chris.r

I didn't think anybody posted the elementary key to the joy yet

Ok so I went through all windows sound settings that I have found relevant (not being sure if the settings made in windows have any influences on how the gear is working in Cakewalk at all but apparently it has, at least in WASAPI mode) and checked/unchecked every possible setting that could make a sense to me. Rebooted Windows and Cakewalk and suddenly both devices appeared in the input drivers (although I could check both only in exclusive mode, in shared mode checking one of them automatically disabled the other-which is strange to me as I would expect it to work the other way). Now I'm not sure which exactly setting made it happen, but I'm thinking of two: one is that I've found that the Shure has separate settings for driver bit depth for playback and recording in (windows) shared mode and they was set differently ie. 16-bit for playback and 24-bit for recording, and secondly that I had input devices disabled in windows sound settings, so I enabled them. And now I have both devices recording and playing back simultaneously but I had to raise the latency way above 10ms. Anything below 500 samples is prone to cause dropouts. The other caveat is that to be able to record from Shure in WASAPI mode I had to go to microphone privacy settings in windows and set it to Allow to use microphone on this computer, which was not needed at all in WDM mode. And I don't like it but, well... Still don't know where/how do I check/set if my Shure MV5 is recording with 16 or 24-bit depth. Changes in windows settings seem to not make any difference. And in Cakewalk I can't find anything beside record bit depth in preferences>file>audio data but it doesn't make me sure that the Shure mic is actually working in 24-bit record mode. There is Audio driver bit depth setting in Driver Settings but I can set it only to 16-bit. Anyone could tell me what is the Audio driver bit depth setting exactly? One possibility is that it won't record in 24-bit at all because the ART driver is 16-bit only, idk.

Yes I tried both, shared and exclusive modes but there is just 'none' in the Input Drivers in Cakewalk preferences. If I could know what cause that, because both appear in the inputs in WDM/KS mode and actually work but giving me corrupted audio playback from whichever I set as the non-record/playback timing master, the other then plays fine. There might be some conflict at the driver level. That's no problem, our takes will be handled manually later anyway.

@msmcleod Thanks Mark, the usb mic is actually belonging to my friend, I ordered it for him so he could record his vocal and guitar on the phone at home. Works a breeze for that. But I'm allowed to use it for a while. I could live with that but the problem is that if I set ART as the timing master I'm getting corrupted audio from Shure, and if I set Shure as the master I'm getting corrupted audio from ART. The corrupted audio sounds like it's chopped in slices and out of sync with many dropouts. If I could iron that out I'd be at home but have no idea where to look further in settings. Also, as them being WDM drivers now, do Windows sound settings have any influence on how they work in Cakewalk? Or are the settings solely on Cakewalk's side? Another question, how do I recognize if Shure is working in 16-bit or 24-bit mode, in Cakewalk? I can only see settings for record bit depth. Is there a way to set that in Cakewalk the way I like? The last thing I'd like to do is to install anything in addition like Asio4All or AsioLink. The system is clean now and I'd wish to keep it that way and avoid installing any unnecessary stuff that might puzzle it. indeed, sounds very close to SM58 here but less sibilant and a bit more detailed because it's condensed, but it's definitely got that Shure signature sound

