Question For Guitarists

[msmcleod]

I don't practice nearly enough to play barre chords perfectly every time, but one thing I have found is that they're not always desirable in the context of the song - so quite often I avoid them, preferring to limit my chords to 3 or 4 strings.

If you've a bass guitar is dictating the root or inversion of the chord, question whether you need the guitar to double that up.  If you've got a keyboard pad going on as well, even more so.

Also from a mixing point of view, having less instruments fighting for the same frequencies can make the whole mixing process much simpler.
 

[sjoens]

?

Edited March 13 by sjoens

[AndyB01]

If you look at how classical guitarists hold their guitar, you'll notice the fretting hand is higher than the picking hand and the weight of the guitar is supported at an angle - often using a footstool (an upturned waste bin works just as well).

You don't have to be extreme about it, but tilting the guitar in this way and modifying your playing position can radically improve your technique and help you develop an effective barré that you can play with a relaxed hand.

It's not for everyone, but worth a try to see if it works for you. It's not a magic trick however, you still need to practice and persevere.

Regards and good luck

Andy

Edited March 13 by AndyB01

[Wookiee]

34 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

I don't practice nearly enough to play barre chords perfectly every time, but one thing I have found is that they're not always desirable in the context of the song - so quite often I avoid them, preferring to limit my chords to 3 or 4 strings.

If you've a bass guitar is dictating the root or inversion of the chord, question whether you need the guitar to double that up.  If you've got a keyboard pad going on as well, even more so.

Also from a mixing point of view, having less instruments fighting for the same frequencies can make the whole mixing process much simpler.
 

It seems the trend these days is very much to use triads on only three strings, I see so many rhythm guitarist playing the G & D strings.

[Old Joad]

This may help. at any rate hang in there and play through the pain, one day you'll pick up your axe and it wont be a problem.

 

[mettelus]

19 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

Hesitant to play with the nut as it's glued in place and probably hard to change if I goof it up. Most of it is probably just me needing to work up hand strength.  On a scale of 1-10 set up is probably an 8 or a 7. 

Barre chords on even an electric can be taxing, so upping the tension with an acoustic just adds to the need for hand strength. Lighter gauge will lower tension (and action) a smidge, but if you are not familiar with doing mods, it is definitely preferable to having a luthier modify things like the nut. I sent @Grem down a rabbit hole replacing his fret nut on a kit he got [we still need a final build version of that guy BTW (I think, I might have missed it)], and he experienced something I never saw or even expected... that nut had been glued in with so much glue on three sides that in broke into pieces taking it out.

If the play-ability is already an 8 or 7 from your perspective, the hand strength is probably really it. Most people quit guitar because of the time it takes to build callouses/strength, so just keep that in mind as you go... be sure to stretch hand muscles and give yourself rest periods as you work things out.

[X-53mph]

I write almost exclusively in alt tunings on acoustic guitar, and I use a lot of alt barre chords up and down the neck.  I tend to down-tune my strings, which means the tension is a bit more forgiving on the fingers. Try tuning down.

My best advise for playing barre chords is to build up your finger muscles. The fact I also play piano might help with that. There was a time when I did boxing, which helped build up hand muscles (I favoured bare knuckles against a punch bag) or you could use those finger strengthening tools for guitarists. Ultimately, the best way is to work through the pain until you're comfortable with the chords.

[Tim Smith]

16 hours ago, AndyB01 said:

If you look at how classical guitarists hold their guitar, you'll notice the fretting hand is higher than the picking hand and the weight of the guitar is supported at an angle - often using a footstool (an upturned waste bin works just as well).

You don't have to be extreme about it, but tilting the guitar in this way and modifying your playing position can radically improve your technique and help you develop an effective barré that you can play with a relaxed hand.

It's not for everyone, but worth a try to see if it works for you. It's not a magic trick however, you still need to practice and persevere.

Regards and good luck

Andy

Well I finger pick and sometimes look at my hands which  makes that angle very important for me. When I play out I have a stool to put my right foot on so I can play while standing. Maybe similar? 

