that out - even if you picked an instrument with only a single stereo output, it would just create multiple instances if you asked for more than one track.

Maybe @John Vere can comment - I've learned a lot from his tutorials (Thanks John!!) and he knows his way around Cakewalk!

[John Vere]

Well looks like you found a legit bug. I read this( thanks for your kind support) and I just so happened to have been using my Laptop which as you see in the first screenshot I hadn't bothered to update yet. You can see the option is working correctly as well as the TTS-1 is still the default. 

So I updated to the last update ( probably a mistake) and now as you say the box is not clickable you just get brackets. 

So @msmcleod  @Noel Borthwick        looks like the dude who was told to remove TTS_1 from the list also damaged some other code in the add track dialogue. 

First shot is before update. 

 

Then after update 

[Sal Sorice]

1 minute ago, John Vere said:

Well looks like you found a legit bug. I read this( thanks for your kind support) and I just so happened to have been using my Laptop which as you see in the first screenshot I hadn't bothered to update yet. You can see the option is working correctly as well as the TTS-1 is still the default. 

So I updated to the last update ( probably a mistake) and now as you say the box is not clickable you just get brackets. 

So @msmcleod  @Noel Borthwick        looks like the dude who was told to remove TTS_1 from the list also damaged some other code in the add track dialogue. 

First shot is before update. 

 

Then after update 

Thanks @John Vere! I'm gonna go get my bug spray!

[sjoens]

[removed]

Edited March 3 by sjoens

[Sal Sorice]

52 minutes ago, sjoens said:

A tradeoff for disabling the intrusive 20 sec ad screen???

Real tradeoff is Start Screen now says "SONAR" instead of "Let's Get Started" at the top.  I would have been ok with the ad screen simply having a CLOSE button without the countdown.

BTW, SPlat & CbB share the same start screen.

@sjoens, what are you talking about?

[sjoens]

Sorry, misspoke.

Edited March 3 by sjoens

[sjoens]

One more bug? The new Add Track window now displays 1 stereo/2 mono instead of 4 stereo/8 mono when Split Instrument Track is checked - though the correct number of tracks are created.

October update:                                                          January update:

 

Edited March 3 by sjoens

[User 905133]

@msmcleod Thanks for taking a look and thanks to @John Vere for doing the comparison. 

I just quadruple checked what I was doing earlier today with CA's Quadra and others with multiple outputs and even changed a few things under 2024.02 build 098 .  I can click on Instrument Track Per Output and I get the little white corner brackets as shown in John Vere's second image.  But I cannot change the on/off indicator blob to on (orange with the theme I am using at the moment.)  Multiple outputs do not happen.  

So, I reverted to 2024.02 build 096 and the Instrument Track Per Output works as it should for TTS-1, Quadra (Multi Output version), etc.

When I reinstalled 2024.02 build 098, it was broken again.

Edited March 3 by User 905133

[User 905133]

The issue discussed above is that the Add-an-Instrument-Track Advanced option for the Add-a Track Wizard to insert an Instrument Track for each output the plug-in has doesn't work the way it used to work.

Consequently, other aspects of the Add-a-Track Wizard might also appear to behave differently from before.

If TTS-1 as the default in the wizard was taken out with build 098 (such as to "MIDI Only" as the default) as @John Vere suggested, the change seems to be the cause of the new issue. 

IIRC the ad/count-down issue was fixed with build 096 as per the now closed EA Thread:

Quote

• Updated to 29.09.0.096
• This build contains the following improvements:
  • CbB has been changed to work with the new Cakewalk Product Center
  • Offline activation is now available via Product Center
  • The Sonar promotional window should not appear when running CbB offline at this time
  • . . .

 

[Sal Sorice]

I did not revert to an earlier build to test, but the tests done by @User 905133 and @John Vere seem to confirm that it was the update when TTS-1 was removed that caused the issue. "Instrument track per output" option on the new Add Track dialog simply does not work in the latest build (2024.02, Build 98).

[msmcleod]

I've pushed a fix for this issue, but I can't give any time-frame as to when an update with the fix will be available (hopefully soon, but it's not my call).

In the meantime, the old Insert->Soft Synth synth dialog will allow you to pick this option.

[Sal Sorice]

On 3/3/2024 at 7:07 AM, msmcleod said:

I've pushed a fix for this issue, but I can't give any time-frame as to when an update with the fix will be available (hopefully soon, but it's not my call).

In the meantime, the old Insert->Soft Synth synth dialog will allow you to pick this option.

@msmcleod, this issue also exists in Sonar 2024.03, Build 381

[msmcleod]

15 minutes ago, Sal Sorice said:

@msmcleod, this issue also exists in Sonar 2024.03, Build 381

It has been fixed in Sonar too, but is much less likely to happen if you either have TTS-1 installed already, or have a default synth set.

To set the default synth,  just insert a Simple Instrument Track, right click on either the synth rack entry, or the track itself and select "Set as Default Synth" in the context menu.

[sjoens]

Works fine here in 2024.03 b381 with TTS-1 as default or selected otherwise.  # of reported outputs is also correct in Sonar but not the latest CbB (see screenshot above).

[Sal Sorice]

I'll test it later today. I was using non-activated version, not sure if that matters.

[sjoens]

20 minutes ago, Sal Sorice said:

I was using non-activated version

Me 2

[Sal Sorice]

Was able to check and its working for me as well.