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Warner

Loop Construction View not appearing (and why I'm saying goodbye to Cakewalk)

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I want to edit the groove clip: silence a few parts of the loop. When I double-click a looped audio clip, I first got the side panel with the groove clip properties. I then changed the double click behavior in Options to open the loop construction view. However, now double clicking does nothing. I closed and restarted the application but this didn't help. Double clicking another audio clip doesn't do anything, so it's not the speciifc audioclip. Any suggestions on how to resolve this?

Edited by Warner

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Posted (edited)

As no one answered this question, I'll start a conversation with myself. I am a user of Cakewalk for 20 years (estimate). Lately, through the year I use it to record my band and mix the results, usually with little issues. Every summer and Christmas vacation I finally have time to compose a few tracks in Sonar/Cakewalk by Bandlab. However, every time I find myself dealing with software issues which totally ruin my flow. The last week I wanted to try composing some orchestral stuff. I did (and encountered) the following:

  • For a rythmic pulse I found a nice percussive loop sample but wanted to mute a few hits > loop construction view did not open (see my question in previous post)
  • For orchestral instruments I used the Garritan samples for Dimension Pro: Dimension Pro produces no sound or freezes the project when other instruments are added
  • Last few days I am away from home but have brought my laptop and attached Korg nanoKEY for keys and Korg nanoKontrol2 for mixer. Playing NanoKEY when an instrument track is highlighted produces sound with an instrument a few tracks further down. Opening the instrument view in the track, opens up the instrument a few tracks down: WTF!?

Conclusion: I need a DAW that is reliable, intuitive (easy to use) and keeps me in the flow. So after investing some twenty years in Cakewalk products in time and money I have decided to say goodbye.

Question: any suggestions on alernative DAWs? I'm currently testing Bitwig, Ableton live and FL Studio

Edited by Warner

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Sorry to hear the problems are getting you down. Let us know if you decide to stick with it and troubleshoot.

- For the Loop Construction issue, try selecting the clip, and choosing Views > Loop Constuction. If the multidock doesn't come up, hit Shift+D to maximize it, and see if you have a Loop Construction tab.

- For the Dim Pro issue...I dunno right offhand. Have not seen any issue with it since the old bug with a particular drum loop that would crash SONAR. 

- For the Instrument track issue, split the track(s) and check the routing.  Others have mentioned spontaneous re-routing of MIDI I/O, but I have not encountered it myself so long as the hardware config is stable.

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+ 1 to the above. I saw this last night but was using my cell. I have never changed click behaviors, so program changes can cause issues to workflow; but as Dave mentioned you can always drill into them with the menus.

Also, since you have so much time under your belt with SONAR, my recommendation would be to choose a version of SONAR (from CCC) that suits your needs. Sure, it is not the newest, but it is static, so your workflow will never be interrupted. I use software 8-20 years old for this very reason... I know the bugs, what it can/can't do, and can get tasks done quickly in them... that is priceless.

As commiseration, last July I was in a hurry, opened CbB to do some simple recordings and got tripped by "Duplicate Track" not duplicating the track... I wanted the routing on that track so I could delete the audio, but the routing didn't duplicate. In the span of about 15 seconds, I said "Screw this" and skinned the cat differently by shift-dragging the audio from the original track to a new one and kept working the original track. I never even went back to determine why "duplicate track" didn't take. Developers (for most programs) have made the assumption that end-users have hours of free time to keep current with software updates, but that is almost never the case.

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Posted (edited)
On 12/25/2019 at 3:20 AM, Warner said:

I want to edit the groove clip: silence a few parts of the loop. When I double-click a looped audio clip, I first got the side panel with the groove clip properties. I then changed the double click behavior in Options to open the loop construction view. However, now double clicking does nothing. I closed and restarted the application but this didn't help. Double clicking another audio clip doesn't do anything, so it's not the speciifc audioclip. Any suggestions on how to resolve this?

I have never before used the Loop Construction View (long-time Cakewalk user, since MS-DOS).  However, one of my 2020 goals is to teach myself new-to-me features. So, I tried the Options > Click Behavior > etc. setting you recommended and it worked for me.

I am currently using a Workspace that has the Console on Monitor 2 (of 2). So after the click behavior change, the Loop Construction View opened up there.

Not sure if yours is a Workspace issue, but maybe try switching to a different Workspace. (If that solves the problem, I highly recommend custom Workspaces-especially since the recent improvements from when they were called "Lenses.")

ADDENDUM: Check the Views drop down menu.  If Loop Construction View is not there, choose a Workspace where it is there.

image.png.d77c9b772f5724bc6332f3893d196a34.png

11 minutes ago, mettelus said:

I have never changed click behaviors, so program changes can cause issues to workflow; but as Dave mentioned you can always drill into them with the menus*.

*as long as the Views are part of the current Workspace. From what I have seen, if something is not in the current Workspace (such as a specific View being excluded), the related functionality will not be there--even from short-cut keypresses.

