winkpain

12 hours ago, John Vere said:

Does your control panel look like this. Notice you can't change the sample rate it either says automatic or internal. Thats for the SPDIF. 

No, John, My panel looks different, and when I talked with Tascam they told me it was a completely re-worked driver and that there was no other, older driver of theirs that would work with it. Perhaps this is related to the new "HR" functioning (which I assume means High Resolution) that allows you to set buffer size down to 4 samples! (if your machine can handle it.)

And here's the final clue! I guess in all my troubleshooting I hadn't tried this before, missing the proverbial forest for the trees. If I set the sample rate to 44.1 in CW.... no more pops! Same with Windows Sound settings. Set it to 44.1 , all the pops go away with the browser issue (which is bizarre to me). Any setting other than 44.1k sample rate in either Windows or CW, and the Tascam driver seems to get confused. Bleh!

So, a professional grade, brand new audio device and driver and I can only get it to work "right" with ASIO4ALL or in 44.1k only. Not gonna do it.

1 hour ago, DeeringAmps said:

Obviously Tascam has “missed” something here. If you can’t return the interface, ouch. 

@DeeringAmps For sure they've missed something. If I am really the only one to have this issue, given all my troubleshooting on two machines, I would have to start believing in some supernatural causes! And I'm not gonna do that either.  It is mildly annoying that in my couple calls to Tascam they didn't want to try and figure something out, given that it's a new item/new driver out in the wild, as I say.  So, yes, it's going back to them!  (Both of them.) No problem there, I just got  it.

Now I'll get something else.

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

I hope that Tascam takes note of this as it's surprising how far flung posts like this can go on the internet today. Your title to the tread is perfect as it contains 2 keywords for Google Search.     Problems- US us 4x4HR. 

People with issues or better yet people doing research on what interface to buy might find your post. Hopefully they will be getting other complaints and possibly update the driver. What is odd is Cakewalk and Tascam were working together at one point a few years ago... both owned by Gibson?? 

If it makes you feel better my Motu M4 also does exactly what you are saying from time to time. My other interfaces never did that. It's got something to do with changing sample rates I figure.  

 

Ha- I was right I didn't even finish typing 4x4 And check it out

Hey wow! I finally made it to the top of a Google search!

Yeah, the changing sample rate seems to be like what's going on. But why would that happen all the time? Why at all??  A kind of clue to that is the fact that when Cakewalk "lets go" of the audio driver when closing, and even though it's set in Windows AND in CW as 48k, the readout in the Tascam panel goes back to 44.1. There is no way to set the sample rate within the Tascam panel either, it's just a readout. It doesn't do that if CW (or other DAW) is still open, and it doesn't do it every time. And I can then go into Windows Sound settings, set it back to 44.1 apple, and then set it again to 48, apply, and then in Tascam panel it shows 48. But after opening CW at 48 and closing again, it sometimes goes back to 44.1 in the panel. There is nothing else (to my knowledge) in my setup that would change the sample rate. So what gives?  Certainly a Tascam driver issue.

In talking to Tascam they just said that they "have no reports" of this issue (which is a little annoying, because here I am reporting it), so they can't tell me anything that helps.

11 minutes ago, Promidi said:

Get another brand Audio interface.

Yup. Not that Tascam has let me down before. But yes.

{This is a continuation and a little bit of a repeat of info from this post, but as I kind of hijacked the thread there with my problem, and the OP's issue was solved, I wanted to present it on it's own for information's sake and in the remote case that there is a wizard out there that sees a solution. Please excuse the cross-post of redundant info}

I have a brand new (now my second) Tascam US-4X4HR which I so very much wanted to love. I have nothing against Tascam and have never had issue with Tascam products in the past. This audio interface is a new upgraded model of a previous interface and hot off Tascam's production line with a new driver and only one version of that driver.

Please assume that my system is a professional audio set-up (built by PCAudio Labs) that I have been using for years with multiple other devices without issue.

