Dropout First Couple Plays Then Fine

[razor7music]

15 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Are you running the original 04 release or the latest early access build? What is your thread scheduling model set to?

Hello @Noel Borthwick

Here is the build I'm running. Just to be clear, the only change between CW being stable and how it is now is upgrading to W10.

Windows says I can't capture video with my DAW (HW not acceptable) and I can't make the video files small enough to post here--so please use this link to view the examples.

This first example "1" is new project. One effect, hardly any tracks. It will stop playing as soon as the midi drums start, but only the first 2 or three tries. After that, it works. Once it works, it takes a reboot to get it to do that dropout thing again.

The 2nd example "2" is of a finished project. I waited to upgrade to W10 until this project was done (gratefully). With the update to W10, it will not play at all (dropouts) unless I bypass all fx. Then it acts like the new project in the 1st vid. It will only dropout 2 or three times, and then it will play.

In any case, no matter why I get a dropout, there are no toast messages. I get project load toast messages, just no dropout messages.

Edited June 2, 2020 by razor7music

[razor7music]

Hey @Noel BorthwickBorthwick

Just wondering if you've had a chance to look at my reply to your troubleshooting questions?

[Noel Borthwick]

Are you using ASIO mode and do other applications work on the system? Based on the video it looks like the driver is not processing callbacks properly.
That could explain why there is no dropout if the frequency of the audio callbacks isn't fast enough. Any change with the latest release?

Without having access to your machine there isn't a lot I can do to diagnose the problem further. Have you done any system troubleshooting?
Try other audio programs and see if you can play without audio interruptions. If the same issue is happening in other apps then its a system or driver problem. Does the problem happen in only a single project or can you reproduce it even in a test project without virtual instruments?

[razor7music]

6 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Are you using ASIO mode and do other applications work on the system? Based on the video it looks like the driver is not processing callbacks properly.
That could explain why there is no dropout if the frequency of the audio callbacks isn't fast enough. Any change with the latest release?

Without having access to your machine there isn't a lot I can do to diagnose the problem further. Have you done any system troubleshooting?
Try other audio programs and see if you can play without audio interruptions. If the same issue is happening in other apps then its a system or driver problem. Does the problem happen in only a single project or can you reproduce it even in a test project without virtual instruments?

Hey @Noel BorthwickBorthwick

Let me test your questions and get back to you.

Wavelab and Sound Forge both work flawlessly, but they don't have virtual instruments.

Thanks

[Noel Borthwick]

Is your problem only with virtual instruments? What if you have a normal audio project. Do you see the same dropouts there? 
Also send us a link to the project that has the issue.

[razor7music]

9 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Is your problem only with virtual instruments? What if you have a normal audio project. Do you see the same dropouts there? 
Also send us a link to the project that has the issue.

@Noel BorthwickI always have virtual instruments because I always have drums in all of my projects. I'm going to create an audio only test project and post back my findings.

EDIT:

@Noel BorthwickI am running my audio interface in ASIO. I followed all of the tips from this forum on what to do after upgrading to W10. Disable fast start, no AV scanning of music related files, no indexing either, etc. I do get a drop out on another project that can be worked around if I bypass all of my FX, and then it acts the same as this new, small project in that it dropped out the first couple times, then it's fine. That's the other video sample I linked to.

TESTED - I copied the new (problem) project and completely removed the drum sampler (kontakt) and there was no dropout. I closed CW and reopened and loaded my problem project that has a sampler (kontakt) and the dropout happened again, as usual.

Do you know of any settings in CW that can help with the virtual instrument issue, or is that my audio interface drivers not playing nice with W10? There are several users in this forum that have the Echo Layla 3G with W10 and CW and said they have no issues--but it is an oldie.

Thanks!

 

EDIT 2:

Just updated CW to the most current version. No effect. Issue remains.

Edited June 6, 2020 by razor7music

[Robert Bone]

Hi @razor7music - curious - Noel had asked about what your Configuration File had for the ThreadSchedulingModel paramater, in Preferences.  I, too, am wondering what that parameter is set to - can you please go to Edit > Preferences > and under the Audio category, click on Configuration File, and post back with the setting for that parameter?  You will need to scroll through the Configuration FIle (not a very large number of parameters to scroll through).

Please note - do not use a setting of 3, as that is an experimental value Noel is still working on, so it is not stable at this moment.

Please ALSO note - you will need to set Preferences to Advanced (a radio button at the bottom left of the Preferences window), to be able to see the Configuration File as a category on the left side of the screen.

I use a value of 2, which is appropriate for most multi-core CPU's. I would suggest you set yours to a value of 2, and then retest and post back with the results.

 

[razor7music]

17 hours ago, Robert Bone said:

Hi @razor7music - curious - Noel had asked about what your Configuration File had for the ThreadSchedulingModel paramater, in Preferences.  I, too, am wondering what that parameter is set to - can you please go to Edit > Preferences > and under the Audio category, click on Configuration File, and post back with the setting for that parameter?  You will need to scroll through the Configuration FIle (not a very large number of parameters to scroll through).

Please note - do not use a setting of 3, as that is an experimental value Noel is still working on, so it is not stable at this moment.

Please ALSO note - you will need to set Preferences to Advanced (a radio button at the bottom left of the Preferences window), to be able to see the Configuration File as a category on the left side of the screen.

