Oh, great! Does this mean I have to grow a beard and a poney tail, wear thick glasses, sandals, and tye dye shirts, and smoke weed now?

[Rain]

Ever since I finally “got” Rush after decades of intense dislike, I’ve been cautious with my musical opinions.

One band that I keep trying to figure out is The Who. However, while I could still objectively appreciate Rush and I never thought of them as overrated even if I didn't like them, I find such a thing to be impossible with The Who.

Rush I simply didn’t like. I knew they were great.

May I live to regret these words, but, in my allegedly humble opinion, as a band, The Who suck. There. I said it. I understand their historical importance to an extent, but, yeah…

And yet every couple of years, I give them a try, dig through their discography, find a handful of passable songs that I don’t hate, but the rest just makes me cringe. And this time was no different.

Anyway, I am not sure how this happened but this latest attempt resulted in me revisiting early Genesis. What a strange ricochet, right?

Since I’m really not a fan a prog rock, it’s always an adventure for me to test those waters. Last fall, I tried a few Yes classic albums and I was soon reminded of why I don’t like the genre. They seem to be one of the finest examples of everything that I dislike about prog rock.

But Genesis were always different. Even if I wasn’t a fan, I’ve always had tremendous respect for Peter Gabriel, I’ve always dug Phil Collins’ drumming, and they had at least one album (albeit, from the post-Gabriel era) that I absolutely adored - Trick of the Tail.

Maybe they also had an edge because I used to listen to Marillion a lot in the mid-late 80’s, and there are indeed similarities…

Anyway, here I am listening to Nursery Cryme over and over and over - and really digging it.

And the coolest part about all of this is that, in my world, Foxtrot, Selling England, and The Lamb have yet to be released. And I intend to make the most of this process.

Meaning I always have tons of fantastic music to discover, regardless of the current state of the music industry.

And who knows, maybe someday I’ll “get” Yes.

The Who seems like a lost cause at this point, though.

And Wagner I viscerally hate forever.

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Rain

[Shane_B.]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

The Who suck. There. I said it. I understand their historical importance to an extent, but, yeah…

I said almost the exact same thing to someone the other day. Almost word for word about The Who. One of their "hits" came on the radio and the topic came up.

There's several bands I feel that way about. The Who, T-Rex, Steely Dan, The Doors. Even Rush. You have to respect the musicians in Rush, but I just don't get how all these bands got so big.

Edited for PhonoBrainer:

Yeah, I forgot The Stones. ?

Edited October 18, 2023 by Shane_B.

[PhonoBrainer]

Let me know when we get around to flogging the Rolling Stones.

[DeeringAmps]

The Who, Rush, Yes; I “get” them all. 
But I’m an “old” guy, maybe all my “taste” is in my mouth. 
 

6 minutes ago, PhonoBrainer said:

 

Let me know when we get around to flogging the Rolling Stones

 

THAT would be sacrilege!

t

[Keni]

For me, being old enough to remember these artists first appearances and seeing most of them live...

Some of the appreciation of these is understanding the times and what existed before.

The Beatles performed with no monitors through most of the band's live performances! Things were different on many levels!

BTW, Not "defending" something that needs no defending.

I can’t count how many songs/artists I dissed over the years only to find hindsight provided a very different perspective. So many styles/genres which each contain interesting elements even if I’m not attracted to such styles. Time changes everything!

I've managed to love all of these in their' time and continue to find and enjoy new artists and things. They are each additional, not replacing and uniquely tied with the times they flourish.

 

Sometimes I find myself seeking to remember/imagine the mindset of my avatar in those times/places. Some of which I did live through. Sheesh! Drum hardware became more solid and stopped shaking all over the sad flexing risers! Ha!

Now everyone accepts stomp boxes. They all bitched at me for all the gadgets and wires...

 

are things better now? I don’t believe so. Only different. Much has improved, but so have our expectations increased.

 

[Shane_B.]

18 minutes ago, Keni said:

Some of the appreciation of these is understanding the times and what existed before.

Saying these bands sucked on my part was a bit overboard. The long version of my point of view is, while I can appreciate these people as musicians and their talent, I personally can't connect with their music. I guess that's a more PC way to put it.

As I get older I appreciate a wider variety of music based on how well it was recorded rather than the actual music itself. Hope I'm explaining that clear enough. I'm getting more in to the ear candy part of it rather than the actual musical aspect of it. That's why I pick up old LPs of people I've never even heard of, just because I know that the label they are on took great Carr to make a great recording. 

I picked up a mint condition box set of Liberace last year. It was pressed on heavy vinyl and was released as a high quality recording. They went in to detail where it was recorded and how. It was from the late 50s early 60s. Do I like his music? Some of it, but it "sounds" amazing.