My issue is loud pops/crackle whenever the audio engine is being accessed. I have no issues (that I've noticed yet) during record or playback, but the sometimes very startling POPs are very unnerving and don't leave me feeling very secure about its ongoing operation. In Cakewalk specifically, the pops happen when:

• whenever first starting CW
• accessing the Preferences page and making a change to the audio settings
• whenever toggling the state of the audio engine in the Control Bar
• whenever adding a VST instrument (if I add 16 instances of the instrument with the "Track per output" setting, it  pops 16 times in slow succession)
• whenever adding an audio track template with a VST effect on in its bin
• whenever toggling the Record Enable button on audio tracks

In my thorough troubleshooting I have:

• installed, uninstalled, re-installed the Tascam ASIO drivers (many, many times now)
• changed out USB cables (many different cables, USB A and C)
• moved the device to every USB port on the computer (all ports are USB 3)
• tried it in a USB 2 only hub in case USB 3 ports are incompatible (they are not supposed to be)
• tried with device plugged into power supply and with only USB buss power
• removed all other ASIO drivers from my system(s)
• confirmed Windows Sound to share sample rate and bit depth settings with CW or other DAW
• performed all necessary "tweaks" to Windows to ensure smooth audio - i.e turned off networking, bluetooth, etc. - (which, in any case, has been done and set for years)
• talked to Tascam who just scratched their heads and suggested that I...
• replace the unit with another one in case the problem resided "in the box", which I did

The issue remains. POPping happens whenever, especially Cakewalk, "grabs" the device, it seems. I say this "especially" because in Ableton, for some reason, the popping only happens when toggling the audio engine on and off. I can toggle record states, add VSTs, or anything else without this popping that happens with all those actions in CW. I guess the programs access the audio engine/driver in different ways.(?) I can also say, 'tho, that the popping happens (very, very strange to me!) in a browser when I am online and changing pages!(?) on pages that don't contain audio.  On this forum, for example, when clicking from page to page through a post. This, however, is not consistent, but odd.

None of this occurred before with any other device, and I can plug back in my previous Steinberg UR22 without any issue. The other weird thing is that, when troubleshooting (as was suggested in a Sweetwater article) with the ASIO4ALL driver (which I installed for just this purpose)...... all the popping in CW and elsewhere goes away and the device behaves "normally"! Normal for ASIO4ALL, that is, which 'though fine for some, I am not willing to settle for using it with a brand new device with it's own actual ASIO dedicated drivers. But this is an odd indicator if you ask me. It shows me that it can work, at least.

Another important troubleshooting factor is that all of the above holds true for a second machine, totally different system. One is a Windows 7, one a Windows 10.

So, different cables, different ports, different actual units of the device itself, and all on different machines with different operating systems: same problem!

What would you say? It would sure seem to be a driver issue to me. But there is only one driver available from Tascam. Who of any of you reading this has a new US-HR device with its driver and has no issues? Or, better, who has one and had this problem and fixed it?! Long shot, I know.

I have to say that if it weren't for the Cakewalk specific issues, I would be inclined to just go with it. The issue is almost non-existent in Ableton and the popping on the browser is intermittent and audio in the browser is not a priority. But really, it's not a good sign.

If there is anything that stands out that I have missed, please tell me. Otherwise, let this be some informative input on the Tascam US-4X4HR device. Perhaps it needs a bit more time out in the wild to be tested. I don't know. If there is nothing forthcoming it just goes back to Tascam...

13 hours ago, John Vere said:

I just tested my Motu and at this point I can't get it to do what I swear it was doing before? I think the USB 3 card  and driver re install # 4 has totally solved all the weirdness I first experienced. Sorry that's not exactly your solution as your using a wall wart. I guess you could try driver re install # 4  

My thoughts at this point is if it were me--  I'd send it back and exchange it for a Focusrite 8i6 or the Motu M4.     

Behringer? I guess they've come a long ways but I've never kept anything Behringer over time. I still have all my Yamaha, Roland, Korg, Yorkville, Mackie and yes Tascam gear.  On my shiit list is Behringer and Soundcraft right now. 

Yeah, I mentioned Behringer as kind of a joke. I think of them the same as ASIO4ALL. In fact the driver that "comes with" a lot of their interfaces is the ASIO4ALL driver! There are several folks here who laud the new Behringers, but anyway...

I have an exchange on order now just in case the problem is somehow in the box. I doubt it, it seems so very much like a driver problem, but it's worth trying. If the replacement doesn't work I'll look into the Focusrite or MOTU (although your issues and the lack of power supply are a drawback). Perhaps I should just stick to Steinberg, since I have been using my UR22 for years without issue , and just upgrade to the larger version.

