Keni

2 hours ago, Jaime Ramírez said:

Yes... I expermented this issue with vst instruments multi outputs in MONO tracks.. The mono tracks will be 3db louder. And when bounce a stereo vst instruments in split mono tracks, the same results. With stereo tracks isn't happen. I prefer in multi outputs bounce in a stereo track (put in solo and make a bounce with the main output master). 

Yes. That makes sense now though I believe it could/should be fixed.

Isn't 3db the popular panning change? Gain reduces 3db moving from center to edge (i may have it backwards.).

So that now explains a lot for me. I continually adjust my mono drum tracks (kick snare hat) by 3db after freezing. I’m using stereo outputs from the drum synth but processing them as mono, hence the 3db change. My other three drum outputs are stereo (toms ride crash) and after adjusting them along with the kit (after freezing), I progressively raise their volume the more I listen.

I'm now guessing if I process them as stereo (interleave) they may not change volume. Creates a bit of a pickle for me . I prefer my kick/snare/hat as point sources instead of stereo as I find they cut through a mix better. Toms are usually easy to handle in a stereo mixed output unless I want to use DAW processing instead of vst's internal stuff. Then I break each out individually but with 5 toms, thats a lot of faders on screen. It’s a tradeoff.. The ride is being supplied only as a stereo source so it has it's own stereo out and finally, all the crash cymbals spread in stereo as were the toms.

So to solve this I really need a way of creating a combination of mono stereo outputs from the drums or for the present of course I could use all mono (dual mono to handle the stereo tracks but it's so......analog! ?

1 hour ago, Will_Kaydo said:

I believe Cakewalk dont use Silverlight anymore as it has been discontinued in 2011/12? due to the poor restrictions Microsoft brought? Anyway . . . 

Well, then I guess the problem is with screensets? Have you tried saving your screensets with a workspace. 

I have 3 different workspaces (with each different layout) running on the same template. So "MAYBE" the screensets are runned with workspaces too? 

That's a bit confusing to me... I thought the whole multidock/windowing environment was all silverlight???

I don't use workspaces at all as I find them too volatile for me. Not sure how this issue would relate to screensets. I'm not changing screensets in this process and my screensets are all, always unlocked.

57 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

I believe it's in the first Video attached. ?

In all fairness: I believe why I don't have a problem with this - it's because of my default template and workplace? I constantly make changes to them and save it internally and externally, but this works without any of the issues you're bringing to light. 

My template and workspace are saved with floating windows (obviously not visible or docked in the multidock and with only the browser, synth rack and inspector as floating) so I guess it reads them as "temporary" docked windows in the videos? 

Not sure I understand.

I leave workspaces disabled. I use screensets, but not workspaces or mix recall. Nor arrangements...

This is not recent. It has been this way since it's inception with silverlight

 You missed an important step I believe. Close the synth rack before saving?

Another thought just occurred to me. I continually use alt-9 shortcut to open synth rack.

24 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

This obeys all my commands this side. If I undock the synth or browser and drag it to where I want to to be, it stays there until I move it. Irrespective if I close the project and reopen later. 

Cakewalk and its gremlins. 

Did you try closing the synth rack, saving again, close and re-open the song.

Then open the synth rack. Where is it?

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

I think I get it: you save and exit with your windows arranged a certain way (undocked) and when you come back and reopen the project, they are back in the dock. Like there's a phantom screenset being applied.

Yes, zooming in Cakewalk has improved, especially with my favorite command, the one that fits the project horizontally without expanding track height. How I would love to have that in the Piano Roll. But it's still touchier than in most programs, it just seems fidgety, like I can't keep it centered. Improved, but still fidgety.

I think the matter of vertical real estate, with lanes opened and closed, will get better under my control if I can manage to learn the keystrokes and so forth to close all lanes and the like. My poor brain can only seem to handle learning a few keystrokes at a time, so it's been slow.

Pretty much. If I leave the synth rack undocked and visible, it's status is saved. If I undock it and place it where I wish it to appear, then close the synth rack and save the song. Re-opening the song and then opening the synth rack finds me seeing it appear docked in the Browser pane. It stays undocked if I open and close it during that session, but once I close the song with the synth rack closed, the problem repeats.

3 hours ago, SVSX said:

How big is the difference?

