winkpain

Yes, please!  Chord track, or layered markers with a smart key/chord layer!

And If this could be in the works, please decouple key from meter so that key editing/transposing isn't related to meter/time signature! Mixed meter does not pre-suppose mixed key, certainly not necessarily at the same points.

Any Melodyne/CW experts out there?  I figure with the integration that this would be an appropriate place to try and sort this out...

Here's an idiosyncratic issue that has cropped up for me:

I have a project that I have been working on extensively in Melodyne 5 stand-alone to get tempo, pitch, and timing info from a complex, mixed-meter traditional song (audio file recording). After having done the work of analyzing, editing, and getting notes, timing, key, and a tempo map(with its key and meter info as well) where I want them in Melodyne, I have exported them as a MIDI file and tempo map from there. In the stand alone of Melodyne, there is an export function for Tempo Maps as well as a regular MIDI file export for notes, etc.

Melodyne stand-alone has come to be a go-to for me for this type of work, as I then have these project files and their exports available elsewhere in my workflow.

I have noticed that in order to get the exported tempo map into a Cakewalk project, I cannot simply (as I would assume) drag the MIDI file into my project and retain the tempo map info, neither can I choose "Import/MIDI..." and bring the file in successfully that way. Both these methods bring in an empty MIDI track with no tempo/meter/key info in the case of the tempo map MIDI file, or the MIDI file with the note info but neither any tempo/meter/key info. It is this info, of course, that is the crucial stuff desired from the project.

The only way I seem to be able to get this info into Cakewalk is to start with a blank slate and choose "Open" from the file menu and choose the tempo map file. In this case, CW brings in the MIDI file (and the tempo map, thankfully) into a blank project, but with no output busses added. This is odd to me, but easily remedied.

None of the above is necessarily a show stopper of course, but it certainly hampers workflow if I have a project that I have been working on already a bit and want to import this tempo and meter/key info into it.

So, is this not possible? Is that not what at least  "Import/MIDI" should do?? Why would tempo/meter/key info not be included with this action?

And, a little additional issue here that inhibits this project as well, one that has been cropping up for me lately and I mentioned in a previous post, is that once the meter/key info is in a project, there seems to be no way to globally edit the key (signature) of the project. By which I mean, if the project contains many changes of meter (time signature), it is extremely cumbersome to change the key signature as it is individually coupled with each of these meter changes (seen in the Meter/Key view), which is by no means musically necessary or appropriate. I have many meter changes and only one key for the entire song, and I would like to alter that key at will  in one go without touching the meter changes. It is not uncommon to have pieces with, say, 20-40 meter changes and only one or two key signatures throughout. That is quite a lot of work, then, to go through and change 20-40 key "changes" all individually to the same key whenever we want to try a different key of the entire piece.

So, is this decoupling of meter and key possible?? OR Is there a work-around for this that someone can clue me in to?

6 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

It is strange that it changed the key to C. Does it still do it?

Testing with a new project, and no. The key in the Insert Meter/Key box defaults to whatever was last used. So yes, once setting the desired key, that should be what remains for whatever meter changes follow.

I don't know how the C key got into my original project after having set it to D in the beginning. Perhaps a mindless mistake of mine. I then thought CW had defaulted back to key of C and got lazy, figuring I could change it (that is, them all) easily later on.  So it goes.

I do wish that key and meter could be decoupled. It is of course quite common to have many desired changes in one and not the other in a given piece, and a single edit to multiples of them would be nice. BUT that is a feature request low in the ranks even for me.

Thanks for the encouragement and lesson learned!

5 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

In the Meter/Key view, when you should set your Meter and Key at the start of the project.

Then, every time you insert a meter change, it defaults to the Meter and Key of the highlighted entry. So if you have lots of Meter and Key changes, slect one that has either the Meter or Key that you do not want to change, enter your change and the Measure.

But you must do it correctly right from the start.

Not sure if there is a way to do bulk Key changes.

But with existing entries (in Meter/Key View) you can select them one by one and edit them. It auto fills with existing values, so each entry will have the correct Meter and you can just change the Key.