Hi John, thanks for stopping by. I see what you say, there's nothing to disagree. To make a good recording I need a good interface with good preamps and drivers etc. Well I have one on my list but I need time before I can invest in it, it's not gonna happen now. But it's not like I'm not doing anything in that regard. As you may not remember, we had already a 'discussion' in the past regarding upgrading my old 32-bit laptop and desktop for a new 64-bit ones, about a year or two ago, when I asked for some advice and mentioned I'm still in 32-bit. Now I finally made it into 64-bit so yes, there is some progress it just takes time. I'll take a chance on a good audio interface when the right time come but for now I need some advice with what I have. The thing is, the ART tube preamp I have is already a really nice piece of hardware and sounds very good, definitely better than what my basic needs are right now. Even if I would change it to one from say Focusrite or Steinberg, I don't see much how it could upgrade the audio quality really, it just sounds very good as is. And as I said above, I'm using Ploytec ASIO driver which turns it into an excellent ASIO interface. Driver-wise it's brilliant, very stable, really low latency, cpu efficient, can you say the same about your Focusrite or whatever interface you got there? Really hard to say what to ask for as an upgrade, maybe investing in one of the RME boxes but that's alot money and yes, in the future I may do it but don't have the need nor money for the time being. Anyway, on it's own the ART+ploytec combo works excellent and I'm very happy with it. It just gives me the job done good and no problems whatsoever. Also the USB mic Shure MV5 is a little brilliant idea in a small piece of gear. It sounds great as is really joy to work with. So yes, on it's own it's great and works flawlessly. The only problem I have is if it's possible to make those two devices, the ART interface and the Shure usb-mic, work together in Cakewalk simultaneously. If anyone have any experience in working with similar combo - an ASIO interface+USB mic (with built-in headphone output) - or have some idea about any settings I could use to make them work both at once. After decades working with MIDI I'm slowly stepping into audio territory so I may be missing a lot of knowledge on how to setup Cakewalk for some specific audio job. Hopefully someone step in and shine some light. And hey, I just finished recording a couple songs with my 12 years old son in my bedroom, literally, using Sony NC31E plugs and tracking onto my phone Sony Xperia. Yes, the noise cancelling little plugs that came with my phone, no dedicated mic, no audio interface, no pc. The studio I got the order for those songs was very happy with the results. The songs themselves are going to be featured in some youtube kids channel. Man, was it great experience. The Shure MV5 will be an improvement, mainly in that it sounds less sibilant so the audio engineer will have less work with our audio takes. ?

This

I can't believe I missed this giveaway !!!! ????

I have USB interface from ART (dual tube pre) that uses class compliant driver but I'm using the audio driver from Ploytec to convert it into high quality ASIO driver. Works excellent. I've bought an USB mic Shure MV5 it's class compliant too and it's 24bit (and 16bit, the ART is 16bit only), it also has it's own headphone output. I'm trying to connect both so I can either record simultaneously from two devices or playback audio through both at the same time, but it's not working. Since ASIO mode allows only for single device I had to switch to WDM because only in WDM mode I could see both devices in input drivers, in WASABI mode there was nothing in the inputs at all. Now, if I try to play some audio through both devices, I can get fine output only from one of them, the one that I put as the timing master, the other one is giving me corrupted audio. Is there a way to make them both work simultaneously or am I asking for too much?

And now you have to donate some charity.

Got the confirmation.. can't process the live input in Elements, only in Wavelab Pro. Thanks guys for your input.

OK I've got the answer, well partially. Had to create an account on the Steiberg forum. They have pointed me to where is the live input in wavelab. But I can't find it in my version and just realize I have the Elements. That might be the problem. Still waiting for a confirmation there, or here maybe...

Might be some additional buffers get involved for higher efficiency. This is what I'm trying to figure out but can't run a synth in Wavelab so the only way would be to pass audio through an effect. Let me try harder .

Is there a way to send live input through a plugin in realtime in Wavelab? What would be the settings? I can make it to hear the live input but cannot send it to process through a plugin in realtime. Wondering if that's ever possible. I know it's a Cakewalk forum but it's regarding testing both engines with a plugin. Hope someone chime in. Thx

There is a problem in this case. After moving the selected portion of the envelope you loose the selection. It's not a biggie if snap to grid is on, but I often like to select a syllable or breath with snap to grid off for smooth selection, then if I'd need to correct the same region I actually have to select a few times around. And of course the waveform is dimmed under the envelope after setting edit filter to clip gain, like I said not a biggie but sometimes it's not about working with the envelope, more often it's just visually inspecting the waveforms by listening and watching for inconsistencies in the take. Then we could quickly select a portion and ctrl+drag it up or down by visually estimating the amount needed. I realize it's a feature request .

Agree. Still, would be shame missing the opportunity for a super quick workflow, since we already can move the envelope in clip edit with ctrl+drag.

That's because I have Maximize Waveform selected... thanks @winkpain! Jonathan, can we have the same you do on your video but instead of moving the whole envelope, can we make a small clip selection and then ctrl+drag the clip gain of just that selection? I mean, if there's nothing selected, the whole envelope will be moved, but when I select a portion of the clip I'd love to change only that portion of clip gain instead of the whole envelope.

