pls, in MIDI event list, how assign to each track a specific MIDI channel and the related voice of the synth?

[dogufo]

Hi, ...I´ve got a vintage synth Yamaha SY77 and a muted weighted kbd Fatar 88; both connected USB via MIDI interface Midisport 4x4 with notebook to DAW software bandlab cakewalk v. 2022.02...

...I have a question as follows:

forseen that I have made 3 tracks on my project

By selecting tracks 1 or 2, the voice played doesen´t change; ... that´s because the Kbd Trans Channel cannot be set to "omni", but only to a single channel; so, in this case, if I set channel 12 on the Kbd it sounds the voice of the multi voice 12 of the Kbd, indipendently if I click track 1 or track 2 (which is set on MIDI channel 13).

Please,is that possible to assign a specific voice to the track so that when I select it, the voice changes? If yes, where can it be done?

Here is track 1, MIDI channel 12

Here is track 2, MIDI channel 13:

thanks many for your suggestions ?

 

 

 

[msmcleod]

You should be able to do this by turning local off on the SY77, and ensuring input echo is enabled on the cakewalk track.

If you want to play both keyboards at once, but with each playing a different sound, set the input device/channel on each track accordingly.

It shouldn't matter that the SY77 / Fatar 88 are transmitting on channel 1,  as you've already overridden the output channel on the MIDI tracks.

[dogufo]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:05 AM, msmcleod said:

You should be able to do this by turning local off on the SY77, and ensuring input echo is enabled on the cakewalk track.

If you want to play both keyboards at once, but with each playing a different sound, set the input device/channel on each track accordingly.

It shouldn't matter that the SY77 / Fatar 88 are transmitting on channel 1,  as you've already overridden the output channel on the MIDI tracks.

@msmcleodmany thanks again for answering me. I turned local off indeed on the SY77 and input echo enabled on all tracks, and assigned to each track its MIDI channel, (but not yet in the event list, that´s why I asked above how to do it) but unfortunately I can still play with fatar 88 (track 3) the MIDI channel 1, which is correct, but with SY77 kbd I can still only play the MIDI channel which is set in the channel set of the synth SY77 (12 - track 1 or 13 - track 2), but still the sound doesen´t change on the SY77 by selecting the track in Cakewalk software.   

[David Baay]

38 minutes ago, dogufo said:

input echo enabled on all tracks

I'm not 100% sure of your routing since the screenshot of the inspector for track 13 is not showing I/O assignments. But I suspect the above is part of the problem. With Input Echo enabled on both tracks and inputs set to respond to the same channel from the controller, both instruments will respond to any input. If you want only the focused track to be heard, you should disable the forced Input Echo on both, and enable 'Always Echo Current MIDI Track' in Preferences > MIDI Playback and Recording.

[dogufo]

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

I'm not 100% sure of your routing since the screenshot of the inspector for track 13 is not showing I/O assignments. But I suspect the above is part of the problem. With Input Echo enabled on both tracks and inputs set to respond to the same channel from the controller, both instruments will respond to any input. If you want only the focused track to be heard, you should disable the forced Input Echo on both, and enable 'Always Echo Current MIDI Track' in Preferences > MIDI Playback and Recording.

@David Baay many thanks for your reply. The track 13 I/O assignments are same as track 12 as shown in the above screenshots. following your suggestions, the situation doesen´t change: but indipendently on which track on CbB I focus (track 1 or 2),  unfortunately the keyboard SY77 plays still the same voice as it is set in its trans channel ... it plays voice of the midi channel 12 if I set in the synth kbd trans channel 12, ... and 13 channel if I select 13.

[dogufo]

2 hours ago, dogufo said:

@msmcleodmany thanks again for answering me. I turned local off indeed on the SY77 and input echo enabled on all tracks, and assigned to each track its MIDI channel, (but not yet in the event list, that´s why I asked above how to do it) but unfortunately I can still play with fatar 88 (track 3) the MIDI channel 1, which is correct, but with SY77 kbd I can still only play the MIDI channel which is set in the channel set of the synth SY77 (12 - track 1 or 13 - track 2), but still the sound doesen´t change on the SY77 by selecting the track in Cakewalk software.   

@msmcleod sorry, since you also belong a synth Yamaha SY77, regarding this matter, the issue in my opinion is that in jump #807 kbd trans ch ... I think that it can only be set ONE channel to be transmitted, so the software CbB receives channel 12 OR 13 indipendently on which track (1 or 2) is focused and both echo are enabled. 

[msmcleod]

@dogufo - so this is how I'd do it:

1. Set the input port for each track to whatever keyboard you've got the MIDI In set to, and set the channel to Ch1 - e.g. fatar MIDI Port 1, channel 1; SY77 Port 2, channel 1.
2. Set the output port of each track to the SY77, and the MIDI channel to whatever sound you want played on the SY77.

The MIDI channel of events will always be channel 1, but if the output channel is set on the tracks in CbB, it'll send all events out on that track to the channel you've set. So in essence, ignore the MIDI channel in the event list - they'll always be overridden by the track channel if you've set one.