The strange thing is my first insert meter/key selection, I did insert the preferred  key of the song (D major), but then all the following insert meter/key choices (where I wanted only to change the meter) defaulted to the key of C.  Assuming I could change this in one go later, I let it be. I then found myself unfortunately in this situation. Selecting the existing entries one by one is indeed all I found that I could do.

I'm surprised that I've never run into this before in all these years.

I have an irregularly mixed meter piece for which I have many changes (over 50) from 3/4 to 4/4, 6/4, etc. All of those Insert meter changes ended up defaulting the Key signature to C at each change. I want to change the key signature to indicate the key of D for the entire piece for appropriate Staff view display maintaining the meter changes.

Is there a way change this for the entire piece in one go without effecting all the desired meter changes?  All I can tell is to go in and edit each one individually. Must a meter change be coupled with a key change?

30 minutes ago, John Maar said:

On the standalone version (I didn't load Studio One to test the VST):

File | Preferences | User Interface | Look

I changed it from Default to High Contrast 1. Much easier to see. High Contrast 2 grays things out a bit. I prefer 1. The Dimmed setting is also too light for me.

Ah! Well, that makes it   j u s t   a  s m i d g e   better. No real effect on the grid lines themselves, but the slight contrast helps. I'll take it. (and the adjustment in the stand-alone does indeed effect the VST!)

Thanks.

Does anyone know a way of being able to change at least the contrast on the grid lines in Melodyne??

There seems to be nothing on doing so out there anywhere, so I'm assuming "no", but I figured I'd finally ask here.

They are next to bloody invisible on my system.

The problem seems to appear for me at a particular indeterminate zoom level and/or PRV screen/scroll position.

Happy to see it's getting worked on!

On 11/20/2020 at 11:46 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

This was a limitation for the bypass automation in the Prochannel. It would only work with realtime bounce.
I've redesigned it to be independent of playback speed for a subsequent update.

Someday, Noel , we're all going to take you lunch! ?

2 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

 Export/Bounce to Tracks with Fast Bounce disabled should work though. You can try an audible bounce if you want to check it while it goes.

This is true! I thought I had tried unchecking fast bounce before. But yes, this works for bouncing and exporting.

Well, it's a work-around when using ProCh automation but a little time consuming on large projects, and still doesn't work on freezing tracks (which was the main desired function that got me to notice this issue)

Any idea why a myriad of automation on a plethora of plug-ins (I know, not all) can work with Fast Bounce, but the most basic use of them on ProCh modules will not? Is there something inherent in ProChannel that prohibits Fast Bounce??

7 minutes ago, Wookiee said:

OK I was interested to know if it plays back correctly, have you experimented with freezing the track and then exporting it?  Just so you can get a result.

Yes, I have. Read above. Freezing, bouncing, exporting. I've tried it all.

@Wookiee and @Jonathan Sasor,

Exactly. It doesn't matter whether jumps (dotted envelope) or linear/curves (solid) are used. It plays back with the envelopes affecting the modules, but it does not bounce that way.

1 minute ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

@winkpain I can see what you mean in your project. Looks like SONAR Platinum behaves the same, so this isn't a recent thing, but we'll investigate. Weirdly enough, I was testing with the Concrete Limiter, if I add that with an envelope for the threshold to the track, that still renders correctly even though the other modules don't. 

@Jonathan Sasor  So you're saying that what I am noticing is the same for you? In my test project, for instance?

11 minutes ago, Wookiee said:

@winkpain So all you are attempting to apply is 100% dry Reverb.

You do realise that the Reverb is set to 100% dry 0% wet meaning that you will only hear the dry signal no reverb will be applied.

The Console, Compressor and EQ are all disabled.

Look at the envelopes (open up the automation lanes).

The track starts with everything being disabled, then plays through and the envelopes enable the effects, then off again. This is the automation that I am talking about. It plays back, but does not then get committed when bouncing.

Just now, Wookiee said:

@winkpain I just download your Test project above the thing that hits me immediately is that the whole Pro Channel is not enabled or turned on.