Edited by User 905133
(2) to add a relevant qualifier to a later post (1) To add a suggestion re: Views menu
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On 1/1/2020 at 6:16 PM, Warner said:

 Dimension Pro produces no sound

Is this with 3rd party MIDI clips or data recorded in CbB?

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Thanks everyone for the replies and support, really appreciate it. Regarding the issues:

  • Loop construction view: I have the multidock opened on my laptopscreen (with marker and console tabs) and the main screen (track view) on my monitor. I will look into the option that the choice of Workspace view may prevent the Loop construction view not to open. As far as I remember, I have never seen loop construction view appear in the Views menu when a clip is selected but will check that too.
  • Dimension Pro: I'm not using MIDI clips or data from CbB. SONAR came with the Garriton Pocket Orchestra sample set and I used three samples of the same instrument with different articulations in Dimension Pro. Elsewhere on this forum other people are having trouble with Dimension Pro as well. It hasn't been updated since 2016 so I'll stop using it. I found another orchestral sampler.
  • Spontaneous rerouting of MIDI: it maybe hardware related as I used another midi controller. I couldn't find the MIDI routing in the track apart from the main I/O options but I'll look again. 

@mettelus: Thanks for the suggestion to "freeze" a version of Cakewalk so that you know the bugs and their workarounds. Perhaps I'll use an older laptop for this and disable the network so it won't update.

I will keep using Cakewalk for recording and mixing but I'm looking for another DAW for quick ideas and composition. There is an extensive comparison of DAWs here: https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/DAW-Chart.html.

It seems that Prosonus' Studio One and Tracktion's Waveform are worth testing for ease of use and good, intuitive workflow.

I'll keep you posted on the results of the issues above later this weekend.

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Regarding the MIDI re-routing issue, Jonathan Sasor of Cakewalk responded to another thread indicating they are aware of a problem that will likely be fixed in the next release:

 

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On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 2:42 AM, Warner said:

There is an extensive comparison of DAWs here: https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/DAW-Chart.html.

Not sure you can take this comparison seriously. 1- its last update was in 2018. 2- It shows favoritism toward certain DAWs he spent a more time with. 3- His ratings for Sonar (it was Sonar at the time) are skewed. It almost appears he either didn't find features, or made up a # 1-10.

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4 hours ago, chuckebaby said:

1- its last update was in 2018.

it says Last Updated - 2019 August 03

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3 hours ago, pwalpwal said:

it says Last Updated - 2019 August 03

You are correct.

However it never mentions Bandlab, only Sonar. So possibly there were some minor alterations done on the site but nothing I can see as far as DAW's are related to.

Quote - "Cakewalk 2018.11"

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On 1/3/2020 at 8:42 AM, Warner said:

Thanks everyone for the replies and support, really appreciate it. Regarding the issues:

  • Loop construction view: I have the multidock opened on my laptopscreen (with marker and console tabs) and the main screen (track view) on my monitor. I will look into the option that the choice of Workspace view may prevent the Loop construction view not to open. As far as I remember, I have never seen loop construction view appear in the Views menu when a clip is selected but will check that too.
  • Dimension Pro: I'm not using MIDI clips or data from CbB. SONAR came with the Garriton Pocket Orchestra sample set and I used three samples of the same instrument with different articulations in Dimension Pro. Elsewhere on this forum other people are having trouble with Dimension Pro as well. It hasn't been updated since 2016 so I'll stop using it. I found another orchestral sampler.
  • Spontaneous rerouting of MIDI: it maybe hardware related as I used another midi controller. I couldn't find the MIDI routing in the track apart from the main I/O options but I'll look again. 

@mettelus: Thanks for the suggestion to "freeze" a version of Cakewalk so that you know the bugs and their workarounds. Perhaps I'll use an older laptop for this and disable the network so it won't update.

I will keep using Cakewalk for recording and mixing but I'm looking for another DAW for quick ideas and composition. There is an extensive comparison of DAWs here: https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/DAW-Chart.html.

It seems that Prosonus' Studio One and Tracktion's Waveform are worth testing for ease of use and good, intuitive workflow.

I'll keep you posted on the results of the issues above later this weekend.

Here's an update to your suggestions:

- Loop construction view not appearing: I had an personalised workspace called Arranging. I switched Workspace > None  and lo and behold, my Loop construction appeared again! I looked into Manage workspace... option and indeed the view for Loop construction was turned off (see attachment)

- MIDI rerouting: when I split the instrument track I was able to see that the MIDI out was going to the wrong instrument and I was able to reroute it to the correct instrument. Obviously a bug and good to hear that the issue will be addressed in the upcoming update

Thanks again all of you for helping me out!

I now have to figure out for myself how to use Cakewalk as not being a regular user coping with new functionalities and new bugs with every update. One option is to stop updating and get to know the version that I have, other option is to selectively update e.g. once a year. Also, I am testing Tracktions Waveform for composing and arranging, which keeps the interface pretty basic.

 

2020-01-05 Cakewalk Workspaces.PNG

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