Amberwolf

If you don't mind the extra work (which can be fun if you're open to learning new ways of making up music you might not have tried), you can also use sample packs of vocalists to build the sounds you need from. Some are available as instruments to sing them, like the ones from 8Dio in the Seven Solo Voices pack I'd love to get someday, but there are also individual sample packs that can be used to splice together tracks, pitch shifting and time-stretching and fading bits as needed. This is how I have been building my more recent tracks, such as Behind You Lie Many Unseen which uses Elven from Ghosthack's Shymer collection, and The Beaten Dog which uses bits of spoken English phrases to create the lyrics. These are experiments, and I'm no expert at any of this, so I'm sure anyone that wanted to really do it could do a better job than me, but they're perfectly listenable music even as imperfect as they are. 😊 Anyway, the point is that if you can't get the original tracks back, and like me can't get a live singer to do what you want, you can still make them (and new songs!) with vocals that still sound good.

04-27-25: 042425 000001 200063t -- timing and mix changes, and glitch fixes. The Elven rock harder than before, in the last minute. https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/behind-you-lie-many-unseen

This song was built from various sample packs, recorded sounds, etc. Almost none of the pieces are used wiht any other pieces of the same 'kits" or "stems" they were intended to be. Some are "loops" of patterns of sound, most are just individiual sound samples. I used mostly spoken phrases from Veela's Siren bundle for the vocal sounds and words. The sounds were from various bundles I don't recal with much certainty, but the sax bits are from a Basement Freaks bundle called Funk Legends in the Miles subfolder. I stretched or squshed them in time to fit the beat of the song, and pitch shifted some of them for variations in ones used more than once, as well as chopping them up into syllables and whatnot. (while I'm using existing recordings, it's not really much different in principle from playing a keyboard that uses samples of sounds to make it's instruments (which very very many of them do), except it is a bit more like creating that instrument in the first place (editing the samples for playback). Or like paying an artist to record things for you that you then edit down into a recording....the main difference being that htese are recorded by such artists so that any other artist that wants to (and buys them) can create whatever they want with them, instead of being recorded to my specifications. ) I had to cut and composite most of the vocal phrases from the ones available in that bundle to get the words I wanted, and pitch shift or time expand or compress individual syllables as needed to fit the music, and also to create expressiveness that isn't there in the original phrases. For instance, "My people" is just one phrase, said rather dully, and I needed it to be more emotional, perhaps wistful or sad when the dog is thinking about what happened, so I listend to the way I could say the phrase myself in different ways utnil I figured out the differences in the way I said it flat and dull vs expressed the way I wnated, and then did those things to the phrase. I ended up using the phrase twice in succession, as one might when considering something one may not really want to say out loud and have to pause after starting to, so the first is more matter of fact and the second more emotional. One phrase, had all the words I wanted, but all as one rapidly spoken phrase, and I needed it all slower and separated, so the first part was so fast that there are obvious artifacts in it after slowing it down and separating the parts enough to sound the way I wanted, and that's the "there's a reason", followed by the "i'm a shadow". These aren't in any of the other phrases, so I'm stuck with those. I found some other vocalist in a differnet bundle but had the wordes but they're not spoken, theyre sung, and they sound totally different than this vocalist anyway, so it wouldn't match. I wanted to tell the story more copmletely, but not al the words I need are in the Siren spoken section, and I don't have another source that sounded wistful or sad enough, or could be made so. So for now, this is as long as the story can be. I dont' have a specific set of words written down for it ohter than those I used, but the story of an abused dog from it's own point of view, up to it's end, is what this song is meant to be. Kind of an homage to Kirin, who while probably not beaten, was certainly starved for her first few years along with other dogs at that place, and to Loki who was probably used as a bait dog and had probable cigarette burns all over. So at some point I'll expand the song once I can either modify the existing words and phrases I have to do what I want, or find another source to replace all of them with consistent new ones with the right emotional content. (that I hopefully won't have to modify syllable by syllable!).

