Audiosnap and other workflow issues

[Craig Reeves]

Cakewalk is the buggiest major DAW and it's not even close. There is a reason Cakewalk failed as a commercial product even against more limited DAWs like Reaper and FL Studio and I can't imagine this not being at least one the reasons. It's unacceptable and embarrassing.

I get that's it's free but it was actually WORSE in the past when it wasn't free.

When Cakewalk actually works it is excellent. It just doesn't work very often, and MANY features are just plain broken.

Just focus on bug fixes for the next year. Seriously. And I don't say any of this out of malice. I say this because I genuinely want Cakewalk to do better. Consider this tough love. I've used this DAW since 2000 and I've spent a lot of money on Cakewalk and their products. If I didn't care or preferred some other DAW I wouldn't be here.

But it feels often that NOTHING ever works right in this DAW. I literally find a new frustrating bug every single time I use it. Using this DAW is an exhausting experience all too often. It's just not fun anymore. That is why people left this DAW in droves. It doesn't seem as though any of these bugs ever get fixed despite being reported multiple times by multiple people. 

I've compared Cakewalk to Ableton Live 10 and Pro Tools which I'm more or less equally proficient in. Ableton certainly has its problems and I do think Cakewalk despite my complaints is the better program for my needs. I've also compared it to Pro Tools. Pro Tools is TRASH. By far the most overrated DAW on the planet. Workflow is awful, lacks several key features for production and Avid is downright abysmal to deal with....and it's overpriced (as is Ableton Suite). Pro Tools is an awful program and I only use it when I have to. 

But the MAJOR advantage Ableton and Pro Tools have as far as I'm concerned is that THEY WORK. They're reliable. Limited in many ways? Yes. But IT JUST WORKS. It doesn't crash, no new sudden bugs I've never seen before, no oddities that have been long reported that haven't been addressed. Trust me, if you think I'm rough on Cakewalk, I'm worse to Ableton and I've pretty much all but given up on Avid.

These are just a few issues. Suddenly, Legato.cal doesn't work right anymore. Instead, it just shortens the note lengths to 64th notes instead of connects them no matter what setting (whether it be 10 or 100, doesn't matter) I use. This didn't happen until today. You really never know what you're going to get with this DAW. Video below:

 

So I think, "OK, let's try re-installing Cakewalk to see if that will fix the problem". And in pure Cakewalk fashion, I run into yet ANOTHER bug trying to simply reinstall the thing. BTW, no other DAW has this problem (which is a common theme with Cakewalk, which may be why they're still in business and Cakewalk is not). 

No other choice but to choose "Skip this file (not recommended)". It didn't fix the Legato problem, btw. *sigh*....this freaking DAW...

Quick-group latch automation STILL doesn't work properly and has been a bug since at least SONAR X3, despite reporting of it being detailed multiple times in how to reproduce the error. Video below of this error and how to reproduce: 

 

AudioSnap....oh boy....we all know that's broken. Here's just one example...

 

Workflow issues abound with regard to cutting, copying and pasting....

 

At this point I'm just honestly at my wits end. What's even worse is that very often bugs can't even be reproduced because they only exist in a particular project (the dreaded Cakewalk per-project bugs). Bugs that are limited to a particular project, which is strange. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've said "Welp, looks like [insert feature here] isn't working in this project for some reason. It's just frustrating, kills creativity and is downright infuriating.

I promise I'm not trying to be nasty. I'm really not. But the truth really needs to be said, because the reality, and you all know I'm right about this, is that all too often, it just seems obvious that the only people who still love Cakewalk are those who have not used anything else. The minute they try a Studio One or a Logic or whatever they see all the flaws Cakewalk has. Well I'm honestly tired of seeing that. I want Cakewalk to do better. Maybe if Cakewalk does, they might get picked up by a big company and be back in business again. But until I start seeing different I can't really recommend this DAW to others and at this point the only reason I even still use it is because I am too busy to learn anything else and I favor over the other DAWs I know well (Pro Tools and Ableton).