I use a value of 2, which is appropriate for most multi-core CPU's. I would suggest you set yours to a value of 2, and then retest and post back with the results.

 

I definitely will, and thank you.

[razor7music]

On 6/12/2020 at 8:39 PM, Robert Bone said:

Hi @razor7music - curious - Noel had asked about what your Configuration File had for the ThreadSchedulingModel paramater, in Preferences.  I, too, am wondering what that parameter is set to - can you please go to Edit > Preferences > and under the Audio category, click on Configuration File, and post back with the setting for that parameter?  You will need to scroll through the Configuration FIle (not a very large number of parameters to scroll through).

Please note - do not use a setting of 3, as that is an experimental value Noel is still working on, so it is not stable at this moment.

Please ALSO note - you will need to set Preferences to Advanced (a radio button at the bottom left of the Preferences window), to be able to see the Configuration File as a category on the left side of the screen.

I use a value of 2, which is appropriate for most multi-core CPU's. I would suggest you set yours to a value of 2, and then retest and post back with the results.

 

Hello @Robert Bone

I guess I didn't understand the question when this info was being asked for. I'm at thread scheduling 1. Should I be at 2?

Either this changed when I upgraded to W10 (doubtful) or it's the same as I had with W7 when CW was rock solid stable.

 

CC; @Noel Borthwick

Edited June 15, 2020 by razor7music

[scook]

From http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=INI_Files.6.html

Quote

ThreadSchedulingModel=<0 - 2> Integer 1

This variable goes in the [Wave] section and controls the interaction of the main audio thread and worker threads on multiprocessor systems when the Use Multiprocessing Engine option is enabled. Depending on the system, a particular model may result in less glitching and better overall performance. The values are as follows:

0 = Same as previous versions of Cakewalk.

1 = (default) Better thread balance. Model is more efficient and can provide cycles for other tasks.

2 = Additional worker thread is created. This may result in improvement with Quad processor systems or higher. Not recommended for Dual processor systems.

3 = Agressive

An i7 may be set to any of them although 2 should perform better than 0 or 1, starting with 2020.05 ThreadSchedulingModel 3 should be OK too.

 

@Morten Saether note the spelling error in help 3 = Agressive

[Robert Bone]

I concur - I suggest trying setting the ThreadSchedulingModel to '2', and see how that works - that is what I use, and I am quite pleased with it at that setting.

Bob Bone

[razor7music]

2 hours ago, Robert Bone said:

I concur - I suggest trying setting the ThreadSchedulingModel to '2', and see how that works - that is what I use, and I am quite pleased with it at that setting.

Bob Bone

Hello

 

Thanks so much to you and @scook

Sadly, changing it to 2 had no effect on the audio dropouts. I was limited on time so I didn't test my other project after the change, but I will.

I think I'll try 3 just to rule it out as well.

[scook]

I am not sure what is being experienced are dropouts given the lack of toast message but has there been any attempt to adjust DropoutMsec?

It is set on the same preference page as the ThreadSchedulingModel. From the same page as above http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=INI_Files.6.html

Quote

DropoutMsec=<num> Integer 250

Under high system load conditions, the Cakewalk audio pump mechanism may become starved. When this condition is detected, Cakewalk drops out. The DropoutMsec variable allows you to configure the tolerance time in milliseconds. This variable applies to all driver modes.

Setting DropoutMsec to a positive value > 0 specifies the actual time in milliseconds to tolerate before dropping out due to starvation.

Setting DropoutMsec to a negative value < 0 means we use a multiple of the audio buffer size as the tolerance. i.e. -2 means we use twice the audio buffer size.

Note that setting this value too low (e.g. 0) can result in more frequent dropouts in the program. If you notice too many dropouts, try raising it in buffer multiples or by explicitly specifying a millisecond value

 

 

[razor7music]

18 hours ago, scook said:

I am not sure what is being experienced are dropouts given the lack of toast message but has there been any attempt to adjust DropoutMsec?

It is set on the same preference page as the ThreadSchedulingModel. From the same page as above http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=INI_Files.6.html

 

 

More great information. I admit, I'm ignorant when it comes to the config.

I'll try to adjust this setting up and report back.

 

Thanks!

 

-EDIT-

NI = Negative Impact. I set the DropoutMsec from 250, to 275, to 350.

I set the ThreadSchedulingModel to 3.

I also tested the other project that was completed without issue in W7 and now won't play at all in W10 without bypassing the FX. NI there too.

?

Edited June 16, 2020 by razor7music

[razor7music]

Hey All - @scook @Noel BorthwickBorthwick @Robert Bone

At this point I'm just trying to do all I can to determine if my issues are audio interface related. The last thing I want to do is buy a new interface and have the dropout issue remain.

Can you please think of anything else I can do to at least determine if it's my audio device? I posted another question to people with my same device and on W10 and theirs seems to be fine.

Thanks!

[scook]

could see if the PC sound chip fails the same way

 

[Robert Bone]

In about 30 minutes, I will go back through this whole thread, to see if I see something I may have either missed or just forgot to circle back to, and I will post back either way.

Bob Bone

[razor7music]

1 hour ago, scook said:

could see if the PC sound chip fails the same way

 

@scook

So, you mean go into my bios and reenable my integrated sound, then select that as my audio device in CW and see if I get the dropouts?

[scook]

yes, if you have no other interface to try

[Noel Borthwick]

Or try your audio interface on a different PC.