It's an easier angle to get those difficult passages for me. When at home I  have a similar angle only I'm sitting. Some of that is probably just inexperience in needing the confidence to know where my hands are without looking. On some chords I know, but on others I feel better having the ability to glance at mainly my left hand. 

16 hours ago, Wookiee said:

It seems the trend these days is very much to use triads on only three strings, I see so many rhythm guitarist playing the G & D strings.

For electric guitar too many strings at once amped with distortion is nothing but mud. Don't ask me how I know that  

@Old Joad Thanks!

5 hours ago, mettelus said:

Barre chords on even an electric can be taxing, so upping the tension with an acoustic just adds to the need for hand strength. Lighter gauge will lower tension (and action) a smidge, but if you are not familiar with doing mods, it is definitely preferable to having a luthier modify things like the nut. I sent @Grem down a rabbit hole replacing his fret nut on a kit he got [we still need a final build version of that guy BTW (I think, I might have missed it)], and he experienced something I never saw or even expected... that nut had been glued in with so much glue on three sides that in broke into pieces taking it out.

If the play-ability is already an 8 or 7 from your perspective, the hand strength is probably really it. Most people quit guitar because of the time it takes to build callouses/strength, so just keep that in mind as you go... be sure to stretch hand muscles and give yourself rest periods as you work things out.

One thing I know. Unless my health gives out I will NEVER lay down guitar.  :)......long story, but I diverted to learn another instrument. This took valuable time away from guitar practice, so I'm back in that grove now. Last night I played the same song on both keyboard and guitar. Guitar was the clear winner for that song in terms ot how it felt playing it in addition to expressiveness. Not in all cases, but in that case guitar won. The power can go out and I still have an instrument I can play. With my keyboards not so.  And in front of an audience I much prefer a guitar over a piece of plastic in front of me, but some things I just can't play as well on guitar.

I tried tuning down 1/2 step. I think that could work for some things and I appreciate that suggestion. It was especially useful where my vocal range is pushing it.

Could be my strings. The guitar seemed to loose some tone whan I did that. Didn't project as well in addition to my high strings being almost too 'twangy'. It  made playing easier though overall. I can play F maybe three different ways none very fast and no barr yet. I'll stay at it. 

3 hours ago, 53mph said:

I write almost exclusively in alt tunings on acoustic guitar, and I use a lot of alt barre chords up and down the neck.  I tend to down-tune my strings, which means the tension is a bit more forgiving on the fingers. Try tuning down.

My best advise for playing barre chords is to build up your finger muscles. The fact I also play piano might help with that. There was a time when I did boxing, which helped build up hand muscles (I favoured bare knuckles against a punch bag) or you could use those finger strengthening tools for guitarists. Ultimately, the best way is to work through the pain until you're comfortable with the chords.

Maybe plugged in I won't loose tone down tuning. On this guitar it seemed to dampen the tone unplugged.

I got through the fingertip pain. Now I guess I need to develop strength for the barr chords. I'm left handed, but I don't think my left fingers are really any stronger than my right hand fingers. Maybe more dexterity. I don't own a piano, but played one for years elsewhere. I mostly play keys. Those lighter keys are probably not helping me much. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Wookiee]

@Tim Smith OK I won't ask ?

[Tim Smith]

Just now, Wookiee said:

@Tim Smith OK I won't ask ?

Heavy metal rhythm is pretty easy to play. Solos? That's another thing altogether.

[Wookiee]

2 minutes ago, Tim Smith said:

Heavy metal rhythm is pretty easy to play. Solos? That's another thing altogether.

I did say I won't ask ???

[Old Joad]

35 minutes ago, Tim Smith said:

Heavy metal rhythm is pretty easy to play. Solos? That's another thing altogether.

Me either?I didn't want to know?

Edited March 13 by Old Joad

[mettelus]

3 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

On some chords I know, but on others I feel better having the ability to glance at mainly my left hand. 

3 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

The power can go out and I still have an instrument I can play.