I don't normally have those experiences with hard rock or metal. I can listen to that and get the same feeling from an MP3 or beat up old cassette. But back to my point, I have to connect with the music in that case and a lot of these bands that have truly great musicians I just can't connect with.

Apologies for typos. On my cell in the car waiting for someone and I forgot my glasses. lol

[Keni]

15 minutes ago, Shane_B. said:

Saying these bands sucked on my part was a bit overboard. The long version of my point of view is, while I can appreciate these people as musicians and their talent, I personally can't connect with their music. I guess that's a more PC way to put it.

As I get older I appreciate a wider variety of music based on how well it was recorded rather than the actual music itself. Hope I'm explaining that clear enough. I'm getting more in to the ear candy part of it rather than the actual musical aspect of it. That's why I pick up old LPs of people I've never even heard of, just because I know that the label they are on took great Carr to make a great recording. 

I picked up a mint condition box set of Liberace last year. It was pressed on heavy vinyl and was released as a high quality recording. They went in to detail where it was recorded and how. It was from the late 50s early 60s. Do I like his music? Some of it, but it "sounds" amazing.

I don't normally have those experiences with hard rock or metal. I can listen to that and get the same feeling from an MP3 or beat up old cassette. But back to my point, I have to connect with the music in that case and a lot of these bands that have truly great musicians I just can't connect with.

Apologies for typos. On my cell in the car waiting for someone and I forgot my glasses. lol

Not to worry... We all suffer the issues of typos! ?

This is true for all forms of art. It is very rooted in the actual living experience of the times it was created and trying to feel that is truly difficult if it hasn't been experienced. So as for scientific examinings, again we face the changing/evolving of technologies. So many people still vie for vinyl... Me? I've got a fairly large vinyl collection which I never listen to or plan to. I grew up with 78's before LP was invented! ? I have all the pops and crackles and skipping etc. that vinyl suffers as well as understanding the RIAA curve and it's reasons for existing as well as the horror it places on quality reproduction.... Not a great technology but I was thrilled with it when it was all there was. Each medium has it's good/bad aspects. Early CD tech suffered when they thought to get away with a single DAC converting the audio and the incredible loss of depth that resulted... But it was overcome and continues to improve. Maybe one day we'll have "natural" digital recording where it's analog-style continuous?

 

Who knows?

I just hope that in your musings you find the good in things always!

 

[Keni]

2 minutes ago, pwal said:

tbf, i think rain should still grow a beard and a poney tail, wear thick glasses, sandals, and tye dye shirts, and smoke weed

I never stopped! But the pony tail got so thin that it's now just a horse's *****! ?

[michaelhanson]

I wouldn’t personally say the Who sucked, but I have never been a fan.  They just doesn’t do anything for me.  

[craigb]

I'll just point out that "someone" thought the Rolling Stones Top 250 Guitarists list was accurate too...

[craigb]

9 hours ago, Rain said:

And Wagner I viscerally hate forever.

Reminds me of that quote about Wagner:  "He's not as bad as he sounds!" ?

[Starship Krupa]

De gustibus.

Read between the lines in my entries to the "favorite '80's era guitarist" topic. Notice how there is only one single overlap with anyone else's choices?

The way I see it, music is a form of communication. Not everything everyone says, no matter how well-received by others, is going to resonate with us, especially given that we (as musicians) are more tuned in and passionate about music.

There are some artists that many friends of mine (and musical artists whose work I love) worship like gods that I've just never been able to connect with. The fact that I just don't care for what they do seems to really rub some people the wrong way.

Captain Beefheart and The Jesus and Mary Chain are two that come to mind. As an indie/postpunk musician, you're supposed to revere Captain Beefheart. I notice that none of my friends ever seem to put his records on to listen to, but still, he's a "genius" in the canon of those genres. Whatever, he just doesn't do it for me.

I was a shoegaze guitarist in the 90's, that was my last band, and again, Jesus and Mary Chain were canonical geniuses in that genre. I couldn't stand to listen to them. My signposts were Lush and My Bloody Valentine.

De gustibus non est disputandum: in matters of taste there can be no dispute.

[hockeyjx]

I didn't TRULY appreciate Rush until the R40 tour, because I got a last minute ticket for two beers as it turned out. BEST DEAL EVER! While they still aren't a favorite, I became much more of a fan that day and have explored much more of their catalog since.

Yes? My pop sensibilities say 90125 is damn near a MASTERPIECE! But, the 70's stuff is hit or miss for me. Some is brilliant, some is "meh" IMO ...I'm willing to scrap over that! ?

@Shane_B.My grandmother took me numerous times to see Liberace as a kid at Radio City Music Hall, and he was AMAZING!!!!