Seems to be 2-3db. Each synth varies. Obviously, most don’t. So far it seems the most common (and most difficult to deal with) are drum synths. Session Drummer, Addictive Drums (1&2), and Superior Drummer 3 all show this.

Another I am certain of is old, Vsampler3. It shifts ~2db

I sometimes feel as if it’s me, but making records of volume (read via peaks) before and after freeze shows the reality.

It is so annoying and the devices showing this each respond differently. What causes this? Not all suffer from this.

I wonder if I'll see a solution in my lifetime. Most I've gotten used to and remember how to re-adjust each, but some?

Right now I’m struggling with learning this with Superior Drummer 3 and hating it. I don’t think this is true, but it feels like each output varies differently? I’m shocked if that’s true but I've been too miffed to log the values yet. Just using ear...

I 5ink I didn’t explain well.

the hardware outputs of the console view. Randomly, change their width from narrow where I leave them to full width.

I have no issues with the docking for those who want it. My point here being that it doesn't always remember it's saved state.

I was unhappy when silverlight was added as well, but my issues with that was (and is) related to the myriad of display/zoom issues which (for me) have still not been satisfactorily repaired. I know many are more in need of the benefits(?) of Lanes over Layers. As soon as Lanes are involved in my view I suffer the redundant image of the promoted clips as well as the zoom nver following my lasso selected area. In the days before silverlight, it worked fine.  I waste more time fidgeting with zooms than I do most other work.

17 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

Ha, I, too experience the mysteriously widening hardware outputs, which I've always chalked up to me forgetting to narrow them before I save my custom templates. Maybe not.

As you point out, the bakerzoids can't fix anything unless they know it's broken. They also need a set of steps to reproduce the issue, so keep an eye on it and see if you can figure out what else you're doing in the program right before they re-expand. It could be something like running Track Manager or doing an audio bounce or whatever.

As for the second, the only way I can seem to keep things float-y, Synth Rack, Mötleydöck, Inspector, whatever, is when I have them on a second monitor. It's hopeless on my laptop, as getting them anywhere near a docking hotspot will result in the blue rectangle of dockery.

Exactly why I haven’t posted this much.

I can't find a recipe for the narrow hardware out situation. I've tried for years but see no repeated action as cause.

Now the docked/undocked status remains as long as I keep it open. Closing it, saving the piece, closing the piece, and re-opening always seems to re-dock it. 

This is just getting so old....

Items that I have tended to be patient about. It seems they don't get solved that way any more than the items I'm very outspoken on... So Here is a few things I run into for years!

Why do some structures such as the width of the hardware outputs in console and the synth rack seem to lose their assigned status?

I am constantly resizing the hardware outputs back to narrow. I never change that, but it changes...

The synth rack... I always keep it fairly wide and floating yet it constantly, randomly gets itself moved back into the Browser (docked).

Is there some hidden keys I might be accidentally hitting that causes this? I haven't found any though I've looked.

...or are the gremlins simply busy having fun keeping me annoyed?

On 1/21/2020 at 7:28 PM, William Higgs said:

When I record a bass midi track the notes are getting recorded twice, that is there are two notes superimposed on each other when there should be just one.

I've been trying to figure it out, but so far no luck.

Any help/suggestions sure would be appreciated.

Thanks

Interesting.

As a longtime MIDI user, I’m very familiar with this type of issue and don't often have such a problem.

But as it happens, I've experienced this a couple of times now since the EA.

I'm still examining the situation in case I overlooked something but....

5 hours ago, scook said:

It's covered in the documentation.

Download the pdf if you have not already.

Thanks scook.

Got it and found it. Too bad I don't like this system.

I prefer the way AD2 handles it simply with a sample of each cymbal choked! Much cleaner for my eyes but I unhappily, understand their logic.

Sometimes it surprises me the things I think are obvious and missing...

Not only are there no Ride Bell Tips, but NO CYMBAL CHOKES? How can this be? Am I overlooking some special way that SupD3 handles such?

So far?

No differences between floating vs. docked in multidock. Same beahavior.

Some additional stuff?

I notice that in the process of using snap enable/disable while PRV is open and both begin ON.

Clicking on PRV snap toggle (grid icon)

Different results such as enabled, but no value set (grayed out)? Sometimes value still set, but grayed out?