29 minutes ago, John Vere said:

It does the popping your talking about when ever I change windows come to think of it. Not super loud but my Scarlett and Tascams have never done that. It seems to want to change sample rate. Now I think of it this might be your issue??? The drivers are fighting for sample rates between changing focus?? 

Yes I thought of this. It is precisely like the pop/crackle when changing the sample rate on the audio card. However, I have made sure the bit and sample rates in the Windows "Sound" properties (all other audio is disabled) matches my desired settings (24b/48k) in my audio software in order to keep those in line. BUT, sometimes when opening the Tascam ASIO settings panel it will nevertheless show 44k as sample rate readout (it is not a setting there, just a readout) even though all the software, Windows included, is specifying 48k. And sometimes it shows the proper 48k. It is always actually at 48k within the DAW, 'tho, so go figure.

Another clue to strangeness is that whenever accessing said settings panel, whether from the Start Menu or from within the DAW, its window opens up saying "Device not connected" and takes a second or two to then "connect", and this even though the audio engine is running within the DAW and even if I've just had the panel open and closed it and then opened it again.

The popping also happens whenever changing tabs in my browser when online or when pausing and starting a video, for example! It is all very strange, as if the Tascam is being connected and disconnected with almost every action that might require its services. I don't know if this makes computer programming theory sense, but this is how it seems.  Not what I expected from it. I guess I'm sending it back. I don't think I can live with it.

And I can't deal with A4A. I ran my own hardware loopback latency tests with it just for shits and giggles and had different results  with the same buffer settings almost every time I hit record!

Ach! what a mess! This is why I hate make changes with this stuff.

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

Sorry if I came across  wrong I am100% on your side and I do believe we are both on the same level of experience with this crazy stuff.  
this just might be one of those oddball situations where 2 pieces of gear just don’t play together.  
A long shot thought. Wonder what happens if you use a USB 2 hub?  
it would seem at this point using trouble shooting 101 process of eliminations that testing different ports and cable is in order. Sorry if you already tried this 

No sorries, man! You are right, and I am with you. I continue to value all your input wherever it is on this forum. I think you are right on our shared level of experience, but alas I feel you have a slightly deeper level of understanding than I. And you bet I tried the USB 2 hub (which would also rub me the wrong way if I had to use that to connect the Tascam!)  BUT, it did not work. Still had the pops when accessing the audio engine. So far, only using ASIO4ALL or the Magix driver (which I think is A4A in a slightly different coat) allows me to work with no pops, I am sorry to say!

Interestingly, when working in Ableton, it doesn't pop as much (with the Tascam driver - not at all with A4A). Toggling the audio engine on and off will do it for example, but this is not part of my usual workflow, so no biggie there. But toggling record enable, or loading VST instruments, or rendering clips will not cause the popping in Ableton. Any of these actions, as I say, do cause the annoying popping in Cakewalk.  I guess the two DAWs have different ways of grabbing and letting go of the audio engine. Or at least this is how I've come to think of it. (And yes, I have turned off "exclusive mode" for the driver on the Windows audio properties in case this has an effect.) 

I wonder what exactly is the protocol of accessing the audio engine and how it differs (or if it differs) between applications. I feel that somewhere therein lies the rub of my wound, so to speak. Not that I would know exactly what to do with that information if I had it.

I love the Tascam box, tho! The nice angle of the dangle and it's ins and outs and it's screaming buffer size possibilities (the "loopback" function I don't really understand, seems to be a podcast-y, zoom-meeting-y kinda thing, and I don't come across those needs in the music studio). I am on the edge of being able to return it (for the Behringer, I guess), or just settle for ASIO4ALL (no!), or live with the pops. I would so love to figure it out, tho....

