Acknowledge Cakewalk as a pro DAW

[sadicus]

Why do so many new software / hardware companies (like ROLI) refuse to acknowledge Cakewalk as a pro DAW?
Cakewalk has been around for so many years and IMO this is the best version. Fixes, new features and I actually make a suggestion and it's implemented! feels good man.
The Forums have always been helpful, calling tech support in the past, not so much.

Just curious if anyone  feels the same, I might just be overlooking something.

[Colin Nicholls]

Sound On Sound goes out of its way to NOT mention Cakewalk these days. There's no money in Free, I guess

[Toddskins]

Without elaborating my opinion on the music industry and extreme lack of competition (among the movers and shakers) and talent (musicians and songwriters) compared to yesterdecades, it would not hurt at all if some "super talents " that are recognized by the masses happen to mention Cakewalk as their favorite DAW.

So I guess it's up to us! 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Toddskins

[chris.r]

From my correspondence with uJam, the reasoning for it was that Cakewalk is Windows only. Period.

[marcL]

IMHO it is the result that quite a few of the more professional Sonar users left Cakewalk for another DAW or only use it occasionally nowadays. ? I've read a lot of such comments here on the forum where long-time Sonar/Cakewalk users say that they are very happy with their new DAW, that it is more stable and they regret that they did not switch earlier. Or some of those users simply admit using another DAW without comparison. That's why you do rarely hear comments of some of the former renown Cakewalk users anymore.

 

15 hours ago, chris.r said:

From my correspondence with uJam, the reasoning for it was that Cakewalk is Windows only. Period.

There are other Windows-only or Mac-only DAWS that are not treated like this! ?

 

16 hours ago, Colin Nicholls said:

Sound On Sound goes out of its way to NOT mention Cakewalk these days. There's no money in Free, I guess

I doubt it is only a money problem! This sounds too simple for me! I guess it has also to do with a DAW company's evolution direction and its user base.

Edited May 14, 2021 by marled

[Michael Vogel]

I’ve used Cakewalk since the mid nineties (Cakewalk 7 when it was just a MIDI sequencer without audio recording) and it’s been my experience that for whatever reason, its always had an image problem and recognition as a top line DAW. Gibson put the final nail in the reputation coffin by the way it managed the product and despite the excellent development by Bandlab and that it can easily hold its own against all comers today, (as it could in the past pre Gibson days too) now it needs to combat the additional stigma of being a free program with all the implications that that baggage adds to its reputation. Were it open source as well as free, I think it would take on a much broader appeal.

At one time or another I’ve owned every DAW available on the Windows platform (except SaDie) and Cakewalk has been the equal of any of them. Sure on a feature by feature basis there’s always something another DAW has that seems to be the most desirable feature at the time but generally speaking Cakewalk has always been the business.

Apple’s dominance (or at least the perception of it) in the Professional Multi media space has hurt Cakewalk’s standing due to its PC only position and despite the calls to add Apple compatibility, its just never been feasible either financially or technically (It would need to be rewritten from the ground up for Apple). The DAW market just isn’t big enough to generate the sort of income that could recover the investment. A few years back one of our prominent users who now prefers Studio One, wrote extensively on the subject of DAW sales and its not the vast pool of wealth we might imagine. He didn’t publish any confidential info as he was no doubt bound by non-disclosure agreements but nonetheless his message was clear. The DAW market is just this tiny corner in the vast ocean that is the music/entertainment industry.

At this point in time Meng’s vision for Cakewalk and how it’s tied to Bandlab removes any likelihood of it becoming cross platform, nor do I think it needs to. It obviously fulfils his need and how he purposes it to be now and how it will be going into the future.

For now be glad that such a remarkably capable DAW continues to be free yet developed extensively and continually by a dedicated team some of whom can claim decades of working with Cakewalk’s code.

[Alan Tubbs]

It is hard to make a go of it without an apple version of music software.  Such as one time owner Roland having to include a different apple daw with their hardware  along with their free sonar.  Being pc only cuts your customer base by half or more.  Most pro studios are apple and there is a natural tendency to look down on pc software and “other” it and think of it as for home use despite Cakewalk being a fully professional daw.  It can do everything other daws do, just not on the Mac.  Bandlab seems committed so be happy you have access to such great software so cheap and don’t worry what others think.

