2019.09 Feedback

[Robert Bone]

I wonder if there is an issue with the VST3 version of Massive X - perhaps you can try the VST2 version of it?  (Assuming there ARE both versions available - I do not have Massive X, so this is just a though of something to try).

You might need to go into Preferences, to remove the check from the option to hide VST2 plugins if there are VST3 versions available.   That option is found on the Preferences > File > VST Settings, under where it says VST3 Migration.  Its exact text is: "Hide Related VST2 Plug-Ins".

Some other plugins have had issues with the VST3 versions, whereas the VST2 version of the same plugin would work wonderfully.  Please note that the actual sound from a VST2 version of a plugin and its VST3 version, should be identical.

I seem to recall some Waves plugins had this issue in the past (not necessarily your exact issue - I refer to the VST3 version failing while the VST2 worked fine).

Bob Bone

[white flowers]

I'm still noticing strange behavior with lasso selecting nodes on a track automation curve. Actually it appears to have gotten worse since 2019.07, about which I had some discussion here: https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/5539-201907-feedback/page/3/&tab=comments#comment-48602

As far as I can tell, the 2019.07 behavior is still happening, in that if "select track envelopes with clips" is checked, then all track automation nodes on a clip are selected when I lasso a single node.

Also, even when "select trk env w/ clips" is unchecked, if I use the lasso to select a node, it selects the envelope itself, so that deleting the nodes deletes the envelope, leaving a "jump" style dotted envelope. This is really not helpful to me, and as far as I can tell it's no longer possible without expanding automation lanes to select a group of nodes and delete them without also turning that part of the envelope to "jump".

If I expand the automation lanes, and then select multiple nodes with the lasso, the clip on the main track is selected and deleting the nodes deletes the clip.

So, what remains is to use the swipe-selection method on the nodes after expanding the automation lanes. Expanding automation lanes is for me an unnecessary complication, and I prefer to see all automation curves at once on the main track.

Swipe-selecting using the selection tool is inferior for selecting nodes, because the nodes are often nearly or completely vertical to one another, meaning that it is impossible to select only one of them by swiping. The lasso is (or was) basically perfect for selecting nodes.

I am unaware of any reason for any of these changes.

I would humbly request that the behavior be reverted to how it was several months ago, which was the way it had been for as long as I can remember over the last ten or so years I've used the program.

Edited November 21, 2019 by btbrock

[msmcleod]

On 11/15/2019 at 10:13 AM, Robert Bone said:

I wonder if there is an issue with the VST3 version of Massive X - perhaps you can try the VST2 version of it?  (Assuming there ARE both versions available - I do not have Massive X, so this is just a though of something to try).

You might need to go into Preferences, to remove the check from the option to hide VST2 plugins if there are VST3 versions available.   That option is found on the Preferences > File > VST Settings, under where it says VST3 Migration.  Its exact text is: "Hide Related VST2 Plug-Ins".

Some other plugins have had issues with the VST3 versions, whereas the VST2 version of the same plugin would work wonderfully.  Please note that the actual sound from a VST2 version of a plugin and its VST3 version, should be identical.

I seem to recall some Waves plugins had this issue in the past (not necessarily your exact issue - I refer to the VST3 version failing while the VST2 worked fine).

Bob Bone

All of the NI plugins/instruments are VST2 at the moment.

[Robert Bone]

57 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

All of the NI plugins/instruments are VST2 at the moment.

OOPS!  Knowing that would have saved me some typing.  DOH!  hee hee   (I don't have Massive X, but would have thought they would have begun to publish VST 3 plugins by now - thanks for letting me know.  I have had various versions of Komplete for well over a decade now, but have never paid attention to them being VST 2 or VST 3 -  I have never looked at any NI instruments for VST 3 functionality, just figured that there were both types of plugins in the newer versions of Komplete).  

Bob Bone

[David Baay]

On 11/20/2019 at 7:14 PM, btbrock said:

if "select track envelopes with clips" is checked, then all track automation nodes on a clip are selected when I lasso a single node.

Also, even when "select trk env w/ clips" is unchecked, if I use the lasso to select a node, it selects the envelope itself

This sounds like expected behavior when the track's Edit Filter is set to Clips. Haven't double-checked the beahvior, but make sure the Edit Filter is set to Automation.

EDIT:  I interpreted "selects the envelope itself" to mean "selects the clip itself.

Also, I just checked, and lassoing individual envelope nodes works as expected here if the Edit Filter is set correctly.

Edited November 22, 2019 by David Baay

[Noel Borthwick]

@btbrockNot seeing any issues with lasso selecting nodes on either clip envelopes or track envelopes on the main track irrespective of whether lanes are closed or not.  Are you potentially confusing track envelopes with clip envelopes? 

If you are still seeing issues please submit a repro project with a video or detailed steps you are taking. There has been no change to the lasso select behavior of envelope nodes. 

[marcL]

Volume Problems with Exporting Frozen Synths

I noticed several times that there are volume problems exporting frozen synth tracks. There are differences whether they are stereo or mono tracks/sources. Usually I was using Kontakt or Addictive Drums with a folder, a midi and some audio mono and stereo tracks (mixed!). Because of the trouble I began to create a separate "mono export track" and I copied the frozen audio for export (very cumbersome!), but lately I noticed if I create export audio tracks in a folder then there is an additional problem!