Edited February 16, 2021 by Craig Reeves

[timboalogo]

Dude, if Cakewalk doesn't agree with you, then you absolutely should use something else. Go to Abelton, if that's what you need.

Cakewalk works for me, and has for more than 15 years, especially on the last album I recorded with it.

Timbo

PS Access was probably denied because you still had the application open (and therefore the dll) in some form. That's usually how the error happens.

Edited February 13, 2021 by timboalogo

[Craig Reeves]

3 minutes ago, timboalogo said:

Dude, if Cakewalk doesn't agree with you, then you absolutely should use something else. Go to Abelton, if that's what you need.

Cakewalk works for me, and has for more than 15 years, especially on the last album I recorded with it.

Timbo

PS Access was probably denied because you still had the application open (and therefore the dll) in some form. That's usually how the error happens.

Cakewalk clearly doesn't work for a lot of people which why hardly anyone uses it anymore. I want to see that change. Cakewalk has a ton of potential and I don't like seeing it go to waste. And I've used Cakewalk for 21 years so I'm in the same boat. Literally the only real tragic flaw of Cakewalk for decades has been its instability and numerous bugs.

I can say all kinds of negative things about America, but that doesn't mean I don't love America and want to move to another country. I hate when people say stuff like this. Nobody ever addresses these kinds of problems and anybody who expresses legitimate concerns with this product is bullied into leaving. This kind of behavior isn't helpful to Cakewalk.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Craig Reeves

[solarlux]

Agree about Audio Snap it should be fixed. I know all these things will be fixed if Bakers informed about this. This DAW will become best DAW

[Craig Reeves]

1 minute ago, solarlux said:

Agree about Audio Snap it should be fixed. I know all these things will be fixed if Bakers informed about this. This DAW will become best DAW

The sad thing is that in many ways it already is the best. There are GREAT qualities about Cakewalk. It's just frustrating seeing so much potential being wasted because of bugs that have been around for years yet still haven't been fixed.

But everytime I mention anything about it people will just say "go back to Ableton" or whatever. People who claim to be so pro-Cakewalk telling somebody who left another DAW who came to Cakewalk to "go back" to the DAW they came from. Who does that?

Edited February 13, 2021 by Craig Reeves

[solarlux]

8 minutes ago, Craig Reeves said:

The sad thing is that in many ways it already is the best. There are GREAT qualities about Cakewalk. It's just frustrating seeing so much potential being wasted because of bugs that have been around for years yet still haven't been fixed.

But everytime I mention anything about it people will just say "go back to Ableton" or whatever. People who claim to be so pro-Cakewalk telling somebody who left another DAW who came to Cakewalk to "go back" to the DAW they came from. Who does that?

Yes but we all together need Help Bakers to track all these bugs and they can fix it i know. We all can make this DAW Best of all.Many bugs fixed already and i know also Audio snap problems will be fixed. About CAL scripts they are obsolette and Cakewalk don't work with CAL scripting anymo0re.

Edited February 13, 2021 by solarlux

[Craig Reeves]

With regard to Legao, why they don't just have a Legato option under Process is beyond me. Retrograde but no Legato...oversight.

[solarlux]

1 minute ago, Craig Reeves said:

With regard to Legao, why they don't just have a Legato option under Process is beyond me. Retrograde but no Legato...oversight.

CAL scripts are obsolete and they are not developed anymore i think in futrure they will make better option for this than CAL script.

