FR: Seamless Zooming & Panning (based on Melodyne zoom)

[Peter Hintze]

What would make working with Cakewalk much more fluid would be the following:

Seamless zooming and panning only by extending the existing functionality in Cakewalk:

1. Horizontal Pan and Zoom based on the behaviour of the "timeline zooming" without the need to find the spot on the timeline that activates the timeline panning and zooming.  --> This could be done just by pressing e.g. Alt+Ctrl+Drag  (horizontal) any place in the Track View, PRV or any other view.

2. Vertical Pan and Zoom similar to timeline zooming but vertically by Alt+Ctrl+Drag (vertical) any place in the Track View, PRV or any other view.

IMO this would be a great workflow improvement as it reduces unneccesary mouse- and eye-movements away from the actual editing area and creates a seamless workflow around the actual task at hand (e.g. clip editing, automation envelopes, etc.).

What do you guys think?

 Peter 

 

Quote

 

Edit: old post:

As a long time user since 1998 I would like to see:

1. faster and more intuitive navigation & zooming, e.. g. like zooming in Kontakt Mapping View= Alt+LMB+Drag to zoom in, Alt+LMB+NoDrag to zoom out one step

2. freely assignable zoom & navigation & hide/unhide keys/select /etc some keys are fixed defaults which are far apart  and not close to the left hand (e.g.. Z, U etc.) 

I am sure other DAWs with shorter history have found good solutions for project navigating. Just copy the best and most intuitive ideas. 

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Peter Hintze

[David Baay]

I'm not familiar with Kontakt Mapping View.  You're familiar with zooming by Ctrl+Alt+Mouse Wheel...? And dragging up/down/left/right in the timeline...? And selecting a region or clicking/Alt+clicking with the Zoom tool (enabled by Z)...?

If none of those are ideal, I think the Bakers will need you to clarify how a new method will work significantly better, beyond just being able to chose which modifiers /hotkeys to use (which is always good).

Also I'm not fully understanding: "some keys are fixed defaults which are far apart  and not close to the left hand (e.g.. Z, U etc.) "

Z certainly is close to the left hand, and  U is unassigned by default.

Not trying to discount that there's a better mouse trap out there.  But if  I don't get exactly what is needed and why, the Bakers might not either

[Peter Hintze]

Hello David, thank you for your patient explaing. 

Have  a look at this video from minute 6:11. I think it is Apple Logic? 

See how he is zooming (vertically/horizontally) seamlessly and also panning the track view, all in one go. Without having the need put the cursor to the timeline, and apparently without steps as it would be when using the scroll wheel or pressing keys. 

It seems it is, some kind of Ctrl+Drag command like I suggested. 

 

What do you think? 

 

Peter 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Peter Hintze

[JoseC]

You don´t really need to drag in the timeline in Cakewalk, either. Use the Zoom tool. Press Z, the cursor changes to a magnifying glass, like in the video. Drag select the area in the clips pane where you want to zoom to, and it will zoom to it until it fills your screen. Press ALT-Z and instantly go back to where you were before. If you drag select while keeping Z pressed, when you release it changes back to the previous tool, also. If not, you need to press Z again to let go of the Zoom tool. You can zoom in repeatedly this way, and if you want to go back, you also need to press repeatedly ALT-Z, which might be inconvenient, so what I do in that case is to press SHIFT -F so all the project fits on screen, and then zoom select the area where I want to go. I think this is a faster way to navigate than any other possible method. The only problem is that in the PRV the Zoom tool works, but ALT-Z does not.

[Peter Hintze]

Thanks Jose, but this all this does little what it is seen in the video. 

[Peter Hintze]

I think i can now describe what i would like better and it is based on actual existing functionality in Cakewalk:

1. Horizontal Pan and Zoom behaviour of the "timeline zooming" without the need to find the spot on the timeline that activates the timeline panning and zooming.  --> I think this could be done just by pressing e.g. Alt+Drag (or Ctrl or Shift) any place in the Track View, PRV or any other view.

2. Vertical Pan and Zoom similar to timeline zooming but vertically by Shift+Alt+Drag any place in the Track View, PRV or any other view.