 

[dogufo]

14 hours ago, msmcleod said:

@dogufo - so this is how I'd do it:

1. Set the input port for each track to whatever keyboard you've got the MIDI In set to, and set the channel to Ch1 - e.g. fatar MIDI Port 1, channel 1; SY77 Port 2, channel 1.
2. Set the output port of each track to the SY77, and the MIDI channel to whatever sound you want played on the SY77.

The MIDI channel of events will always be channel 1, but if the output channel is set on the tracks in CbB, it'll send all events out on that track to the channel you've set. So in essence, ignore the MIDI channel in the event list - they'll always be overridden by the track channel if you've set one.

 

@msmcleod many many thanks for your reply;

before commenting you post, let me write that it was written me that there should be a file made by the Yamaha SY77 producer with extension .ins to load on CbB to make it happen the program to select on the SY77 the channel to play and tell which bank and which sound to call for each track of the software. Sorry, do you know anything about it?

I set as in the pictures as you described above (please also consider that the Bank (B) and Patch (P) "curtains" which are under the the "curtain" flag of channel (C) are set to "none":

I did also the same for SY77 track 2. For track 3 (Fatar88) I did the same too, the only difference is the MIDI OUT port of the interface is A instead of B

what you described above in number 2: ...sorry I cannot find how to do it, ...because opening the flag of the out port  A or B (the one in azure rectangle in the picture) unfortunately I can´t choose any channel. Without this setting, by playing the Fatar 88 it plays one patch of the SY in multi mode, ...and if I play the SY77, it plays all the patches of the multi simultaneuously.

I left all the MIDI channel of the event list of all tracks set on 1, unchanged.

Thanks again for your response, thanks for your help.?

 

[57Gregy]

When Cakewalk started their Instrument Definitions forum, I wrote that I had a lot of old Yamaha IDs which I think I downloaded directly from Yamaha around 16 years ago.
I just checked my hand-written list of the IDs in it and lo and behold, there is the SY 77. I hope it works for you! You should be able to open it with notepad, as I did. Of course, I wouldn't run it without first checking it for cooties. ? Good luck!

YamahaSY77ID.txt

[John Vere]

17 hours ago, dogufo said:

2. Set the output port of each track to the SY77, and the MIDI channel to whatever sound you want played on the SY77.

This sentence is confusing because it implies you set the Midi channel in the output dialogue. You do not. I'm sure what Mark was trying to say was   different. 

You have the Input channel set in the input correctly which would record Channel 1 data to Midi track 1. 

But to clarify,  the output dialogue of any midi track is global and will send all channels available from that track.  If there is Channel 12 midi data in the track it will be transmitted transmitted.  Control of which channels are transmitted can only be controlled by applying data filters at your MIDI interface or the input of the Hardware device.  

You also have your Bank and Patch set to none, so no program changes will be sent by Cakewalk unless they are imbedded in the midi data. ( Event List )  This would be the correct choice if there is multi channel data in midi track 1 or if you prefer to change sounds manually on the Hardware. 

 

[msmcleod]

2 hours ago, John Vere said:

This sentence is confusing because it implies you set the Midi channel in the output dialogue. You do not. I'm sure what Mark was trying to say was   different. 

 

It's not confusing when you read the paragraph afterwards:
 

On 4/5/2022 at 9:25 AM, msmcleod said:

2. Set the output port of each track to the SY77, and the MIDI channel to whatever sound you want played on the SY77.

The MIDI channel of events will always be channel 1, but if the output channel is set on the tracks in CbB, it'll send all events out on that track to the channel you've set. So in essence, ignore the MIDI channel in the event list - they'll always be overridden by the track channel if you've set one.

 

 

2 hours ago, John Vere said:

But to clarify,  the output dialogue of any midi track is global and will send all channels available from that track.  If there is Channel 12 midi data in the track it will be transmitted transmitted.  Control of which channels are transmitted can only be controlled by applying data filters at your MIDI interface or the input of the Hardware device.  

 

 

This statement is incorrect.  As I said in the last paragraph of my original reply:  If you set an output channel for the track, it will send all MIDI events out on that MIDI channel, regardless of what channel the MIDI events are.   If the track output channel is set to "None",  only then will it send MIDI out on the channels they were recorded at.
 

[dogufo]

6 hours ago, John Vere said:

This sentence is confusing because it implies you set the Midi channel in the output dialogue. You do not. I'm sure what Mark was trying to say was   different. 

You have the Input channel set in the input correctly which would record Channel 1 data to Midi track 1. 

@John Vere many thanks for your answer; ...see my argument please... ?

But to clarify,  the output dialogue of any midi track is global and will send all channels available from that track.  If there is Channel 12 midi data in the track it will be transmitted transmitted.  Control of which channels are transmitted can only be controlled by applying data filters at your MIDI interface or the input of the Hardware device.  