[kzmaier]

Advertising dollar gets the attention.  Also, people are more comfortable thinking the paid software has a better guarantee.  For me, Cakewalk is better than ever and the outlook is amazing!!!  Thanks to BandLab and the bakers for the fine work!!!

[John Vere]

Pro Studios will have both PC and Mac machines. They also  have to keep the machines loaded with most of the popular Daw's including Cakewalk. Sure the mega studios are different but who really cares what they are doing, that's another world outside most peoples dreams.   I'm taking about the 1,000's of working studios which are trying to survive in this DIY market. Lately I've run across more interviews with the people running these studios and they do mention using Cakewalk from time to time. Of course Studio 1 has become sort of the standard, and most people might use Pro Tools but it's rare you'll hear them say it's there favorite DAW. 

Musicians are starting albums at home and then they pay the studio for certain parts like drum tracking or vocals or mix down. Gone are the days of albums being recorded live in a proper studio. Very few will be done that way these days. These musicians are just like us and they eventually try all the daws and some might settle on Cakewalk. It's not much talked about in interviews with the bands because why would the fans care. 

And you still will see lists of the 10 most popular DAW's and Cakewalk isn't on that list but the internet has more way more false information than it has facts. 

And ya Cakewalk is free and therefor has no advertising budget and therefor you won't see it reviewed by the magazines. 

 

[twelvetone]

12 hours ago, marled said:

I've read a lot of such comments here on the forum where long-time Sonar/Cakewalk users say that they are very happy with their new DAW

I'm one of those. In my case I decided dependence on a DAW that needs constant re-registration is too risky.

  But Cakewalk/Sonar/Cakewalk NEVER got much love from the wider community and I cannot understand why.

I get the German "Keys", "Beat" and "Recording" magazines.

This month there is a Studio One tips article, but I cannot remember when last I saw a Cakewalk/Sonar article.

Edited May 14, 2021 by twelvetone

[Noel Borthwick]

We have needed registration since the SONAR days. Nothing has changed. It allows us to know how many users we have and keep the software up to date. As of releases this year, activation is completely automatic and once you have signed in to your BandLab account (from within Cakewalk) there is no manual intervention required anymore. It should automatically refresh itself whenever needed without needing any user intervention or the need for BandLab assistant.

Most other products require registration or worse, dongles. I think our system is as non intrusive as it gets for modern software. So I'm curious why you perceive this as being risky.

[Base 57]

On 5/13/2021 at 3:06 PM, sadicus said:

Why do so many new software / hardware companies (like ROLI) refuse to acknowledge Cakewalk as a pro DAW?

Why care?

I'm not aware of anything that Roli makes that I consider "Professional". Cakewalk has been getting the job done for me since it came on floppy disks.

I'm not going to be negative about other DAWs (I have owned and worked with several others) because they are all AWESOME. When I first started recording, cut and paste was done with a razor blade and Scotch Tape. All of the DAWs available today can do things that were impossible to do even in a million dollar facility back in the day. I like them all but am partial to Cakewalk; not because it's free but because it is most comfortable for me.

I think the work that The Bakers have done with Cakewalk since it was acquired by Bandlab is remarkable. It gets better practically every day. So as long as the owner is happy and continues to distribute it I will keep using Cakewalk. And I will continue to not care how it is perceived by the "Professionals".

 

 

[msmcleod]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:42 PM, chris.r said:

From my correspondence with uJam, the reasoning for it was that Cakewalk is Windows only. Period.

It's strange that the Music Industry seems to be the only industry that has this bias against Windows.

I've worked in a LOT of industries over the years - health, defence, hospitality, travel, retail, recruitment, law enforcement & security... I could go on... but in the vast majority of cases, it's Windows that is taken seriously, and the Mac is seen as being largely irrelevant and at most an afterthought.  I've not worked in finance, but have plenty of friends who do, and it's the same there.

The general consensus for most industries is Linux for servers,  Windows for desktop, although Windows has a significant footprint in the server market too.

Even a lot of parts of the media / design industries (e.g. video production, web design, architecture ), where the Mac has dominance, they at least put Windows and Mac on an even keel. 
 

[Xoo]

Graphic design that uses fonts still seems to be a Mac stronghold in my (current) experience.