[solarlux]

@Craig Reeves Ablteon have big budget and development team but and also atleast 20 million budget  Cakewalk havent so big. But we all together can help to make it best of all

Edited February 13, 2021 by solarlux

[solarlux]

About cut and paste i like in Studio one have Ctrl+L shortcut u need only select all what u want move and press ctrl+ L  and it locates struff to cursor 1 step instead of 2 steps cntrl+x and cntrl+v

Edited February 13, 2021 by solarlux

[Noel Borthwick]

Nobody likes bugs interrupting their workflow but if you think that other programs dont have similar bugs you likely havent used them for very long periods of time or your workflow doesnt expose similar issues. 
Regarding fixing bugs, it has been an utmost priority for at least the last 3 years. Have you looked at the changelog? We’ve fixed over a thousand issues besides all the optimizations and new features.
We are a small team and we do the best we can. Cakewalk is an enormously complex application and can be used in thousands of different ways so a bug that affects one user may never be seen by another. This is the main reason why one person may have flawless performance and another might not. If you take the effort to provide detailed steps most of the time we are able to resolve issues rapidly. CAL is an ancient legacy feature that we hardly ever look at so I’m not surprised that there may be a few issues there. Ultimately we plan on replacing it. We’ll look at the other issues.

 

[Craig Reeves]

6 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Nobody likes bugs interrupting their workflow but if you think that other programs dont have similar bugs you likely havent used them for very long periods of time or your workflow doesnt expose similar issues. 
Regarding fixing bugs, it has been an utmost priority for at least the last 3 years. Have you looked at the changelog? We’ve fixed over a thousand issues besides all the optimizations and new features.
We are a small team and we do the best we can. Cakewalk is an enormously complex application and can be used in thousands of different ways so a bug that affects one user may never be seen by another. This is the main reason why one person may have flawless performance and another might not. If you take the effort to provide detailed steps most of the time we are able to resolve issues rapidly. CAL is an ancient legacy feature that we hardly ever look at so I’m not surprised that there may be a few issues there. Ultimately we plan on replacing it. We’ll look at the other issues.

 

I know you guys are trying, which is why I am here and no longer use Ableton as my main DAW. They've rested on their laurels over there and really aren't the least bit concerned about actually making their DAW actually good. It's claim to fame is that it is really well marketed and comes with a bunch of stock plugins out of the box (and live performance features, whatever). 

I use two other DAWs, Pro Tools and Ableton daily. They indeed have their bugs, but not as bad as Cakewalk.  Those DAWs have their own severe problems. I'll be the first to say that. Pro Tools is awful and I don't like Ableton that much for large projects. Trust and believe, those DAWs have other severe problems which is why I don't use them anymore as my main DAW.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Craig Reeves

[Craig Reeves]

I'm sorry I'm just super frustrated and in a bad mood. All I wanted to do was some basic MIDI sequencing and ran into a litany of bugs. 

[TVR PRODUCTIONS]

I have minimal issues with Cakewalk and I have used it since the 90s. I don’t use scripts so I don’t care about that. As far as Elasirique, you already figured out a great workaround that does what you need with the groove agent.  So, not a problem.  As for cut and paste, it works perfectly for me as long as I know which bar that the info begins at.  Just click on that first measure and paste. I never tried to copy blank info before the data. 
 

I paid for Samplitude X3=Pro and had nothing but problems.   More problems with X4 and more with x5.  I uninstalled it all and stuck with Cakewalk the entire time. So, if there are a few bugs, find a workaround, which you already have, and just use it. If it is that bad, switch DAWs.  You want my Samplitude license? 

[mkerl]

1 hour ago, Craig Reeves said:

I know you guys are trying, which is why I am here

They are not only trying, they are DOING a great job. 

I'm quite happy with cakewalk and have nothing to complain.   I have S1 and Cubase as well, and I use Cubase for some Reasons parallel sometimes, but I prefer Cakewalk.

One thing you don't get with other DAWs: The Cakewalk  Staff is listening, reacting and  putting Ideas and  needs into action in no time. For free. Simply incredible !!!

Beside that: Cakewalk is still the most complete Daw on the market - ok, the staff view . . . . chordtrack . . . . . I look forward to ?

I don't know, I just don't understand some People. Maybe I'm too old right now . . . . . 