Sometimes clicking on value enables it? Other times it seems a right click is needed?

What's going on? This is not new. I have simply lived with it up until now as I question.

Maybe I need a better grasp of what each of these functions do such as clicking vs. rt-click on snap value

Am I misremembering a default change that I over ride? I have always used N for snap but something in the back of my mind keeps itching at me saying this got changed somewhat recently? Is something half-bound or...

...and why does my grid disappear when I disable snap? Yes, I have it set for grid to follow snap, but that is value, not grid on/off?

58 minutes ago, bitflipper said:

My grid's always visible whether snap is enabled or not. Is there more than one way to toggle it? I always click on the snap unit button to turn it off and on. 

I don't really care whether the TV and PRV snap settings are linked, because I don't actually ever use grid snap in the track view, only in the PRV. That's just me, though.

 

OK. That’s a biggie!

When snap is finally fully disabled, my 16th note grid (typical) disappears.

Note I say fully disabled. Turning off PRV's snap stops it's over-ride and PRV is then snapping to global. So they must both be off too see this. I’m guessing this relates to the grid follows snap?

17 hours ago, David Baay said:

In the distant past, the PRV would sometimes get in odd states depending on where it was opened - .i.e. docked, undocked but not floating, or floated. You might try playing with that. Also I'd be curious whether this is all projects or just your current one. 

Thanks David...

That's an interesting thought. I do use PRV in what is probably a less common display. Floating, not quite full screen.

I'll experiment a bit...

6 hours ago, chimkin2 said:

Exactly my point...why not just decouple them it would be more logical I think ? At least give us an option to have them linked or not ☺️

Or simply adding a master toggle with keybinding that enable/disables both simultaneously as I expected the global to do!

...and why must the grid disappear when snap is disabled? Very uncomfortable for me as I use the grid as guidelines even when not snapping!

2 hours ago, scook said:

It does just like @David Baay described above

IOW, when global snap is disabled (default keyboard shortcut "N" to toggle), snap is disabled in the PRV regardless of the PRV snap settings.

If the shortcut does not work, check for a custom binding.

There is the problem. That is what I expected and remembered, but right now the keyboard shortcut toggles global but leaves PRV snap on!

Go figure?

On 8/18/2021 at 6:58 AM, scook said:

There is no "Track View Snap Setting."

There is a global snap setting which may be overridden in the PRV.

There is the crux.

For me. If I'm working in PRV and use the global toggle, it leaves PRV snap enabled. Shouldn’t it be when global is off, all (global?) is off including PRV snap.

I won't launch a tirade  though I gotta say this one has been a noodge for a long time.

It was great the offer separate snap settings for TV vs. PRV, but shouldn't the snap enable button toggle BOTH (as it seems is needed)?

If I'm trying to disable snap while in PRV, the snap command turns off TV's snap but not PRV's snap which seems only to respond to mouse clicks separately!

If I simply disable the PRV's snap, the program defaults back to the TV's snap instead of off!

Please.... Little pains get annoying with time.

Or am I missing something? Has this been dealt with in some other way?

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

Actually, I generally feel the same way, and typically leave  'Always Echo' disabled. The main reason in my case is that I often leave Local Control enabled on my keyboard synth to eliminate the MIDI round-trip latency and get the best possible response when just playing and recording solo piano and not working with any other synths which is the way most of my projects start out. Obviously I don't want the MIDI track in my default template echoing automatically in that case.

But when working in a project with multiple synth tracks, and wanting to have the most transparent experience with performing on a controller while switching tracks in the PRV, I would think 'Always Echo' is the way to go. 

I see your point, but adding the button would be more to my taste. We all have our work model preferences. Work arounds when needed, but I prefer.........

I guess you haven’t run into the things I have. I only wish to transmit when I wish, not when I happen to have as current selection

4 hours ago, David Baay said:

For the PRV, doesn't 'Always Echo Current MIDI Track' address the need in the most common case that you just want to be able to play the instrument on the track you're currently editing?

It would if I simply wanted it on all the time...

2 hours ago, Promidi said:

Until the Bakers add this, maybe these workarounds might help.

Create a keyboard shortcut to Input Echo

Or

Assign "Input Echo" to a button on the custom console.

Good Thought, but how do I tell it which instrument to enable when there are numerous (typical)