Ah yes, thanks! I have Maximize Waveform, of course

Perfect, except I asked if we can do: without extra clicking the mouse wheel to bring up the HUD without extra selecting clip gain yes, make a click-drag selection yes, changing clip gain but just the selected portion (for now we can only move the whole envelope at once), supposedly using ctrl+drag (while keeping edit filter for clips) That's just two moves altogether without even changing the edit filter. Say you're working with focus on clips (to keep the waveforms perfectly visible) and want to make quick gain adjustments just for short areas, let's assume to lower the breaths of a vocal take. Would be great to have it done with just selecting the breath waveform and ctrl+drag only the selection, no additional clicking needed. We can change the whole envelope with ctrl+drag already, but I'm missing the ability to affect only a selected clip portion. I guess that's a feature request. Also at the end of your video, I see you don't loose your selection. Can you then move the same selected portion of the envelope second time? For me, the second time I'm moving the whole envelope.

Hmm, ctrl+clicking didn't work for me, it did select/unselect the clip though but... ctrl+drag vertically did work once I make sure that I'm clicking in the lower half of the clip. It did move the whole clip gain though and not just the selected portion. What I've managed to find out it that when I switch Edit Filter to Clip Automation>Gain then I can move now just the selected portion of clip gain with a single drag, but... after that I'm loosing the selection and have to establish it again and again, if I want to make any corrections to it. And it was difficult to find the right spot where to grab the envelope if the envelope is really low. But the other problem is that switching Edit Filter to Clip Gain makes the waveform dimmed. It would be great if, when focus is on Clips, ctrl+drag vertically moves just the selected portion of the envelope if there is any selection, or the whole envelope if no selection.

Is there a way to quickly select a portion of the wave file and simply pull up or down the clip gain only for the selected portion without the extra steps of creating the nodes, changing tools etc?

You mean subscription...? (Off to buy bigger SSD disks!)

Exactly! I was trying to dig deeper into settings just to see if I didn't miss anything but the settings are the same for both, same driver same file with only Lurssen on it. So I decided to make a few more tests and here are the results: Cakewalk 128 - total no go (instant dropout stopped audio engine code 1) Cakewalk 256 - crackles, cpu utilisation (as per windows task manager) 42% from Cakewalk Performance module: audio processing 23% (max 89), engine load 90-120% average (max 158), late buffers: over 2000 after the whole song Cakewalk 512 - plays fine, cpu utilisation 27% in task manager Cakewalk performance shows: audio processing 12% (max 46), engine load around 45-60% (max 82), no late buffers Wavelab same file, only Lurssen: 128 - cpu utilisation 14% (without Lurssen 9%) from the task manager - plays smooth with balanced load across cores Now the same file in standalone Lurssen: 128 - heavy crackle, totally unusable sound, cpu utilisation 31% taskman 256 - light crackling, cpu 36% 512 - plays fine, cpu 24%

OMG! @ensconced yes, I just installed everything latest versions... Thank you! I'm definitely gonna check out 1.0.3

Ok checked one more thing. In addition to what I said above I thought to check if plugin balancing is enabled in cakewalk and indeed on the desktop pc it was off, must have been switched off with an update at some point probably as I usually like to have it on. But on my laptop balancing is on and I have to raise buffers to 512 so yes, wavelab makes it somehow to play smoothly at 128.

So you made me curious and I've been through some tests. The thing started with that on my laptop at latency 128 just a single empty track with Lurssen and I can't even start the Play head to move, it just stops immediately. In standalone Lurssen I can make it start to playback a file at 128 but I get dropouts and need to raise the buffers at least 256. What's interesting I checked in Wavelab and it didn't have any problem playing a wav file with Lurssen at 128...! That was on my laptop 4 cores @ 3.20 Ghz. Now I have another pc 8 cores @ 4GHz and there I was able to play a single audio track in Cakewalk at 128 but I noticed the first core hard sweating at average 50-70% often crossing 99% and collecting tons of late buffers, adding a second cpu demanding plugin is a dropout. In standalone Lurssen it was similar with the difference that it put the sixth core into spin instead first and no spikes. Then I checked with Wavelab, Ableton lite and Mixbus and they all could play easily at 128 without a sweat, what they do is they share the load across the cores and all stay low. Hope that helps.