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

Looks like the op either resolved their issues or lost interest in recording 🙄

@winkpain  fair enough. But I would say the issue would be the laptops system doesn’t like ASIO. Tascam for sure is highly regarded for quality of build and drivers. I own a Tascam interface and will probably buy another someday. 
You say you use ASIO4ALL Without issues but you probably missed my thread in Tutorials where I test driver modes with 4   different interfaces and 4 computers. 
Glenn also contributed by testing asio4all because I could not get it to work on my computers. 
Glenns test shows asio4all behaves just like all other non ASIO modes and loop back test come back late. 
Therefore there is no advantage to asio4all over WASAPI modes. Or even WDM for that matter. It is A wrapped WDM driver. 
But generally we are talking about on board audio when we talk about non ASIO drivers.
It must be one in a million people that cannot use ASIO with a proper name brand interface  There are certainly people on this forum using Tascam interfaces with the ASIO drivers I’m one of them. 
 I’ve use mine since Windows xp and on dozens of systems 

 

 

I understand all these points, and indeed I have read all those posts you mention and agree with all the outcomes and opinions. I only mentioned you specifically, John, because I value your opinions and knowledge in the matter and happen to agree with you. I was not countering what you have said. I have no love for and do not want to use ASIO4ALL on this brand new device! It is precisely this that has me so befuddled.

The issue is certainly not the laptop's not liking ASIO drivers. I have a laptop built by PCAudio Labs that is my professional audio workstation that I have been using for years with dedicated ASIO drivers on the various audio interfaces that I have used with it without issue. I have only used ASIO drivers on it. As I say, my previous Steinberg device works fine with it. A Focusrite worked fine with it. Each with their own ASIO drivers.  I am not wanting to disparage Tascam in general at all. I have trusted them as well, and that is why I chose to buy the US4X4-HR.

Nevertheless, I am having this very bizarre issue, and only with the Tascam driver as it happens. I don't want it to be the case that ASIO4ALL is the driver that "works", but it so happens that seems to be the case. Something must be causing the issue with the Tascam drivers and I would very much like to find out what.

The only thing that is impossible for me to check, and what worked for @johnchowseymour with his original problem, is to connect the Tascam through a USB 2 only port. Neither can I try a different Tascam ASIO driver, as this is a brand new unit with only one driver version available for it so far. I spent the day on the phone with Tascam support and confirmed all this.

I am at a loss with it and this is why I turn to your wiser technological minds for ideas.

1 hour ago, Glenn Stanton said:

agreed, if this is doing it on two different systems and cables, you probably have a defective IO unit. may use another device or borrow one to test that it goes away. perhaps even the internal audio device might be enough to complete the assessment.

Yes, I still have my Steinberg that I was replacing with the 4 in - 4 out new Tascam device. I have no issues with that other than needing the added inputs/outputs.

BUT now I have found that, similar to the OP's situation while trouble shooting, when using ASIO4ALL or another ASIO "container" that came with my Magix software (which looks for all the world exactly like ASIO4ALL)   I do NOT have the popping issue !!!

So this puts me in quite the bind! In my bones I want to be using the included driver from Tascam but it has this annoying issue in all scenarios, on two separate machines, and ASIO4ALL just works without any tweaking. Of course I can't use the Tascam settings panel which has loopback (which I don't use anyway) and switches for the inputs (that I would like to use), and I can't therefor turn down the buffer to 4 samples (which I couldn't do successfully anyway, but it's cool).  AND it just rubs me the wrong way to have to use ASIO4ALL. I  had just gotten rid of it on both my machines after having read so much against its being used (I'm thinking of you @John Vere and others) and I tend to agree with this.  I would only reluctantly rely on it when mobile at times and having only my onboard Windows 7 audio.

So now what?? If the device can work without issue with ASIO4ALL but not its own dedicated driver?!  This seems to indicate that it's not a problem with the device itself. And I've been on the phone with Tascam tech support who tell me all the things that I've already done are what there is to do.

4 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

hmmmm. is the networking off or disabled? including bluetooth etc? this tends to be the biggest offender when there are audio system interrupts involved. in most cases i leave my networking on but turn off or pause my OneDrive and Google Drive apps. i don't use bluetooth so that's disabled, as we ll as my other audio sources like webcam and internal audio. 

Don't use bluetooth and yes, whether network is on or off. Although, I've been running my system with various interfaces while being connected online without issues for years.

In fact in troubleshooting this issue I've now (sorry for the repeat):

• tried multiple USB cables, including USB C to A and USB C to C
• tried the cables in all the available USB ports on my machines
• installed, uninstalled, re-installed the Tascam ASIO drivers
• tried with power adapter plugged in and with Buss power while on USB C - C connection

I have done all the above on two separate systems, one a Windows 7, one Windows 10. I have tried all available DAWs and VST instruments on both systems. The problem persists in all scenarios.