IMO this would be a great workflow improvement as it reduces unneccesary mouse- and eye-movements away from the actual editing area alot and dreates a seamless workflow around the actual tasks  at hand (e.g. cli editing, automation envelopes, etc.).

 

What do you guys think?

Peter

[JoseC]

52 minutes ago, Peter Hintze said:

Thanks Jose, but this all this does little what it is seen in the video. 

It zooms to the desired area, faster. It is of course different, because it zooms instantly. In the video each time he zooms he needs to zoom in and out a little and then center the area in the screen. With the zoom tool in CbB you just need to drag select a marquee and it zooms instantly to it, centering it in the screen. No "camera movements". 

[winkpain]

I totally agree with @Peter Hintze

What would be great throughout the Cakewalk environment is a more nuanced zoom like is seen in the referenced video and like we already get with the timeline click-drag zoom  and especially with the Melodyne zoom within CW is a far more functional zoom compared to quick jumps. It allows our visual-mental focus to remain on the area in question as we approach it with an organic, flowing digital screen focus. The quick indexed jumps of zoom always leave us wondering exactly where we are, and there is a necessary period of reorientation to get our bearings before finding what we were looking at to begin with.

The timeline zoom is the something towards the style we're talking about - a simple click-drag with a fluid perspective change, hand and eyes staying fixed the whole time. It, however, only functions for horizontal zoom.

Exactly what we have in the Melodyne view would be fantastic in the other CW views (Track view and PRV view specifically). Here we simply hold CTRL-ALT and left-click drag, vertically for vertical zoom, horizontally for horizontal zoom and/or a combination of both, all functioning in essentially one fluid and easy to focus on movement.

[Peter Hintze]

5 hours ago, winkpain said:

I totally agree with @Peter Hintze

What would be great throughout the Cakewalk environment is a more nuanced zoom like is seen in the referenced video and like we already get with the timeline click-drag zoom  and especially with the Melodyne zoom within CW is a far more functional zoom compared to quick jumps. It allows our visual-mental focus to remain on the area in question as we approach it with an organic, flowing digital screen focus. The quick indexed jumps of zoom always leave us wondering exactly where we are, and there is a necessary period of reorientation to get our bearings before finding what we were looking at to begin with.

The timeline zoom is the something towards the style we're talking about - a simple click-drag with a fluid perspective change, hand and eyes staying fixed the whole time. It, however, only functions for horizontal zoom.

Exactly what we have in the Melodyne view would be fantastic in the other CW views (Track view and PRV view specifically). Here we simply hold CTRL-ALT and left-click drag, vertically for vertical zoom, horizontally for horizontal zoom and/or a combination of both, all functioning in essentially one fluid and easy to focus on movement.

A very nice description @winkpain ! Yes, I totally agree. 

I have never used Melodyne, interesting that they do it exactly the way I imagined it for Cakewalk TV and PRV. 

Hopefully this becomes a focus in one of the next updates. 

Peter 

Ps.. I edited the initial post according to your suggestions (Melodyne). 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Peter Hintze

[marcL]

8 hours ago, winkpain said:

I totally agree with @Peter Hintze

What would be great throughout the Cakewalk environment is a more nuanced zoom like is seen in the referenced video and like we already get with the timeline click-drag zoom  and especially with the Melodyne zoom within CW is a far more functional zoom compared to quick jumps. It allows our visual-mental focus to remain on the area in question as we approach it with an organic, flowing digital screen focus. The quick indexed jumps of zoom always leave us wondering exactly where we are, and there is a necessary period of reorientation to get our bearings before finding what we were looking at to begin with.

The timeline zoom is the something towards the style we're talking about - a simple click-drag with a fluid perspective change, hand and eyes staying fixed the whole time. It, however, only functions for horizontal zoom.

Exactly what we have in the Melodyne view would be fantastic in the other CW views (Track view and PRV view specifically). Here we simply hold CTRL-ALT and left-click drag, vertically for vertical zoom, horizontally for horizontal zoom and/or a combination of both, all functioning in essentially one fluid and easy to focus on movement.