This was built almost entirely using Ghosthack's Shymer, Ultimate Composer Bundles 1-3, and Ultimate Cinematic Vocals, though almost none of the pieces are used wiht any other pieces of the same 'kits" or "stems" they were intended to be. As part of the experiment and learning process, I deliberately went thru Shymer's "song kits" and picked only one piece at most from each one. Some are "loops" of patterns of sound, some are just individiual sound samples. The Elvish speech comes as spoken phrases, with English versions as well, in dry (no effects) and "wet" (effects applied), but I like the sound of the elvish versions better so I use them, and I use them for how they sound rather than what they mean (unlike in Gareki where I chose them for their meanings). Later when I care what's being said and have something to say, I'll use the English ones in some other song. I did leave most of the phrases intact in their order, but I stretched or squshed them in time to fit the beat of the song, and pitch shifted some of them for variations in ones used more than once. The sung syllables in the rockin' Elven section in the last minute of hte song were individual syllables of the chants in FunctionLoops' Ethnic Voices bundle. I just picked a phrase at random, and split it up, and it turned out to work; almsot none of the syllables are in the order they were sung in. These were also time-altered and pitch shifted in some cases. Similar things were done to choose and modify the staccato strings, the cellos, the long vocalizations and elven phrases, as well as the percussion, fretless bass, etc. The only piece in there that is nearly unmodified is the pulsing bassline in part of the slow beginning and middle part of the song. So, while I'm using existing recordings, it's not really much different in principle from playing a keyboard that uses samples of sounds to make it's instruments (which very very many of them do), except it is a bit more like creating that instrument in the first place (editing the samples for playback). Or like paying an artist to record things for you that you then edit down into a recording....the main difference being that htese are recorded by such artists so that any other artist that wants to (and buys them) can create whatever they want with them, instead of being recorded to my specifications.

Now if I can just get someone to take them, especially the piano.... (hopefully someone from one of the places I "know", like this, will want them, as I'd rather do that than complete unknowns like craigslist / etc).

This clown (me) makes fun *with* all this crap.

I can't tell any distortion from the rest of the audio; it's all heavily distorted to my ears; I could only listen to a few seconds around the 15 mark because it is way too much for me to take (I'm autistic and the rapid pounding distorted noise like that is terrifying to me). But if you are getting distortion, the usually problem is input levels that are too high. If your M-Audio is like m Fast Track Duo, it has a clipping light (red) on each channel by the input level knob, and is green when there's signal but no clipping. Any red light seen means there can be distortion in the resulting audio. It can also be levels within the tracks or busses that are too high in total. If you get it primarily when recording along with other existing tracks, and if you mute the other tracks and it goes away, you just have your track levels too high and theere's just too much total audio power for the bus(es) being fed to the master. You'd need to turn all the track outputs down proportionally, which is easy to do in Offset mode (O on my keyboard in my ancient SONAR), then select all the volume controls in a quick group, and decrease them all by however much you need to until the problem goes away. When it is not levels that are too high, it is usually driver latency / buffering. I use the ASIO driver from AVID (since the older M-Audio driver doesn't work in Win10 but the Avid package 1.0.4 one does), and can get as low as 7.3ms using 44100 sample rate and 320sample buffer size in the Fasttrack ASIO control panel, even while running a few dozen FX and multiple instances of Z3TA2+ and other synths, and still record stereo (or dual-mono) audio with input monitoring thru the track and bus FX. The ancient (decade old+) laptop I use is the Lenovo ideapad 300 with only 16gb ram and a spinny HDD (not ssd, though i have one for backups I don't record to it). If you have any other ASIO drivers on the system (like ASIO4All, Steinberg ASIO, etc), they may cause problems and not let you use your real ASIO driver (or cause it to behave incorrectly), so I'd remove all of those and scrub the system of them if you can.

Since you're not using Sonar or Next (nest?), what program are you using? What does it's manual say those codes mean? (we can't look it up because you didn't tell us which program, etc). What audio interface are you using? What driver are you using to run the audio interface? Which driver mode are you using? What latency is the program set to use with that driver? What resolution and bit depth are you recording and playing back at? What effects, if any, are you using on the tracks, in the project, etc? Are you doing input monitoring within the program to hear the recording realtime? Are you playing back other tracks while recording? Do they have effects on them? Do you have any high latency plugins requiring a lot of CPU? Etc.