Rolling Stones?? No. Just NOOOOOOO!!! 

Never got The Who, but Eminence Front is a song I just dig.

Genesis @Rain I really started at Duke, but I tried to get in to Trick of the Tail, and it didn't work. I am a Phil Collins era fan I guess.

I'm going to checkout some of the bands mentioned though, always willing to check out some vintage music!

 

[Rain]

60 years down the line it can be difficult to understand the impact they originally had because, after all these years, musically, the difference between British rock bands this side of the Beatles in the mid 60’s is often a matter of a few tiny degrees. I understand the need to put things into perspective - and being a big fan of the genre, I usually do.

And I also know that one must take into account the whole rock opera thing. Indeed, there is something in the way Townshend approaches creativity that I sincerely appreciate. Which is why I keep trying. But, to me, in their execution, these albums fail to deliver for the most part. Being innovative doesn’t necessarily mean being good or great.

Objectively speaking, and even taking into account the prowesses of Entwistle and Moon, from the later 60’s onwards, the end product doesn’t seem on par with many of their contemporaries, whether it's the album's or the live performances.

That’s coming from someone who’s long been addicted to classic rock and learned to not only forgive but appreciate certain, uh, idiosyncrasies of the era. I am sure I can still sing the entire guitar solo/non-sense from Dazed and Confused on The Song Remains the Same note for note decades after I last heard it. Same for Interstellar Overdrive by Pink Floyd.

I remember one of the very first CDs I bought was Live at Leeds. I had heard so many fantastic things about it, and it was often cited as the greatest live rock album. It turned out to be one of the biggest letdowns of my music buying career. I’m still trying to dig it, but it just doesn’t work for me.

From that same couple of years, I can think of many live records that are, in my opinion, in every way superior to Leeds - Live Cream, Band of Gypsys, The Allman Brothers at the Fillmore East, Humble Pie at the Fillmore, to name but a few, and not to mention all the live footage and countless bootlegs from other contemporary acts.

But I am stubborn, so I will keep trying.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Rain

[Rain]

1 hour ago, hockeyjx said:

Genesis @Rain I really started at Duke, but I tried to get in to Trick of the Tail, and it didn't work. I am a Phil Collins era fan I guess.



 

My first taste of Genesis was Mama from the eponymous album, in 6th grade. I used to call the local radio all the time and ask them to play it. I still love that one, but I'd be hard pressed to name you another song on that record, besides That's All.

A few years later, my mother bought a bunch of vinyls from a friend who was getting rid of stuff and she got me Duke, Abacab, and the aforementioned Genesis (along with Bach's Brandenburg Concertos and Beethoven's 5th and 8th). I mostly remember the first cut off Duke - the drums I guess...

Not sure what it is about Trick - as I said, I'm not usually a big fan of prog rock, with a few exceptions, but this one always got through to me.

[craigb]

4 hours ago, Rain said:

... as I said, I'm not usually a big fan of prog rock, with a few exceptions...

So, I take it you don't like the best Prog band from Canada that's not name Rush, eh?  (The Mystery.)

I seem to recall posting some samples for you.  I personally like Rush, but I like the Mystery a lot more!

[Rain]

I remember, that yeah.

I say I don't like prog, but there are lots of exceptions - I like some King Crimson, and Harmonium from back home, whom I remember you being familiar with. A few Jethro Tull songs. But it's more of an occasional thing.

I remember sometimes playing one or two Gentle Giant numbers that I liked early in the evening when I was DJ'ing (we had a very diverse clientele), but these prog guys would get really excited and start bringing Van der Graaf Generator and Tangerine Dream tapes, asking me to play stuff that would have cleared the place... You had to be careful with them.

Same with the Iron Maiden crowd, albeit in a different register.

But I guess it's not all black or white. I'm a huge fan of Voivod, Opeth, and Tool, and apparently they're considered prog by some people. For me Tool is Tool, I don't really think in terms of genre.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Rain

[craigb]

Never heard anyone consider Tangerine Dream prog before!

(I only have over 160 TD albums... ?)

[Rain]

19 minutes ago, craigb said:

Never heard anyone consider Tangerine Dream prog before!

(I only have over 160 TD albums... ?)

I guess me neither - but for some reason they seemed to appeal to the same bunch of fellows. As did Kraftwerk.

[Pragi]

On 10/18/2023 at 12:41 PM, Rain said:

One band that I keep trying to figure out is The Who. However, while I could still objectively appreciate Rush and I never thought of them as overrated even if I didn't like them, I find such a thing to be impossible with The Who.

That's what I've always tried with Van Halen, AC/DC, and the Beatles.

I know that this is great Bands, but I don't like their music.

The bass player and the drummer of the Who have been phenomenal.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Pragi