abacab

14 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

i use the WinDirStat app periodically to find folders that are "heavy" - Waves, and a number of products including Slate, any number of virtual instruments etc often install some large libraries and supporting files into the ProgramFiles and Documents folders as well as Program Files folders. i think at this point i have about 30 links to move this stuff off my C:/ drive on onto my contents drive.

I used to use WinDirStat, and that gets the job done. But I've switched to TreeSize Free, which does basically the same thing, but scans a lot faster. https://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free

I was surprised that I never noticed this big chunk hiding in the 32-bit "C:\Program Files (x86)" path before. Must have assumed that all of my recent additions to Program Files would be in the 64-bit path. Oh well, lesson learned. Just thought I would share.

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37 minutes ago, Michael McBroom said:

Wow, I've got to admit, I'm learning a lot from this conversation, folks. Much of it is going over my head, but at least I know where to look to find out more and more in-depth explanations.

I've decided that before I go out and buy new hardware, I should start with an SSD cuz I'll want to get one anyway, and besides, it's something that (I think) I can use with my old system. The "I think" in parens is because of all the gobbledygook associated with SSDs I'm finding. Like SATA III (what's "III" and will it work on a 12yo system?) and NAND (wtf is NAND?) and something called .2 or some such associated with PCIe SSDs and that apparently older mobos don't support these latest PCIe SSDs? My mobo has a couple of PCIe slots, but they're 12yo tech. In fact my current video card is occupying one of them. So I guess I'll try to find an SSD that's just SATA but one that'll run on this old mobo. I've got the manual around here somewhere. More homework.

Oh, I let LatencyMon run all night and there's nothing substantially different from what I posted earlier. I took screen shots of the other tabs, but I dunno of they're particularly revealing of anything. If you'd like to see the other tab's screenshots, let me know and I'll post them.,

SATA SSD should work as long as your PC is designed for SATA. Such as SATA ports on the mobo, and SATA power connectors on your power supply.

M.2 requires a special slot that uses internal PCIe on the mobo, and requires a special slot only available on recent boards. NAND is the most common type of flash memory for USB flash drives, memory cards, and SSDs. It uses non-volatile chip-based storage, and unlike DRAM does not require a persistent power source. .

I ran SATA III drives on my last mobo that only supported SATA II without any issues, as SATA is backwards compatible. https://kb.sandisk.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/8142/~/difference-between-sata-i%2C-sata-ii-and-sata-iii

Post your screenshot of the LatencyMon drivers tab if you get a chance. Maybe a clue in there somewhere. Not really necessary to run the monitor a long time, because the bad stuff generally shows up right away.

26 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

A sufficiently recent processor or graphics card (5-8 years ago) does hardware based video encoding/decoding anyways so it wouldn't matter much. One thing Windows 10 does that 7 doesn't is that it makes more use of your graphics card for more than just graphics.

My point was that a large buffering size allows streaming content to continue without noticeable interruption. Of course, newer hardware makes it even less perceptible.

But trying to play virtual instruments, or track audio while monitoring requires true real-time audio processing. You need to turn your buffer size as low as possible at these times. That is why you can mix audio tracks with your audio buffers turned up high. Everything still plays back in sync, but the audio paths are delayed by the buffer size so minor hiccups are not perceptible.

Also, in a related manner, linear phase plugins will cause issues with real-time audio when they require their "look-ahead" buffers to fill before audio playback is heard. Just try inserting a linear phase plugin on a virtual instrument and you will see what I mean. Lag city! But they are OK with mixing/mastering audio tracks.

Running virtual instruments and plug-ins is an intensive real-time activity because the signal paths must be computed by the CPU almost instantly. But playing back audio requires very little actual CPU processing, assuming no plugins in use.

9 minutes ago, Larry Shelby said:

Yep...tried that too to no avail...it's a weird situation for sure...I'll get through...just hate having to go through all this again...

Takes 2 days to get everything "reinstalled".

That's really weird. Using an external boot bypasses the hard drive and anything that's on it.

Almost sounds like a hardware issue...

5 minutes ago, Larry Shelby said:

Sadly, for some reason, it won't let me even restore a backup....which also might be related to 20H2...IDK

You should be able to use a bootable rescue disk that runs WinPE with a portable copy of your backup software. That would bypass whatever 20H2 is installed on your hard drive.

I discovered that the Waves folder on my PC was taking up almost 10GB of space on my system drive. Seems that they accumulate a lot of stuff here. Strangely enough, I found it at "C:\Program Files (x86)\Waves".

So I moved the entire folder to my secondary drive, and replaced it with a directory junction at the original location, using an elevated (admin) command prompt:

"mklink /J "C:\Program Files (x86)\Waves" D:\Waves".

Waves plugins are running normally, and I clawed back 10GB of free space!

53 minutes ago, Larry Shelby said:

Ok...computer went down AGAIN....grrrrrr...

I NOW believe that this has to do with Windows 10 20H2,
as BOTH times this is the version I was running when it went down...
I was able to revert to 1909 and get it running again, but everything
was gone!

Startup Repair would not work....AGAIN!!!

I NOW have to REINSTALL everything AGAIN!

No image to fall back to?

11 hours ago, Michael McBroom said:

Funny thing, though. My system doesan't have any trouble handling streaming audio and video. In fact, I'm watching a movie right now from another tab in this browser.

Streaming audio or video is not a "real-time" process.

But keeping your audio buffers full while using a DAW in "real-time" is. If the CPU cannot keep the audio buffers full while you are performing or recording then you will experience audio breakup.