I am assuming there is something wrong with the unit.

...Actually, this crackle/pop situation, although not affecting playback or recording, is really becoming quite nerve-wracking. It was just wishful thinking that had me feeling it was manageable.

So again, like the OP, brand new Tascam US-4X4HR. At this point I've:

• installed, uninstalled, re-installed the Tascam ASIO drivers
• changed out USB cables
• moved the device to every USB port on the computer (all ports are USB 3)

The pops only happen whenever the application (CW) is, so to say, "grabbing" or "letting go" of the audio engine and at whatever buffer setting. So, for examples:

• whenever first starting CW, or
• accessing the Preferences page and making a change to the audio settings
• whenever toggling the state of the audio engine
• whenever adding a VST instrument (if I add 16 instances of the instrument with the "Track per output" setting, it  pops 16 times)
• whenever adding an audio track template with a VST effect on in its bin
• whenever toggling the Record Enable button on audio tracks

When I'm all loaded and up and running, recording or playing back, as I say, no issues. But it is pretty startling whenever casually adding something or toggling an instrument or effect and to be POPped out of my chair almost. It is like turning on an amp and powered speakers straight on with all the volume turned up. It is, randomly, not always that loud, but sometimes is.

I cannot choose to plug into a non-USB 3 type port like to OP did to solve his issue, but I have a hard time imagining a brand new, just manufactured and upgraded audio device, albeit USB 2, would not be compatible with modern, backwards compatible, USB 3 ports!

I have never had this issue with any of my previous audio interfaces and this same system. If I hook my Steinberg UR22 back up, there is not this issue, but then I don't have the 4 inputs which is why I bought the Tascam to begin with.

Does this particular type of "popping when accessing" shine a light on any bright ideas??

10 hours ago, Hatstand said:

 

@winkpain are you still using the 404HD? I have no problems with the one I am using although like any interface it has its limits.

Funnily enough I have it plugged into a USB 3 port mainly because USB 3 supplies more power so I have less reason to use the power adapter  and secondly because my USB 2 bus is running an external hard drive, Novation keyboard, Vinyl deck plus the keyboard and mouse

Still using it? The Tascam US 4X4HR, you mean?

Yes. I only just got it, and except for the odd issue I mention above, I'm pretty pleased with it!

Wow, that's great ! I'm glad you got that worked out!

My own pop/crackle situation remains. However it's just an annoyance, not a show stopper as it doesn't happen when playing back or recording. It is strange, though. I've never really had this issue before. I can now say it's pretty consistent, whenever first accessing the audio device, or whenever rendering a track or clip (at beginning and end), or as I said just toggling the audio engine on and off. And the previous "fix" I mentioned was just wishful thinking.

Unfortunately, plugging the device into a USB 2 only port is not an option as my machine has only USB 3 ports. Strange, but not the worst....

I, too, just got the US HR 4X4 from Tascam and am very happy with it so far.

I've tested it out on two machines both running Cakewalk by Bandlab, one still on Win 7 and the other Win 10. I have no performance issues with it, certainly nothing like what you describe, @johnchowseymour. (unless I try and use it with its buffer size set down at it's lower end, like 4 samples!)  I do, however, sometimes notice one single little (sometimes not so little) pop or crackle whenever the device is first accessed, like when just starting CW or whatever other audio program set to use the device.  This crackle/pop can be  replicated in CW, for example, by simply toggling the audio engine button on and off in the control bar.

It seems that if I reset the buffer setting in the US-HR settings panel, even back to the same setting, this will clear the issue.

I know this doesn't help for the original post issue. I would definitely follow the Tascam install instructions to the letter, and follow the advice of others above here. The unit definitely works very well for me and my CW setup. Very happy I got it!

I have found this to be the case as well.

Auto-saving set to 0 changes and time based only, and auto-saving still happens outside of the time limit.

All this is good to know. Dunno why I didn't see this before as I did a search on this forum for UMC404HD, but perhaps I typed it wrong, cuz nothing came up.

Anyway, good to know. Tanks!

