Zo Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Hola amigos mios !! One simple question , for a bass /guitar is there a length of instruments cable that when chooseen you start feeling the latency ? (in Meters please) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargg Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 I have never experienced this myself, but a friend of mine said not to go longer than 15 meters, or you'll notice it. All the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson white Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Latency? As in how far from the speakers? If so... The speed of sound is 343 meters per second. Latency = distance / speed of sound Guitar players can usually live with a few ms (2-5ms), so in round numbers; 1m ~ 3ms 2m ~ 6ms = something similar to performing on larger stages. Apparently there is a claim that humans can perceive 0.5ms https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28069695 Bass players...? ... Obsessive tone freaks (i.e. guitar players) might be more concerned with the capacitance of longer instrument cables. I've heard discussions favoring 2m or less. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargg Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 8 minutes ago, jackson white said: Latency? As in how far from the speakers? If so... The speed of sound is 343 meters per second. Latency = distance / speed of sound Guitar players can usually live with a few ms (2-5ms), so in round numbers; 1m ~ 3ms 2m ~ 6ms = something similar to performing on larger stages. Apparently there is a claim that humans can perceive 0.5ms https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28069695 Bass players...? ... Obsessive tone freaks (i.e. guitar players) might be more concerned with the capacitance of longer instrument cables. I've heard discussions favoring 2m or less. This is what I use myself, plus/minus 0.5 meters or so. (I make my own cables) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheens Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 afaik untill say 9 meters all is good/the same. Only if you go over AND have a not so strong signal it might help to address that. Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zo Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 Thks guyz , well my reflex is to be under 3 m as much as possible but my obssession of no cable apparent will maybe forces me to go 7 m50 witch is making double think ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBH Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Huh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iRelevant Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 I think Latency of the cable might not be the right word here. I thought electric signals move with near speed of light inside a cable. If I remember correctly speed of light is approximately 300 000 meters pr. second. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom B Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 (edited) Is the question about the time sound travels from the source (e.g. bass) to the ear? Or is it about quality of the signal/sound from the bass because of the cable? Here are some thoughts about both. In addition to the explanation by @jackson white above, a good rule to remember is: The speed of sound is approximately 1ms per foot -or- 3ms per meter (the speed of sound varies with temperature, air pressure, humidity). The length of the cable, practically, has nothing to do with the time it takes the sound of the instrument to reach the ear. As mentioned by others above, the sound quality of the instrument (e.g. bass, guitar, etc.) can be affected by the capacitance of the cable. The longer the cable, the higher the capacitance which causes high frequency loss. The amount of loss is dependent on many factors including: length of the cable, the impedance of the pickups/controls and amp input. I suggest looking for high-quality guitar "instrument" cables, with lower capacitance (per foot/meter). I tend to use Mogami 5 or 6 meter "Instrument" cables for recording guitar. But, that's certainly not an absolute rule. It's often a matter of personal choice. Frankly, I've gotten great results with cable runs that are much longer. Try some different lengths and see which ones you like! Some folks like a bit of high-end roll off. Hope that helps! Edit: By the way, active pickups tend to have lower output impedances which allow significantly longer cables. Edited October 27, 2021 by Tom B Two edits: Active pickup comment and typo 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 I used to have a turntable that you could switch between 33 rpm, 45 rpm or 78 rpm. These settings allowed me to change the speed of sound. ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 @Tom Bis right. It’s all about the capacitance of the cable and the impedance of the pickups. One note on the capacitance, the amp ( well mostly the speakers), is rolling off everything above 5k or so. It varies. Pre Rola Celestions, (and who doesn’t love some vintage Marshall tone?) Jensens; check the specs. Just saying’... t 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zo Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 Thks guyz , quality wise the cables i grab usually great , and as for sound quality , you guyz right about the impedance but i have no idea of what are those (not in specs) of pick ups ... usually to ensure quality of sound an dits integreity we integrate stuff (when needed like hum eliminateur and line shifter (when necessary witch also help cleaning he sound at the same time) but my question as a non player is do you guyz are impacted by latency introduced by long cables or is it marginal versus audio soundcard latency ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheens Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 no latency from the cable, maybe 0,000000000000001 % of software latency 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane_B. Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Zo said: but my question as a non player is do you guyz are impacted by latency introduced by long cables or is it marginal versus audio soundcard latency ... I used an 18' (5.5m) mic cable and an 8' (2.4m) guitar cable for 16 years live. I still have them and still use them to record. They are about 35 years old now. I never noticed any latency issues at all on stage or recording. That said, I just bought my first new mic cable in 35 years. It's 5' (1.5m). I got it so my recording cables aren't so tangled and messy. I use Hosa Technology cables. They are cheap, extremely well made, and I don't hear any noise when using the balanced ones. I've had cables made by Sweetwater and they were poor quality. There was no stress protection at the jacks and the wire bends at a 90 degree angle where it comes out of the jack if you aren't careful. Craig Anderton puts LED's in his cables. They act as a transient filter. I always wanted to try it but never took the time to do it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitflipper Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Electrical engineers actually have to deal with propagation delay, what we'd call latency, based on the lengths of conductors. Actually, it's about the inductive reactance that every conductor has. However, this only becomes a significant factor at very high frequencies, not at audio frequencies. You'd have to have a VERY long cable to get any noticeable delay. Inductance is also a factor in high-power transmission lines, but that's about synchronizing the 50/60Hz waveforms across multiple sources. There are, however, practical considerations when dealing with long audio cables. If they are coiled, their inductance will increase. If in a bundle, they will have inductive crosstalk. Then there is the distributed capacitance between the two internal conductors, which increases linearly with length. These don't affect timing, but they do affect frequency response. Standing waves affect the overall impedance and can cause a nonlinear attenuation and impedance mismatches. Then there are the electrical properties of inductive sources (guitar pickups) that also become part of the circuit. These are the reasons for recommending the shortest cables you can practically use. It has virtually nothing to do with latency. That said, a nice long 14-gauge power cable can be used as an improvised towing rope when the band van has slipped off a snowy road enroute to a gig. True fact. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane_B. Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 18 minutes ago, bitflipper said: If in a bundle, they will have inductive crosstalk. I used to work on Panasonic laser fax machines. They came out with a model back in the early 90's where about a month after you would install a new machine somewhere it couldn't see that there was a drum cartridge in it. There was a metal plate with an RJ45 jack that sent the signal from the cartridge to the control pcb. When you'd put the cartridge in it would automatically align and plug in with the jack. They put a nylon zip tie on too tight at the factory around the tiny fine wires going from the RJ45 jack to the control pcb and the crosstalk between the wires would screw up the cartridge detect signal. Panasonic had us go out and cut all the nylon zip ties on the cable and pop the cartridge in and out a few times and all was well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 I still remember back in the 80's having users fooled into thinking their computers would be faster with shorter cables... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane_B. Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, craigb said: I still remember back in the 80's having users fooled into thinking their computers would be faster with shorter cables... ? Hey! What? Darn. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zo Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share Posted November 3, 2021 On 10/27/2021 at 8:19 PM, craigb said: I still remember back in the 80's having users fooled into thinking their computers would be faster with shorter cables... ? Actually i did tests showing that my laptop were having less "latency " than desktops .... due to cables , you divid the distance by 2 , you divise time of travel by 2 , it's pure physics , now that said those time are in micros seconds but even do , the impact is more latency than full trip speed , it was abvious iwth parallel (ide) techs where the sync had to be preserved for all the trip , bad cable management were really felt .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoveCamper Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 I was always told length did not matter, it was how you used it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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