You also have your Bank and Patch set to none, so no program changes will be sent by Cakewalk

thank you, I know that perfectly well. But I can't set it. I own a vintage Yamaha SY77 synth, and to set the banks and patches on CbB I was told that there is a Yamaha manufacturer file with an .ins extension to load on CbB to set the banks and patches on the tracks; sorry, do you know anything about this?

unless they are imbedded in the midi data. ( Event List ) 

that's why I wrote a question about how to set in the event list the midi channel of the iSY77 synth patch in multi mode. 

This would be the correct choice if there is multi channel data in midi track 1 or if you prefer to change sounds manually on the Hardware. 

I don't know. However, I prefer to change the sounds by selecting the track from the software.

 

[dogufo]

10 hours ago, 57Gregy said:

When Cakewalk started their Instrument Definitions forum, I wrote that I had a lot of old Yamaha IDs which I think I downloaded directly from Yamaha around 16 years ago.
I just checked my hand-written list of the IDs in it and lo and behold, there is the SY 77. I hope it works for you! You should be able to open it with notepad, as I did. Of course, I wouldn't run it without first checking it for cooties. ? Good luck!

YamahaSY77ID.txt 2.29 kB · 1 download

many thanks; I tried to import your file in  Preferences>Preferences>Midi>Instruments>Define,> patch names>import, but it does not accept .txt files, it accepts only .ins files ? but I could download the whole from this link: Downloading and Installing Cakewalk Instrument Definition Files for Yamaha MIDI Instruments - Yamaha - United States and installed it

... but unfortunately I still can´t select the patch by focusing the track on CbB, because I can only select one MIDI trans channel from my SY77 as in the picture...

... any suggestions to solve the issue? ?

Edited April 7, 2022 by dogufo
updated

[John Vere]

My self I have a few old Midi sound Modules a Korg 05/RW , a Roland GS 50 which is the same sounds as a D50 and then a Yamaha piano someone just gave me that I think is 15 years old. 

Anyhow each has an owners manual with all the patches and corresponding bank and PG numbers so I just enter those in Cakewalks Bank and Program boxes. Only catch is the Roland I have to minus the number( I think? ) in other words PG 3 in Cakewalk will play patch 2 on the Roland. I know you can set up instrument definitions but it seems just as easy to look in the manual or at the patches on the modules LED screen for that matter. 

Been a long time since I bothered because frankly even though I love hardware and some of the sounds are very cool,,, VST instruments are WAY easier to set up and my projects will always sound correct. I can't really think of a sound any of those devices makes that I cannot reproduce on a VST instrument. I even have found VST's for hardware I no longer own and paid $$$$ for all for free now.  Hardware takes dedication and a much higher level of  technical knowledge to use correctly. Most of what is needed is in the users manual for the hardware. Every device is totally different. My GR 50 user manual is the size of a large towns phone book.  ?

 

[dogufo]

53 minutes ago, John Vere said:

My self I have a few old Midi sound Modules a Korg 05/RW , a Roland GS 50 which is the same sounds as a D50 and then a Yamaha piano someone just gave me that I think is 15 years old. 

Anyhow each has an owners manual with all the patches and corresponding bank and PG numbers so I just enter those in Cakewalks Bank and Program boxes. Only catch is the Roland I have to minus the number( I think? ) in other words PG 3 in Cakewalk will play patch 2 on the Roland. I know you can set up instrument definitions but it seems just as easy to look in the manual or at the patches on the modules LED screen for that matter. 

Been a long time since I bothered because frankly even though I love hardware and some of the sounds are very cool,,, VST instruments are WAY easier to set up and my projects will always sound correct. I can't really think of a sound any of those devices makes that I cannot reproduce on a VST instrument. I even have found VST's for hardware I no longer own and paid $$$$ for all for free now.  Hardware takes dedication and a much higher level of  technical knowledge to use correctly. Most of what is needed is in the users manual for the hardware. Every device is totally different. My GR 50 user manual is the size of a large towns phone book.  ?

 

many thanks; ???I got it; but I still would like to use the patches of the synth; ...I´ve got to import the patches list of the synth in Preferences> MIDI> Instruments> Define .Patch Names Import, but the file is in .txt extension; sorry do you know how to convert it in .ins extension? ?

[scook]

18 minutes ago, dogufo said:

do you know how to convert it in .ins extension

.ins files are text files too.

Use a text editor to open "%appdata%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\master.ins" in a text editor to see all the different sections or some of the .ins files in "C:\Cakewalk Content\Cakewalk Core\Instruments"

[dogufo]

1 hour ago, scook said:

.ins files are text files too.

Use a text editor to open "%appdata%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\master.ins" in a text editor to see all the different sections or some of the .ins files in "C:\Cakewalk Content\Cakewalk Core\Instruments"

@scook many thanks; it´s quite hard to find online a text editor which can open an .ins file; but anyway I could find the link to download the whole patch list; thanks again

[scook]

Any text editor will work including Notepad and Wordpad.

I have used the same text editor since the '70s...EMACS but it really is a LISP interpreter masquerading as a text editor.

[Terry Kelley]

VI!

[dogufo]

Hi, ... please, sorry, ... anyone could suggest me how to set the program change numbers in each track? Basically I need to set a specific program change number on each track of CbB of it´s relative patch of the synth Yamaha SY77