32 minutes ago, Canopus said:

No, that’s not correct. Their budget options UM2 and UM22 for very cost conscious users do indeed only offer ASIO4All drivers, but all their slightly more expensive options, such as the UMC204HD and UMC404HD, have native ASIO drivers. Just have a look at their download page under Product Group Audio Interfaces.

https://www.behringer.com/downloads.html

Thank you. Yes, I am looking at their UMC404HD.

So their "UMC Driver 4.59.0" is a native ASIO driver?  There is no indication of this, and the only mention of ASIO on their site that I can find is for the ASIO4All driver, which is all over the place there.

I'm happy to believe you, tho. You have one of these devices, @Canopus ?

There seem to be many posts here mentioning the desirability (or un-) of either of these subjects.

The Behringer interfaces offer a hard to ignore economical option for an additional interface for whatever reason, especially in the more than 2 inputs range. I started looking into them and was surprised to find that Behringer does not provide native ASIO drivers for their interfaces and instead "provides" Asio4All drivers! I took this is a bad sign and a reason to avoid. 

But so often here I've seen the Behringer interfaces being trumpeted as a great option, I'm wondering what the actual experiences have been on this drivers front.

Please assume a desire for live input with monitoring, overdubbing, etc. I don't want to use Asio4All for the reasons discussed elsewhere, and I consider not using ASIO drivers to be a downgrade and only acceptable when mobile recording (with laptop on-board audio) and/or not dependent on live overdubbing, etc.  Is this still the right attitude to have?

Opinions and experience are welcome...

My big question now with this (as it continues to be a problem) is how to export an MP4 video from Cakewalk. CW offers this as an option in its export window but I have never been able to get it to work. It always fails when attempting to export with the attached error. Needless to say, I have plenty of room on the drive(s), I make no change to the built-in MP4 export preset, and I have no problem playing MP4s, nor do I have any issue exporting MP4s from other applications that are made to do so.

I can export to WMV but need to deliver to clients in MP4. Of course, I can export from CW in WMV and then use a convertor to MP4 for delivery. But must I ? Cakewalk offers it, so what else do I need to do to improve my efforts to export in MP4 with CW??

1 minute ago, msmcleod said:

SHIFT-clicking the envelope activates it in the track filter so you can right click and delete.  If you've more than one ghosted enveloped, you want to make sure you've picked the right one.

Oh, right!  But if I'm already acting on an envelope there is no need to shift click before right click/delete.  I thought it was some special "don't ghost this envelope" function. 😉

I, too, am plagued by these ghosty, hanger-on envelopes, especially with automated plug-ins. Sometimes they even seem to leave "orphaned data" behind, besides the ghosted orphan envelope on the main track.

On 2/1/2021 at 11:55 AM, scook said:

Orphaned envelopes used to be pretty common when deleting plug-ins that were automated.

To remove it, SHIFT-click the automation envelope then right click and delete using the context menu.

What does SHIFT-clicking the envelope do, as opposed to just right clicking and choosing delete?

13 hours ago, John Vere said:

No problem. It's just sometimes we get people posting things like... "I started a project and the computer didn't automatically make me sound good"     That's right folks.. sometimes a little WORK goes a long way. Just be happy your not using Tape.....

Yup, I am aware of those posts as well. 🙂 But I am not one of those rubes who expects the computer to do everything for me. I don't mind doing the work at all. Nor do I mind using tape, by the way.

It's the menial, repetitive processes that it's nice to have the ol' computer just do without issue. We begin to expect the machine to do exactly what we are thinking with hardly any interaction at all ! It's easy to forget sometimes that every action has to be coded before we think of it.

If only every process could have a key binding! This is where the AutoHotKey is a good idea, if one wants to spend the time with that at first.

19 minutes ago, scook said:

One could duplicate tracks once tracks are in the project and the tracks could be setup in the project template.

Yup. I get both of those.

OK.  Thanks again.

9 minutes ago, scook said:

A little time with autohotkey can save a lot of time later.

Here is an example of binding Windows+Space to load guitar.cwx from  a Custom folder in track templates 

 

There's a good idea!  I did actually have a go at AutoHotKey some years ago. It would pay to check it out again, thanks.

I suppose if you are suggesting this, @scook,than there is no way within CW to "Save track as default template" similar to "Normal.cwt" for projects.

Not a problem. Just another idle Saturday question.