For simplification and to reduce the involvation of 3rd party plugins I have created a small test project today:

• Virtual instrument = SI-Electric Piano
• 3 tracks in a folder:
  • A Midi input track
  • A stereo output track
  • A mono output track (interleave=mono and input=only left output of Electric Piano).

Detections:

1. Direct export of the 2 frozen audio tracks: mono=~ -12dB, stereo=~ -18dB(each L/R)
2. Copy the frozen audio clips to 2 new toplevel audio tracks (stereo, resp. mono interleave set):  mono=~ -15dB, stereo~ -15dB
3. The same as 2, but the tracks are under a new folder: mono=~ -15dB, stereo~ -18dB
4. The original tracks in the project audio folder: mono=~ -15dB, stereo~ -15dB

Additional Information:

• I did not use any additional plugins
• The pan in all tracks stay center
• The faders are all 0.0
• I exported without any Automation & FX

[Noel Borthwick]

@marled can you share a link to the project file used for your test?

[marcL]

@Noel Borthwick

Link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19j1zZ_JOABHimiqBLy2x-WZ6FYVykQ-S

I included also a folder with the exported files from all 3 track variants.

[Klaus]

On 11/21/2019 at 3:14 AM, btbrock said:

I'm still noticing strange behavior with lasso selecting nodes on a track automation curve. Actually it appears to have gotten worse since 2019.07, about which I had some discussion here: https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/5539-201907-feedback/page/3/&tab=comments#comment-48602

As far as I can tell, the 2019.07 behavior is still happening, in that if "select track envelopes with clips" is checked, then all track automation nodes on a clip are selected when I lasso a single node.

 

This seems to be an OS related problem, I can reproduce what you see with CbB on Windows 7:

Lasso-select a single envelope node also selects all other nodes in the range of the (underlaying) clip.

"Select Track Envelopes with Clips" has to be checked.
 

 

The problem doesn't occur with Windows 10 here, works as expected.

CbB Version: 2019.09 (Build 70)
 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Klaus

[white flowers]

On 11/22/2019 at 3:41 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

@btbrockNot seeing any issues with lasso selecting nodes on either clip envelopes or track envelopes on the main track irrespective of whether lanes are closed or not.  Are you potentially confusing track envelopes with clip envelopes? 

If you are still seeing issues please submit a repro project with a video or detailed steps you are taking. There has been no change to the lasso select behavior of envelope nodes. 

Apparently this only happens in Windows 7, as Klaus has revealed above.

Something definitely did change as of 2019.07, as was discussed in the thread for that version.

In the course of documenting this behavior of track envelopes, I was aware of the existence of clip envelopes, and was not confused about which is which. "Select track envelopes with clips" does not affect clip envelope behavior.

Here, using 2019.09 and Windows 7, there is no complicated process necessary to reproduce the behavior. New project. Create clip. Create a track envelope on the track with the clip. Create 4 nodes on the envelope within the duration of the clip. Attempt to select the middle two nodes using the lasso. Press the delete key. If "Select track envelopes with clips" is checked, all four nodes will be deleted, as all four will have been selected. If "STEWC" is not checked, the middle two nodes will be deleted, as well as a portion the envelope. See first screencap.

Thanks for your help! After your suggestion about clip envelopes, I have tested them as well.

Create clip envelope on clip. Create 4 nodes. Selecting the middle two with the lasso behaves correctly (pressing the delete key deletes those two nodes and nothing else). Select the middle two by swiping the selection tool. Press delete. The two nodes are deleted, as well as the clip underneath the selection area. "STEWC" does not affect this behavior. See second screencap.

If all of this works properly in Windows 10, then I can understand that it may not be a priority, though I'd be wary of assuming that whatever has changed won't cause problems down the line in 10 as well. I would appreciate it if you could at least help me understand what underlying change has caused this, and whether I can prevent it by changing an option somewhere. I'm guessing it is related to changes to comping, as I believe some of that was implemented recently.

Thanks

 

 

 

Oh, also if this is a Windows 7 issue, can you please please please provide an installer to roll back to a version which hasn't been changed in this way? Thank you. Specifically, I believe the last functional Windows 7 release is 2019.05. It would be a great service to anyone still using Windows 7 if you could make 2019.05 available in perpetuity. Thank you.

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by btbrock

[Noel Borthwick]

As mentioned before we don't test anymore on Windows 7 or support it actively. Having a separate install for Win 7 isn't something we plan on doing so I highly recommend that you plan for an upgrade.

[white flowers]

9 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

As mentioned before we don't test anymore on Windows 7 or support it actively. Having a separate install for Win 7 isn't something we plan on doing so I highly recommend that you plan for an upgrade.

I understand some of your reasons for making that choice, but I think there are good reasons to make a different choice. I know a guy who is still running Sonar 7 or 8 on Windows XP, making records every day. I personally will most likely switch to 10 when necessary, for a variety of reasons, but it would be nice if until then I could use 2019.05. Not the end of the world, but puzzling why the world is the way it is.

Also, I would have liked to know what the cause of the issue is, and why its effects are limited to Win 7.

Anyway, thanks for your work on the program. One thing I really appreciate about your current business model is how updates are real quick and painless, which I recognize is connected to your policy about providing a stable Win 7 install file.

Edited November 27, 2019 by btbrock