Edited February 14, 2021 by mkerl

[John Vere]

I think what Noel said about some of us never run into issues is hugely true. I’m one   I read about the complaints and I scratch my head thinking “ WT heck is that dude trying to do anyway. 
It’s like people think software should conform to their way of thinking and if it doesn’t work that way they cry bugs 

I spent hours and hours working with midi and audio adding effects and what not , nothing hugely complicated , and months go by and everything works as planned day in day out. Cakewalk can be quirky but all software is such. 

I just upgraded from Movie Studio 14 to 17. Now that’s bugs. I returned to 14 and it is stable. At least Cakewalk has gone in the right direction and for me it is 99.9 % stable as a rock. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by John Vere

[Byron Dickens]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

It’s like people think software should conform to their way of thinking and if it doesn’t work that way they cry bugs 

No kidding.

Computers do what you tell them to, not what you want them to.

[Byron Dickens]

3 hours ago, Craig Reeves said:

Cakewalk is the buggiest major DAW and it's not even close. There is a reason Cakewalk failed as a commercial product even against more limited DAWs like Reaper and FL Studio and I can't imagine this not being at least one the reasons. It's unacceptable and embarrassing.

I get that's it's free but it was actually WORSE in the past when it wasn't free.

When Cakewalk actually works it is excellent. It just doesn't work very often, and MANY features are just plain broken.

Just focus on bug fixes for the next year. Seriously. And I don't say any of this out of malice. I say this because I genuinely want Cakewalk to do better. Consider this tough love. I've used this DAW since 2000 and I've spent a lot of money on Cakewalk and their products. If I didn't care or preferred some other DAW I wouldn't be here.

But it feels often that NOTHING ever works right in this DAW. I literally find a new frustrating bug every single time I use it. Using this DAW is an exhausting experience all too often. It's just not fun anymore. That is why people left this DAW in droves. It doesn't seem as though any of these bugs ever get fixed despite being reported multiple times by multiple people. 

I've compared Cakewalk to Ableton Live 10 and Pro Tools which I'm more or less equally proficient in. Ableton certainly has its problems and I do think Cakewalk despite my complaints is the better program for my needs. I've also compared it to Pro Tools. Pro Tools is TRASH. By far the most overrated DAW on the planet. Workflow is awful, lacks several key features for production and Avid is downright abysmal to deal with....and it's overpriced (as is Ableton Suite). Pro Tools is an awful program and I only use it when I have to. 

But the MAJOR advantage Ableton and Pro Tools have as far as I'm concerned is that THEY WORK. They're reliable. Limited in many ways? Yes. But IT JUST WORKS. It doesn't crash, no new sudden bugs I've never seen before, no oddities that have been long reported that haven't been addressed. Trust me, if you think I'm rough on Cakewalk, I'm worse to Ableton and I've pretty much all but given up on Avid.

These are just a few issues. Suddenly, Legato.cal doesn't work right anymore. Instead, it just shortens the note lengths to 64th notes instead of connects them no matter what setting (whether it be 10 or 100, doesn't matter) I use. This didn't happen until today. You really never know what you're going to get with this DAW. Video below:

 

So I think, "OK, let's try re-installing Cakewalk to see if that will fix the problem". And in pure Cakewalk fashion, I run into yet ANOTHER bug trying to simply reinstall the thing. BTW, no other DAW has this problem (which is a common theme with Cakewalk, which may be why they're still in business and Cakewalk is not). 

No other choice but to choose "Skip this file (not recommended)". It didn't fix the Legato problem, btw. *sigh*....this freaking DAW...

Quick-group latch automation STILL doesn't work properly and has been a bug since at least SONAR X3, despite reporting of it being detailed multiple times in how to reproduce the error. Video below of this error and how to reproduce: 

 

AudioSnap....oh boy....we all know that's broken. Here's just one example...

 

Workflow issues abound with regard to cutting, copying and pasting....