Available for local pickup in Metrocenter area of Phoenix, AZ, USA. Free to good home, though I'll accept any money thrown my way for them. Piano is mostly tuned, but after you move it, it will need retuning. Comes with an unused tuning kit; there are free phone apps you can use to help you tune it. It's a Kimball 404P #T26204 probably from the late 1970s: Amberwolf's Music Studio Technical Stuff Piano is very heavy, over 400lbs, bring at least two strong people to get it into your large transportation device, or all your stubbornness; I won't really be able to help much. (I originally got it here by myself in a bicycle trailer built / rebuilt for the purpose, but I wouldn't recommend it The SB Cruiser : Amberwolf's 2WD Heavy Cargo Trike & Dog Carrier ). Upright electronic organ is much lighter, don't know the weight but one person can move it relatively easily. It has MIDI output, so can be used to control synths, etc on a computer or other MIDI capable hardware. I've not used the organ since getting back here into the house after the fire (it was a replacement for stuff lost in that fire so I could keep playing music). The piano I very rarely use and it's large and I could use the space for a workbench in my bedroom to work on wolfy-robot-project stuff instead. Piano when hauled home (hasn't changed since then, except for a bit of toothmark work on hte left front leg by either Peebs or the Schmoo when they were puppies, but that doesn't affect it's sound or structure. The organ is presently behind my brother's art stuff in the storage room, so I can't access it to get better pics. This shows the console and keys, the stuff on top is not part of it (though I'll sell the Yamaha TG33 in the middle if someone really wants it; I know they don't generally go cheap). I think it's the Discovery version, don't know the specific model. These are some pics from a Reverb.com page listing for what looks like the same model

Behind You Lie Many Unseen https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/behind-you-lie-many-unseen Evolving cinematic track, 3:42 long. The Elven rock hard in the last minute. EDIT: It's grown to 4:30 long, and after they rock they get funky. 04-25-25: 042425 000001 100034n -- First public version 04-27-25: 042425 000001 200063t -- timing and mix changes, and glitch fixes. 04-28-25: 042425 000001 200075v -- replaced awkward section and fixed tuning glitch 04-30-25: 042425 000001 200104z -- tweak intro percussion 05-03-25: 042425 000001 300140F -- timing, mix, sound, vocal, etc changes to new funky section. 05-05-25: 042425 000001 300144G -- timing, mix, sound, vocal, etc changes to funky section.

Did the plugin update itself (or was it manually updated or changed) between the time it worked and the time it didn't? Did anything else on the system update itself (or was manually updated or changed) between the tiem it worked and the time it didn't?

you set each device to send on a diifferent channel, and the daw to receive on a correspondnig channel for teh orrespondnig track

Oh, also, when I've got the basics of a track laid down for a synth that gets stuck notes, I do the freeze as well. But then I clone the resulting audio track (not the midi part) to a new audio track including events and properties and effects, etc., then mute or archive the synth track. Then I can work with the rest of the project, and if I only need to do simple cutouts or volume changes on that synth's audio I can do that to the audio clip, and only unfreeze the synth to edit specific note changes, add controller data, bends, etc., then refreeze it. If I have certain edits already complete as audio edits, I can then mute the ranges of the new freeze that I've already done in the first one or that didn't change, and then mute all the ranges of the old freeze that changed in the new freeze. (or I'll even mute the MIDI clips in the ranges of the old freeze that don't change, so they don't even generate new audio). So that's one workaround for synths that can't be arsed to shut up.

For me, with synths like those made by RGC (Z3TA, etc) the problem is caused by the way the synth is designed to expect note-off events, vs the way SONAR sends them. SONAR sends note offs as regular notes with zero velocity, but some synths don't accept that as a note-off, and expect a real actual note-off message. THere are some other threads and posts about stuck notes that may have more details, but IIRC there is an option in newer versions of SONAR (and maybe CbB) that allows note offs to be sent in the other way, or maybe it was that the panic button can be set to send a note off message for every note rather than a global all-notes-off message (which some synths don't accept). If none of these things fix the issue for your synths, then you may need another way to send the note off messages or to stop the synth output. In my ancient SONAR I don't have the modern options (which is why I don't remember what they are ) , so for Z3TA note hangs, for instance, I can toggle the built-in arp on or off and back again, and it will stop all notes. But that has to be done in each instance, so I leave the UI open almost offscreen with just the arp button edge showing. (I could probably setup a remote control for that button but never tried). The thing that normally causes the stuck notes for me is that I stop playback before the end of the note on that synth. If I stop between notes, they don't get stuck.

