Pro Channel vs Effects Bin

[John Vere 1,955]

I'm working on a tutorial for using effects. I can't really see a different in signal path between the track effect bin and pro channel modules.

Example, what is the difference between putting a reverb in the Track Effects Bin or putting it in the Pro Channels Effects Chain? This diagram is a little confusing as it seems to show a switching point hat chooses one path or the other which we know is not correct. 

Anyone have better information about this detail of the signal path in Cakewalk? @Noel Borthwick @Craig Anderton and a whole bunch of you of who I know are much smarter than me.

Edited March 16, 2021 by John Vere

[pwalpwal 4,272]

the diagram actually makes it look like you can engage EITHER the pro-channel OR the FX bin, but that's obviously not the case, so... which comes first?

[scook 4,892]

The signal paths through the FX Rack and the PC are the same - in at the top, out at the bottom.

IIRC, by default the PC is before FX Rack.

There is an option in the PC context menu to place it after the FX Rack.

[John Vere 1,955]

1 hour ago, scook said:

The signal path through the FX Rack and the PC are the same - in at the top, out at the bottom.

IIRC, by default the PC is before the FX Rack.

There is an option in the PC context menu to place it after the FX Rack.

Thanks Steve, that was exactly the info I was looking for. Man you really have to dig around Cakewalk as there seems to be endless places to customize. I've always stuck with using  the effects bin as it is more visible in most views. But the importance of placing certain effects at an exact point in the signal path makes the Pro Channels effects chain indispensable because it gives you full control of this.  One really needs to understand exactly where the compressor is in the signal chain or it might be pointless to use it. 

[Colin Nicholls 788]

ProChannel comes first by default.

Verified experimentally with Channel tools in the PC FX Chain, and Sonitus Delay on the track FX bin.

The PC context menu flips this sequence, as pointed out by @scook.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Colin Nicholls

[John Vere 1,955]

@Colin Nicholls  @scook

Is this where you are saying you can change it. It would seem so, My setting by default shows Post or after the track effects or is this just badly labeled? 

[scook 4,892]

that's the one

[michheld 60]

14 minutes ago, John Vere said:

My setting by default shows Post or after the track effects or is this just badly labeled? 

Maybe you did this with "post" set?

Set Modules as Default for Tracks

The Set Modules as Default for Tracks command stores the current ProChannel configuration as the default for new tracks.

Best regards

[John Vere 1,955]

I opened a midi file I had just been working on. I've never opened the pro channel or changed a setting and this is a fairly new fresh install. Anyhow the question is I find this toggle misleading as I would assume POST EFFECT RACK means "after the effects rack."  At least post always meant after in my world of audio. 

Hmm, I just opened a Basic Template and the Post effect rack was unchecked.  I also opened a random project  and it too was unchecked. So weirdness. My advice will be that you better check this if you plan on using both the track bin and the Pro Channel. 

[scook 4,892]

When Post FX Rack is checked, the PC follows the FX Rack.

When Post FX Rack is not checked, the PC precedes the FX Rack

When in doubt, check the documentation

[Hatstand 302]

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Mixing.07.html

this has a slightly different diagram which may (or may not) make things clearer

[scook 4,892]

yeah, often best to consult the current doc regarding questions about the current implementation

[Gswitz 472]

The PC has the overage light which checks between every effect to see if the signal is at a clipping stage. This doesn't guarantee clipping is occurring but it's a nice warning indicator. You don't get the same in the FX Bin.

[John Vere 1,955]

Well thanks everyone I think it’s clear to me how this works now. my reason for posting is it was not clear to me with the research I was doing because the internet is full of very outdated information about Cakewalk. A lot of the tutorials are also outdated. 
Then crazy things like this Pro Channel Context menu. How on earth would anyone find that?  After Steve mentioned it’s existence I had to totally dig around before I found it buy using logic. 
 

[Oblivious 3]

There is also a graphic for it          

[pwalpwal 4,272]

11 hours ago, Hatstand said:

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Mixing.07.html

this has a slightly different diagram which may (or may not) make things clearer

that diagram is much more accurate

[Craig Anderton 1,056]

I think a cool addition would be a PC module that simply sent to, and received from, the effects bin, so you could place the effects bin anywhere you wanted in the PC chain...sort of like the external effect plug-in, but within Cakewalk. Here's why.

I've often been asked when you "should" use one or the other. My answer has always been that the PC is conceptually equivalent to being part of a mixer, in that the visuals are consolidated in one place. The effects bin is equivalent to outboard gear, where interface windows open up individually.

Generally I think the concept works well, but it breaks down with things like Tape Emulators, which you likely want to have at the end of a chain, so that implies putting the PC after the effects bin - but you may not want dynamics and EQ there. If an "effects bin insert" existed, I'm sure there would be plenty of times I'd put it somewhere in the middle of the PC.

 

[John Vere 1,955]

9 hours ago, Oblivious said:

There is also a graphic for it          

Yes as always right under my nose. 

[John Vere 1,955]

@Craig Anderton Funny you give the analogy of a mixer as I was going to use that as well.  But I was thinking The Pro Channel and the effects bin are where the  insert jacks are on a mixer and  then the track sends are like auxiliaries that go to outboard gear and are brought back to a return buss 

 

[pwalpwal 4,272]

1 hour ago, Craig Anderton said:

I think a cool addition would be a PC module that simply sent to, and received from, the effects bin, so you could place the effects bin anywhere you wanted in the PC chain...sort of like the external effect plug-in, but within Cakewalk. Here's why.

I've often been asked when you "should" use one or the other. My answer has always been that the PC is conceptually equivalent to being part of a mixer, in that the visuals are consolidated in one place. The effects bin is equivalent to outboard gear, where interface windows open up individually.

Generally I think the concept works well, but it breaks down with things like Tape Emulators, which you likely want to have at the end of a chain, so that implies putting the PC after the effects bin - but you may not want dynamics and EQ there. If an "effects bin insert" existed, I'm sure there would be plenty of times I'd put it somewhere in the middle of the PC.

 

isn't that what the fx chain module is? https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=ProChannel.10.html