 

At this point I'm just honestly at my wits end. What's even worse is that very often bugs can't even be reproduced because they only exist in a particular project (the dreaded Cakewalk per-project bugs). Bugs that are limited to a particular project, which is strange. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've said "Welp, looks like [insert feature here] isn't working in this project for some reason. It's just frustrating, kills creativity and is downright infuriating.

I promise I'm not trying to be nasty. I'm really not. But the truth really needs to be said, because the reality, and you all know I'm right about this, is that all too often, it just seems obvious that the only people who still love Cakewalk are those who have not used anything else. The minute they try a Studio One or a Logic or whatever they see all the flaws Cakewalk has. Well I'm honestly tired of seeing that. I want Cakewalk to do better. Maybe if Cakewalk does, they might get picked up by a big company and be back in business again. But until I start seeing different I can't really recommend this DAW to others and at this point the only reason I even still use it is because I am too busy to learn anything else and I favor over the other DAWs I know well (Pro Tools and Ableton).

So, do you document things & send bug reports or just bitch?

[RobertWS]

2 hours ago, bdickens said:

So, do you document things & send bug reports or just bitch?

That is good parenting.

?

[Craig Reeves]

4 hours ago, bdickens said:

So, do you document things & send bug reports or just bitch?

This is exactly what I was talking about in my post and also the reason why many people who have problems don't "bitch", they'll just find something else to use, which is probably at least one of the reasons Cakewalk did poor business (along with poor marketing) when it wasn't free. Most people don't "bitch", they just use something else, and as you can see I literally just got finished documenting every one of the bugs I brought up not only this time, but in the past as well. Every one of those videos I posted are videos I have posted before on this forum. I do not just come on here and "bitch", I give full details on how to reproduce the bugs, but I STILL get flack from at least one person every time I do. The problem is that people like you don't actually read the full context of a post before commenting.

There is a history of people expressing their frustration with this DAW but then getting attacked by people like yourself for telling it like it is. I suspect this is why some of these bugs don't actually end up getting addressed, because folks don't want to deal with the bullying, the gaslighting and the attacks for bringing up legitimate problems. Because rather than simply addressing the fact that yes, X issue is indeed a bug I was able to successfully reproduce and therefore needs to be addressed, people will either literally tell you that you're imagining it (gaslighting), tell you it's not their problem, or tell you to "quit bitching". That needs to end if these problems are going to get addressed.

I want you to notice that hardly any of the bugs I brought up have even been addressed in this thread. All I get is "well, it's not my problem because I don't care about X feature", or "Cakewalk works fine for me". As Noel mentioned, people use Cakewalk for many different reasons. If all you're doing is tracking vocals or guitars, you're not going to run into problems with VST instruments or MIDI. If all you do is compose film and game music, it is unlikely you will run into problems with the Matrix, etc. I produce R&B and pop music, so I'm probably not going to run into articulation map issues because I don't use the articulation map often. 

I've never said that Cakewalk doesn't work at all. I said compared to the other DAWs I use, it is much buggier than those DAWs. It crashes far more often, and has way more broken features. That is not to say that Pro Tools doesn't have bugs too, or Ableton. They do. But they are far more stable and have far fewer broken features that don't work. As I've said multiple times already, I still prefer Cakewalk to both those other DAWs, but that doesn't mean there aren't areas I feel Cakewalk is inferior. 

The reason I single Cakewalk's problems out is because I'm on Cakewalk's forum.

We have to face the reality that Cakewalk's future is uncertain, and I want to continue to use this DAW. I actually want Cakewalk to survive because I love it. But we have to be honest and live with the fact that it is not good enough that Cakewalk be AS GOOD as Studio One or Cubase, it has to be BETTER. Because in order to catch up you have to be going faster. That's a fact. Cakewalk is already 5 laps behind in a 30 lap race. And Cakewalk has the potential to be that good. It's only real flaw are the bugs.

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Craig Reeves