What DPC latency is reporting is the amount of time another driver (non-audio) has your CPU locked up with one call in the DPC queue. So your audio driver is not getting serviced by your CPU during that interruption, so it runs dry, and pops/crackles in audio are the symptoms. Your audio driver is forced to wait. Not good.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/
 

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DPC Latency Explained

Many audio problems on a computer can be caused by DPC latency.  DPC stands for Deferred Procedure Call.  In its simplest form, it is the part of your Windows system that handles driver efficiency.  If there is a driver that is taking longer than normal to process, it may prevent other drivers from being processed in time.  The worst case is that it can cause your audio interface driver from responding in time and can cause clicks, pops, distortion and dropouts. For more information, read through the article

9 minutes ago, John Vere said:

So I guess next step is to figure out why the computer is causing havoc and swapping out the hard drive and a fresh install of W7 ( or 10) would be my first approach. A lot of garbage gets into a system and I myself find it much faster to just go clean and start over than monkey wrench the system to death.

Michael, you have been living with this problem for a couple of years.

It's up to you to decide if you want to fix it once and for all. At this point, "Troubleshooting 101" says to strip the problem down to the bare essentials, and build up and test at each step of the way.  Sure you can take a wrench and try this, and try that, based on assumptions and hope to get lucky. But after a couple of years I would be weary of that.

If you limit yourself to a methodological process you can assure yourself of nailing down the cause. But you must follow the troubleshooting process exactly in order to succeed. It requires patience, and if you do not skip any steps, it's almost assured of success. And I say this humbly with over 40 years of professional IT experience.

I used to own an M-Audio Delta 44. The PCI card eventually started giving out. Or my motherboard stopped getting along with it, not sure which.

So I switched to an M-Audio FireWire 410, but since Win10, started having issues with that. Had to retire it. But I do miss the old M-Audio company, which was originally Midiman.

Now loving my 3rd gen Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB! Solid, compact, and reliable! A nice piece of audio engineering!

Your VST3 folder is located at "C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3" correct?

That is the official location that all DAWs know about, and auto scan by default. Any VST3 files there should be added to the Cakewalk plug-in browser, unless excluded.

Your VST2 folder(s) can be anywhere, as long as you tell the DAW to scan them by adding the paths.

Well at least the update is free!

48 minutes ago, John Vere said:

And better yet install a SSD drive for the OS!   

That would give the computer a new lease on life!

Plus it would preserve the existing build on the old drive, as a fall back, if needed.

1 hour ago, brandon said:

Strangely enough Melodyne is in VST3 too. 

That's where it belongs.

In case I wasn't clear, VST3 plug-ins belong in the VST3 folder. The VST3 folder does NOT belong in the VST scan paths.

IKM Amplitube 5 is both VST2 and VST3. You can use either one that you prefer. The installer should provided both versions. The VST2 would have been placed in the location that you specified when prompted during the install.

Melodyne 5 is a VST3 only (VST2 discontinued).

Best to wipe the hard drive and start with a clean  install of Win 7. Then run LatencyMon.

Next install only your audio drivers and a DAW. Try to use only your on-board graphics if possible.

See if the audio runs cleaner that way.

Then try adding your GPU.

Audio still clean? Then add one thing at a time until your system is whole again. Or until you get rice crispies again. In that case, run LatencyMon again. You probably have a driver causing your audio issues.

Developers have to draw the line somewhere. But I think it is fair that only the current OS gets vendor support. Once an OS hits end-of-life, devs typically cannot get any more software support for that from Microsoft. On your own at that point! Each publisher has their own criteria for that. Some are very flexible in that regard, but there is a cost to them for being nice. Bless their hearts!

I have always been on a budget as far as technology goes, and build my own PCs. I try to stretch things out as far as I can, but there finally comes a breaking point.

Sooner or later you have to upgrade. Or stand still, but if you do that, I wouldn't bother trying to run the latest software (or going online).

2 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Isn't that how every single professional recording studio does it? Reliability over bleeding edge?

I assume so.

The main issues are:

Drivers - the same drivers won't work forever as new versions of Windows are rolled out. I had to replace my M-Audio interface that was manufactured pre-acquisition by inMusic in 2012. The new owner never again updated the drivers for legacy M-Audio hardware. The old Win7 drivers sort of worked on Win10, but I got occasional blue screens. Now a paper weight.

Microsoft libraries - Per Noel, CbB will eventually stop working on Win7, as newer versions of CbB roll out with dependencies on newer Windows 10 features.

Testing - I doubt any developer will ever test for backward compatibility with systems that old. Or take a trouble ticket. YMMV.

Does it sound better than the Amplitube SVX-VR version (in the SVX2 collection)?

With all due respect, when attempting to run current software (ex: CbB) on 12 year old hardware it's probably an unrealistic expectation for it to run trouble free.

If you wish to do that, you probably need to "freeze" your entire studio and stick to software and drivers that were written for that era, including the OS.

I haven't found a complete replacement for Waves plug-ins yet. Please keep us posted...

There is an option in VST Settings preferences under VST3 migration to hide VST if the VST 3 version is present. But you should be seeing both versions in the FX browser if that is unchecked.

Can you insert the Amplitube FX on an instrument track now?

27 minutes ago, brandon said:

Interesting. When  I remove the VST 3 folder from the scan preferences the Amplitube FX shows up in the FX Browser. But when I open the preferences again the VST 3 folder is showing again. Any way I can get rid of it from the scanning process?

Adding the VST3 folder to scan paths is entirely unnecessary, and could cause issues. DAWs are generally hard coded to scan that path by default, as it is a standard for VST3 now.