[SOLVED] Pitch bend Troubles with SI Strings & Others

[sjoens]

Pitch bending works in SI Bass very nicely.  But when I apply it to SI Strings I get some pretty weird results making it almost unusable.
It seems to have more trouble with pitch bends than other softsynths.  I've tried PRV cc wheel events and automation envelopes triggering the Strings "Tune" function, but they all result in some pretty weird behavior.

I don't know if it's the DAW or the plugin, but Cakewalk/Sonar often tries to end a pitch bend earlier than it should.  My workaround is to extend the OFF cc beyond the end of the note or cut the note short.  For SI Strings it's a distance from 1:090 to 2:000 using 120 ppq.  This doesn't work when another note comes immediately afterward.  Workaround here is to create a 2nd track with 2nd synth so bending notes don't affect flat notes.

Anyone else experience this ???

Edited October 25, 2023 by sjoens

[sjoens]

2nd workaround instead of using bends is to extending 1st note slightly over 2nd note for smoother transitions.

Edited October 17, 2023 by sjoens

[Promidi]

Are you using actual WHEEL Events or CC events.  There is really no such thing as “cc wheel events”

I just tried using WHEEL events in SI strings and if the last Wheel even is not zero, the pitch of all subsequent notes are shifted. So the pitch bend does not end earlier than it should.

Unless I am completely misunderstanding your question. 

Note: I always use 960 ppq

[sjoens]

2 hours ago, Promidi said:

if the last Wheel event is not zero,... the pitch bend does not end earlier than it should.

I'm referring to when a zero event exists at the end of a note.  SI Strings seems more affected than some but it's a long standing issue here.

Here's a simple cwp using SI Strings.  There's a marker at each zero event.  The 1st 2 are at the end of a note and create a "trill" where there should be a smooth transition to the next note.  The 3rd one behaves normally because it's before the end of the note.

 

SIString pitch bend2.cwp

Edited October 25, 2023 by sjoens

[Promidi]

Ah I see.  I took a look at your CWP file and I think I can see what you are meaning.

What you have to realise is that sometimes a note off event does not immediately chop off the note’s actual sound.  There is a release component of that sound that will continue to sound after the note off event (Even if a short duration).

If you enter a WHEEL > 0  event before the note on, the note will be shifted in pitch (as required)

If you change the pitch bend value right at the note end time and start a new note, you will still hear the release component of the previous note playing, but at the new pitch bend value.

This would happen with any synth where the release times is not set to zero.

The way I get around that is either temporarily change the release time to zero (Usually CC72), or make sure that the same actual note is used from one note to the next and sure there are no pitch bends on any note ends (or starts for that matter).  If you need a note to be bent, pitch bend before the note start.

Note: I use heaps of pitch bends in each of my projects.

[sjoens]

In my case the zero event is being invoked before it's reached which doesn't make sense.  That's why it works if I put it beyond the note's end.

I thought there was a MIDI look ahead feature but can't find it if it's still there.  Maybe it's to blame?

[Promidi]

In the 30 years of editing MIDI data with the various iterations of Cakewalk, the pitch zero event is invoked exactly where I place it.   In that time, I have had zero issues with any pitch bends in any synth.

If a note has a release built in, the pitch bend will act on the release component as well at the time stamp of the pitch bend event.  It's always worked that way for me.

[sjoens]

Would you be willing to fix the above project and reupload it? 

[Promidi]

33 minutes ago, sjoens said:

Would you be willing to fix the above project and reupload it? 

I am not sure if this is what you are after.  You can edit out the expression events (CC11). 

I also added the initial pitch bend and shifted the MIDI to start on measure two.

Some notes I have added intermediary notes - of course these can be edited as if not required.

You should be able to just import this MIDI into your project

Note: I do not have Dimension Pro, but this should work in SI Strings using the preset “Default Prog”
 

Attempt 1 pitch bend.mid

[sjoens]

Thanks for helping, Pro.  This would be another workaround by avoiding zero events at note transitions.  Bass, piano, organ, guitar, harp, and most synths aren't affected, but almost every string plugin I've tried is.  Because - as you mentioned - the "trill" is made by the note release (circled in pic) going beyond note & pitch end, which is why it needs adjusted or the zero event put beyond note end as well.  So I was wrong about the bend ending before the zero event.

 

Interesting that you "created" the trill artifacts I was trying to avoid.  Removing them gives the desired affect, tho.