To me the Melodyne zooming (and scrolling) feels terrible! And I worked/work a lot with Melodyne, but till today I never get comfortable with zooming and scrolling! And there is no way to redefine it (like in Samplitude)!

I prefer the zooming and scrolling of CbB with Alt+mousewheel, resp. Ctrl+mousewheel! I have even reconfigured Samplitude to zoom/scroll that way!

[user 905133]

[OT question withdrawn]

Edited May 16, 2020 by User 905133
OT question withdrawn

[winkpain]

@marled

This more fluid zooming (like in Melodyne) did take a little getting used to. It can make you a little "sea sick" at first. But once I got used to it, it was like a switch flipped and it became second nature. You feel more "one with the machine", so to speak.

BUT, of course each person has their own preferred style. Both methods have their benefits. For sure making a quick, concise indexed jump to a precise point is necessary at times.  And for me a more fluid pan-and-zoom controlled with a single hand movement is the usually preferred way to hone in on something, especially something that you might not know exactly where it is but know the region.  After all, it's like the two-finger pinch/zoom and move that we've gotten so used to on touchscreens.

To have the choice, 'tho,  is the point here. Clearly the function is possible,so let's add it to the arsenal alongside Mouse Wheel zoom, Z/drag-select, Key bindings, etc.

[Peter Hintze]

22 hours ago, User 905133 said:

Is there any way to turn these animations off? 

quite childish to down-thumb all my on-topic posts. your post was off-topic and didn't add anything to this thread. that's why I gave my reasonable opinion. 

 

[user 905133]

Sorry you thought ill of a question you felt was off-topic in the topic you started.  Honestly, I had no idea that the question was unreasonable and worthy of a thumbs down.  My intent was not to offend you.  I have removed the question.

Edited May 16, 2020 by User 905133

[Peter Hintze]

@User 905133

thanks. I just reacted like this, because it happens a lot that in threads like these the main topic that focuses on one specific detail gets derailed by off-topic posts - unintentionally but nevertheless. 

thank you for understanding. have a nice day.. read you around!

Peter 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Peter Hintze

[JoseC]

On 5/15/2020 at 5:33 PM, winkpain said:

@marled

This more fluid zooming (like in Melodyne) did take a little getting used to. It can make you a little "sea sick" at first. But once I got used to it, it was like a switch flipped and it became second nature. You feel more "one with the machine", so to speak.

BUT, of course each person has their own preferred style. Both methods have their benefits. For sure making a quick, concise indexed jump to a precise point is necessary at times.  And for me a more fluid pan-and-zoom controlled with a single hand movement is the usually preferred way to hone in on something, especially something that you might not know exactly where it is but know the region.  After all, it's like the two-finger pinch/zoom and move that we've gotten so used to on touchscreens.

To have the choice, 'tho,  is the point here. Clearly the function is possible,so let's add it to the arsenal alongside Mouse Wheel zoom, Z/drag-select, Key bindings, etc.

Yes, that fluid but kind of shaky zooming is something I personally do not like.  I prefer drag selecting an area with the zoom tool and zooming in instantly. It would be enough for me they did fix that ALT-Z does not work in the PRV,  but of course  I am ok with having well implemented choices.

[Peter Hintze]

Hi,

 

are there any updates on this? Does anybody know if the roadmap for the coming months includes improvements for Track View / PRV navigation? 

 

thx

[Will.]

24 minutes ago, Peter Hintze said:

Hi,

 

are there any updates on this? Does anybody know if the roadmap for the coming months includes improvements for Track View / PRV navigation? 

 

thx

Have you tried alt+mouse wheel roll? 

If it's not on by default, go to Options in the track pane, scroll down to > Mouse wheel zoom options click on it and set your settings at now time and active track (I think that's what it reads) or which ever you prefet - not in front of the Studio System right now. 

Hope it's what you're looking for. 

You can also try the Ctrl+left,right,up and down directional arrow keys on the keyboard. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Will_Kaydo

[Peter Hintze]

any updates on this?