Breverb 2 is Enabled in the Pro Channel itself, but with out the PC being enabled nothing will be applied.

That's because I had saved it after attempting the freeze the track . Sorry . See above. Try this one.

ProCh Export TEST.cwp

Sorry @Jonathan Sasor (not Jason!)

the project file I sent was in the frozen state. So, if I unfreeze it and with the ProCh global turned ON and then either freeze or bounce to track or export, nothing commits.

2 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

Is it specific to any particular module(s)? Also if you try a simple test automating something in a new project, does that render normally? 

I did just that! And yes, the problem still persists, and persists in whatever module I've tried it on.

Here is my sample project with envelopes on three modules, for example.

All these modulations playback but will not commit when bouncing/exporting  as mentioned.

ProCh Export TEST.cwp

36 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

Is it possible you're missing something in the export/bounce options? When I try it on my end, the automation renders correctly when doing a bounce or export. Maybe post a screenshot of the Export Audio dialog?

Thank you, Jason, but I of course checked all that in the beginning. If there is something there that somehow applies only to ProCh. FX during export, tho, I'm not aware of it.

But, to reiterate, it's only ProCh automations that don't get committed in any of the above mentioned operations, not just exporting (i.e. freezing or bouncing the tracks). And automations/envelopes on any non-ProCh effects get applied as expected in all cases.

...Any ideas on this??

19 hours ago, scook said:

Using the default settings, specifically a per-project audio folder and Always Copy Imported Audio Files, all the audio (and possibly more) used in the project is in the project's audio folder.

To get a list of the files, open a command window in the project's audio folder and use the OS's Dir command to list its content, redirecting the output to a file like this

dir > filelist.txt

And this is a good idea to get it into a text file, which is ultimately all I currently need. I'm not sharing the project or the files. I just need to deliver a list to a collaborator.

Many thanks, as alwars!

19 hours ago, Base 57 said:

At the top of the app under "Project" the first selection is "Audio Files".  I don't know if that will help anymore than what you are already doing.

Wow! That's exactly it! It's been staring me in the face all these years and I've never noticed it.

Thanks so much!

2 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

As far as I know, that is the only way from inside the project.

Another tool is the Cakewalk Audio Finder, which you can access from the global Utilities menu as "CWAF Tool."

Thank you! Yes, I forgot to mention that I know the CWAF tool, but this is (correct me if I'm wrong) a global audio finder tool, taking some time to do a system-wide search and then showing all files and all projects and their associations requiring quite a bit more work than just displaying all used files in the current project only in a readable list. Even when choosing the current project in the CWAF tool after it spends the time to do its search, it only sort of highlights the files by putting them at the top of a big list. If you then "Save report" , the report still contains the massive list of all files. 

I am looking just for a simple list of used files in the current project only that I can export in some way to be available as a list for remote collaborators who share libraries. Even if I could expand the window from Associated Audio Files and do a screen capture of the full list, this would be better than nothing!  Why is this window (or any file list window for that matter) un-sizeable anyway??  I know this is pointless to ask because there's likely no way to change it, and I could likely do this with the CWAF window,  but just saying....

I am finding that, when using automation for ProChannel FX parameters, that none of these automated controls have any effect when doing any of the things one would do to commit them to the project, i.e. none of the following:

• freezing the track
• bouncing to track
• exporting the track
• mixdown of the entire project

The automations do however playback as expected before attempting to commit them to a mixdown, but It's as if the automation is being completely ignored during the mixdown. (I of course have Automation Read enabled.)

In testing I find that simply applying the same controls statically applied (without automation) will get committed with a mixdown as intended. AND if I simply copy and paste these same automations into similar FX controls in the FX bin, for example, these also behave as expected in mixdown.

What could be preventing only these ProCh parameters (any that I have tried) from automating in mixdown??

Is there a quick/easy way to view and then export this for an entire project?

I only know of doing a Select all (Ctrl-A) and then choosing Associated Audio Files (Shift-K). This brings up a window listing all the said files, but the window is un-sizeable , so therefor very awkward to view a long list of long file paths/names. AND it allows no way to even copy or export this list.

Is there some other way??