[John Vere]

Our School district started with Macs because they got some sort of educational deal on them, those little iMacs. They where 100% Mac for 2 decades even the servers. But buy the mid 2000's the IT crew started recommending they move away because in the real world of business nobody uses Macs. It was getting hard to service them and real expensive to replace. I took on the task of destroying or wiping the hard drives on about 200 of these puppys. The deal was I could do what every I wanted but all data must be destroyed. There was also over100 Compact towers all running W98 with these huge 10 GB hard drives, Anyhow they now use nothing but PC's  with the exception of the teachers still have Mac Books. The little iMacs all had the same RAM and Hard drives etc you find in a PC. I guess only the MObo is different. But I learned a lot about them in those days and had a few set up including I re imaged one of the Servers which was a smoking studio computer. I made about $2,000 on ebay selling for parts,, mostly selling RAM. But I never felt there was any advantage to the OS or the machines. Huge issue is there's very little free stuff for Macs. 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by John Vere

[chris.r]

My son is having music tech in his school where they teach how to operate Cubase and Ableton Live yet the teacher asked lately to create bandlab accounts and I was like whaat?  I remember seeing only Macs in the class room there when I was last time about 2 years ago but now he says they've swapped to Windows.

[noynekker]

Well, by definition . . . if you can make your living from using a program, then it is indeed a "Professional" software. If you don't depend on it to make a living, then you will use what you can afford, and what is a comfortable user interface, easy to learn, stable, and what gets the job done.

Are there actually any real world statistics about which DAW software the people making money in music recording and creation these days are using ?

Are there actually any real world statistics about which OS (Mac or PC) the people making money in music recording and creation these days are using ?

I'd like to see those numbers, because it seems to me in recent years the traditional music business model has morphed into something completely different, where a knowledge of many different types of software is essential. Does free software like Cakewalk by BandLab really need a massive marketing campaign ? No need for hype or important exposure in the magazines, full page spreads, social media buzz, advertisements . . . cuz it's free, and it's been around since the beginning of DAWs.

[Larry Jones]

1 hour ago, noynekker said:

Are there actually any real world statistics...

Earlier in this thread @Michael Vogel made an oblique reference to a post by @Craig Anderton of a couple years ago in which he hinted a that he knew some of those real world statistics but couldn't divulge them because, IIRC, they were compiled by a company that made its living selling such stats to marketers, so the info was proprietary and privileged. Maybe Craig will jump in here and clarify.

But to me, the numbers didn't matter then and they don't matter now. Cakewalk is a massive, powerful recording studio-in-a-box that does everything I need it to do and is capable of making recordings that would be competitive in any setting. It might matter if I were a freelance producer for hire, but I work in my own project studio and I don't need my software to get any particular recognition from others. I'm guessing the majority of us use Cakewalk in much the same way. Who cares what non-users think?

[marcL]

8 hours ago, msmcleod said:

It's strange that the Music Industry seems to be the only industry that has this bias against Windows.

I've worked in a LOT of industries over the years - health, defence, hospitality, travel, retail, recruitment, law enforcement & security... I could go on... but in the vast majority of cases, it's Windows that is taken seriously, and the Mac is seen as being largely irrelevant and at most an afterthought.  I've not worked in finance, but have plenty of friends who do, and it's the same there.

The general consensus for most industries is Linux for servers,  Windows for desktop, although Windows has a significant footprint in the server market too.

Even a lot of parts of the media / design industries (e.g. video production, web design, architecture ), where the Mac has dominance, they at least put Windows and Mac on an even keel. 
 

I agree with you that it is somehow strange! Also, I can approve that in most other industries Windows is taken seriously. The only thing to come to mind as a reason is that in most of those other industries there are professional IT guys that handle the Windows desktops and they prevent Microsoft to undermine the system stability with their permanent updates! On the other side most professional and hobbiest music studios can't afford having permanent ITs to handle Windows. As a result the permanent Microsoft updates create a lot of hassle. I've seen this myself! I have least trouble with my offline DAW that still has Windows 10 Pro 1909 ! I really don't understand and agree to forcing software updates, except for things like Windows Defender!

[marcL]

11 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

As of releases this year, activation is completely automatic

This is only true if your system is always online, not for offline usage! On the other hand I do NOT have any objection doing offline activation with the Bandlab Assistent, so far it works witout any issues and is no big deal! ? It is even not necessary to update the Assistant on the online computer!

11 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Most other products require registration or worse, dongles.

I agree, but it is not necessary to do it repeatedly as long as you keep the same pc system.

Dongles have the advantage that they are not bound to the system, but with CbB this is no problem as there is no limitation.