I find it ironic that you mentioned both of these. Reason being is that early on in my learning, the power went out (which only happened once when I was at USNA, which is a government facility and never should have happened as the backups failed as well) so I was left in nearly total darkness for over an hour (the rooms did not have emergency lighting, only the hallways and stairs did). That single "Act of God" did more to kick start proficiency than I ever would have suspected... suddenly I was blind and could only rely on my ears and proprioception/kinesthesia (sense of body/hand positions and motion) in order to play. I learned more in that hour than in the prior two months combined because of it.

Over a decade earlier, my piano teacher had said "stop looking at your hands" and pulled the key cover out over everything but the very tips of the white keys. That power outage made me chuckle immediately and I said to my room mate, "Stop looking at my hands, aye" and kept right on going.

Just turning off the lights at night and intentionally playing in the dark can give a massive boost to skills/senses that truly need to be developed rather than relying on one's eyes.

[Tim Smith]

On 3/13/2024 at 5:09 PM, mettelus said:

I find it ironic that you mentioned both of these. Reason being is that early on in my learning, the power went out (which only happened once when I was at USNA, which is a government facility and never should have happened as the backups failed as well) so I was left in nearly total darkness for over an hour (the rooms did not have emergency lighting, only the hallways and stairs did). That single "Act of God" did more to kick start proficiency than I ever would have suspected... suddenly I was blind and could only rely on my ears and proprioception/kinesthesia (sense of body/hand positions and motion) in order to play. I learned more in that hour than in the prior two months combined because of it.

Over a decade earlier, my piano teacher had said "stop looking at your hands" and pulled the key cover out over everything but the very tips of the white keys. That power outage made me chuckle immediately and I said to my room mate, "Stop looking at my hands, aye" and kept right on going.

Just turning off the lights at night and intentionally playing in the dark can give a massive boost to skills/senses that truly need to be developed rather than relying on one's eyes.

I am finding that for the most part it's just a comfort sort of placebo for the fingerings I know . Sometimes I seem to play better not looking. I like to know I can look if I need to look which is probably one of the beginner syndromes. 

I was trying to play a G/AM7/G/C  and then that same run with a D/D7 at the end. The hard thing for me was getting back to the C fast from G. If I played G2 and C2 that's much easier.  That's a pretty major fingers shift for me where I'm using my pinkie finger on the E string when playing G. Just muscle memory I guess. I must have played it 50 times last night and still arrived at the C slightly late. The only trick I could come up with was to only play the strings my fingers landed on so the later notes were a few milliseconds behind and sounds like I played it deliberate. I am beginning to feel the C without looking now. 

It's really a keys song, but I would be dragging a keyboard there for one song. I need to make a decision soon. It's easy to play on keys for me, but I think the guitar gives it more character. My wife must go nuts hearing me go over it again and again.

I watched some dude on Youtube playing it  on guitar. He was just straight up strumming it. To me it didn't sound as good as the way I'm doing it. It seems most guitar training is just training strummers.

Edited March 15 by Tim Smith

[craigb]

24 minutes ago, Tim Smith said:

My wife must go nuts hearing me go over it again and again.

At least you're not learning how to play violin!!! ?

[Xoo]

25 minutes ago, craigb said:

At least you're not learning how to play violin!!! ?

Or bagpipes.

[mark skinner]

I've mainly played acoustic (and do have an easily played Yairi) for 50 years, and I still haven't found much use for full barred chords.     ms

[Tim Smith]

19 minutes ago, mark skinner said:

I've mainly played acoustic (and do have an easily played Yairi) for 50 years, and I still haven't found much use for full barred chords.     ms

I should have bought one when I was looking at them. Nice guitars. Especially the older ones.  If you haven't found much use for them that says quite a lot.

[craigb]

25 minutes ago, mark skinner said:

I've mainly played acoustic (and do have an easily played Yairi) for 50 years, and I still haven't found much use for full barred chords.     ms

I've mainly played electrics (and don't like the necks of acoustics) for 50 years, and 90% of what I play are barre chords. ?

[msmcleod]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:55 PM, Byron Dickens said:

Instead of trying to squeeze with your hand, use the muscles in your arm to pull your hand against the fretboard.

I've tried this in the past, and it works a treat... it's difficult to unlearn 40 years of bad habits tho!