04-22-25: 042025 000001 200049h -- added accents, emotionalized ending https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/the-beaten-dog 04-22-25: 042025 000001 200054i -- added backing sounds 04-22-25: 042025 000001 200058j -- cleanup and timing

04-21-25: 042025 000001 200042g -- extended, clarified, enhanced, filled. https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/the-beaten-dog

FWIW, there is a feature request in for this, and some discussion of possible implementations, including how an MFX might be able to do it if someone were to write one. (other than the bluecat) There is also another thread that has methods to actually do this listed (but I haven't tested them), starting on this page And there are other threads discussing it, some of which are in this search https://discuss.cakewalk.com/search/?&q=multiple midi&type=forums_topic&quick=1&search_and_or=and&search_in=titles&sortby=relevancy

04-21-25: 042025 000001 200030d -- corrected version https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/the-beaten-dog Something went wrong somewhere with the previous version, and all sorts of bits got mixed up in where they should have played, so the previous version is garbage. I should've listened to the export before uploading it. Been fixing that, new much much better version now, (I listened to the export to make sure!) you can tell what's what now.

If they did that here in Phoenix all he would've found were some little mummies, explaining why his "radio" only rattled....

New one, with lyrics (spoken word), less than a minute long. The Beaten Dog https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/the-beaten-dog Please...save me let me go this life is kinda hard why? my people...my people, they left me. Why? trust me--there's a reason: I'm a shadow... I'm free....which way do you think we should go? Not the lightest song in the world. EDIT 060925: added cover art

It would be nice if there was a screen that listed each plugin, synth, mfx, etc., along with which track or bus it's in or clip it's applied to, and which order they are in when several are in the same bin, and which preset was used (if any, and if not a list of settings values with an option to "create presets for all". That could be used to rebuild a project should it become corrupt, or to know what plugins were used in a project so they could be installed in a new system ahead of time (like you're doing) without having to reference the missing-plugin dialogs. The closest thing I know of to do this sort of thing is ProjectScope by Adam Czyk "czyky", which at least provides a list of fx used. http://forum.cakewalk.com/ProjectScope-helps-find-CWPs-and-keeps-them-organized-updated-to-Producer-Edition-m3218609.aspx?high=projectscope http://forum.cakewalk.com/ProjectScope-for-Sonar-Project-Files-CWPs-updated-to-support-new-Sonar-project-features-m3584169.aspx https://adamczyk.com/miscellaneous-files/88-projectscope-exe-for-cakewalk-project-files

If you remove the midi hardware, including all the driver software for it, from the PC's that do have midi hardware, do they then work? If not, then it isn't having hardware or not that causes the problem--it's something else. If it does work, then you'd have to find what setting in the program or tracks is different from the hardware to the no-hardware setup. The easiest way to do that is take screenshots of program settings and track settings of working vs not working, and then compare them.

Then it can't be a bus problem, because you aren't changing anything about the bus assignment or bus properties. If you would provide sufficient details we could probably help you figure out the issue.

What happens if you *don't* disable the MIDI hardware outs? What happens if you don't use Simple Instrument tracks, and just use regular separate synth and MIDI tracks?

That shouldn't matter. I have midi outs *and* use VST synths just fine. If you're having trouble only on those specific machines, something else is going on. What exactly are your complete MIDI settings for the program itself, on the machines that work, vs the machines that don't? (screenshots are best) What exactly are your complete project settings for machines that work, vs machines that don't? (screenshots are best) What exactly are your complete track (MIDI, Audio, and Synth) settings for machines that work, vs machines that don't? (screenshots are best)