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AxlBrutality

[SOLVED] Major freezing/hanging issues with an interesting cause and no obvious solution. Any ideas?

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Let me preface this by saying I've already sent in a support ticket with dump files and all that; was just curious if anyone had come across something like this or had any ideas while they investigate.

So I started working on stuff for the first time in a couple of months.  Everything seemed fine until I  opened up an instance of LP EQ in a project and the GUI was blank...just white.  Wouldn't load, no matter how long I waited.

So whatever; I closed it.  Cakewalk instantly froze and stayed that way (no crash, just a perpetual hang).  Killed and reopened the project.  Repeated the issues with LP EQ a few times; gave up.  Continued opening various other plugins with no issue...

 Until I opened Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (GUI loaded just fine)....closed it, and Cake froze again.  I've since also reproduced both the GUI and freezing issues with the Slate Eliosis Deesser.  Haven't gone through every single plugin yet, but there's no pattern.  Some Sonar/Cake plugins do it, some don't.  Some Slate plugins do it; others don't.  The two JST plugs I have seem to be okay.  The Blue cat plugs I have are fine.  VST instruments don't have the same issue.  Sometime the GUI issue occurs, sometimes it doesn't...I believe they may be separate problems.  idk.

Why is Cakewalk suddenly having a freakout when I close certain random plugins, and not loading the GUI (even though it does launch...it's just blank) in others?

i7-8750, 8GB RAM (on the low end yes, but it happens on projects with fairly low utilization as well as projects that are pushing it), NVIDIA GTX 1080i, Windows 10.  Everything (Windows, NVIDIA, Gobbler, Slate, Cakewalk, etc.) is fully updated and cleaned.

I'm getting massively frustrated, as I've lost hours of work (even with auto save on plus manual saves, any work done in the session is lost for some reason when I have to kill the program) and major projects have now ground to a halt.

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I have had certain 32-bit plugins display a blank UI window upon inserting into a project, through the Browser Pane.  When I save the project, close it, and reopen it, it seems to then display OK - have had this for many years now, but since it appears for MY situation, to be a plugin bridging display issue, I never sweated it.

Others have reported occasionally having plugin difficulties with VST 3 versions of some plugins, and for THAT situation, many/most/all of those folks found a workaround by using the VST 2 versions of the plugin, then circling back to check on things every now and then - looking for updates for the VST 3 versions of the plugins, to see if their issues were addressed.....

Not sure I can offer much additional info....

Bob Bone

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I had this issue with Jamstix 4 when it first came out, but only on my laptop.

The issue was due to an incompatibility with the NVIDIA driver.  Making Cakewalk use the onboard Intel graphics instead fixed it, and I've not seen this issue since.

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many years back we had this with x-ray and as far as i can remember you had to turn x-ray off. roy

 

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@AxlBrutality - have you tried disabling any cloud sync services (OneDrive, dropbox, etc) & virus checkers? 

I've had crashes in the past where those type of services were trying to access files Cakewalk was using.  The fix was to make sure all of Cakewalk's directories, and any VST's directories were excluded from syncing & scanning.

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2 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

@AxlBrutality - have you tried disabling any cloud sync services (OneDrive, dropbox, etc) & virus checkers? 

I've had crashes in the past where those type of services were trying to access files Cakewalk was using.  The fix was to make sure all of Cakewalk's directories, and any VST's directories were excluded from syncing & scanning.

Yea, all the usual suspects have been checked. I keep all that stuff disabled when working anyway, as a rule of thumb.

In reference to your previous comment, I did just recently update my NVIDIA driver, so I'll investigate that later today.

Edited by AxlBrutality

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1 minute ago, AxlBrutality said:

Yea, all the usual suspects have been checked. I keep all that stuff disabled when working anyway, as a rule of thumb.

Maybe try disabling your NVIDIA card or try forcing Cakewalk to use the on board Intel graphics. The NVIDIA card on my laptop didn't play well with some plugins. Jamstix 4 was the worst, but at least they acknowledged the issue.

Cakewalk doesn't need a powerful graphics card in any case.

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1 minute ago, msmcleod said:

Maybe try disabling your NVIDIA card or try forcing Cakewalk to use the on board Intel graphics. The NVIDIA card on my laptop didn't play well with some plugins. Jamstix 4 was the worst, but at least they acknowledged the issue.

Cakewalk doesn't need a powerful graphics card in any case.

Lol yea; I ninja edited my post but apparently not fast enough.  Haha.

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@msmcleod So my integrated Intel graphics was actually already the default.  I tried running Cakewalk with my NVIDIA GPU just out of curiosity; same result.  Eliosis Deesser and Slate Virtual Tape Machine both freeze Cake when you close them; LP EQ loads a blank GUI and causes the same  hang when it's closed.

Also, I have still not found any other plugins that cause the issue so far.

Update:  I also figured out that it's not just the instance of the plugin that was already in the project.   Inserting a new LP EQ, VTM, or Deesser does the same thing.

Edited by AxlBrutality

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I use a little trick to close... 

- I save my session

- I press the "E" in the keyboard (bypassing all the plugins) 

- If cakewalk ask to save don't save (to not save the bypass setting. 

- Close the session. 

 

Since I do this I not experimenting the software hang when close... (sorry for my poor English). 

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And, as mentioned earlier - did you get a chance to check to see if those particular plugins are VST 3, and if so, did you try using their VST 2 versions?  This HAS occurred in the past, with some Slate plugins, and others, so worth trying.  There is no audio difference between using VST 2 versus VST 3, but MIGHT make it work better to use the VST 2 versions.

Bob Bone

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Are you using a native 64bit system? ie are all your plugins 64bit or are you also using 32bit plugins alongside them.

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8 hours ago, AxlBrutality said:

I  opened up an instance of LP EQ in a project and the GUI was blank

This is indicative of a video driver that does not support OpenGL 3.2

Fortunately, there is a config option for the LP EQ and LP MB to handle this -

  • Go to C:\Cakewalk Content\LP EQ\Settings
  • Open LPEQ.cws in notepad
  • Locate the string EnableOpenGL="1"
  • Change it to EnableOpenGL="0" and save the file

Repeat the process for LP MB using the LPMB.cws in C:\Cakewalk Content\LP MB\Settings

I do not have the other plug-ins and cannot offer any suggestion other than to contact the manufacturer. Their plug-ins may be looking for features not available in the video driver as well.

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1 hour ago, Tezza said:

Are you using a native 64bit system? ie are all your plugins 64bit or are you also using 32bit plugins alongside them.

I am on a 64 bit system; I only use two 32-bit plugins.  I believe  of the offending plugins (Cakewalk's LP EQ) itself is a 32-bit plugin (someone might need to confirm that for me; it's in my 32 bit program folders but I thought it was updated at some point).  I use one other plugin which appears to be 32-bit (Youlean Loudness Meter) but a) it functions fine, and b) the issues do persist with or without that plugin in a project, and c) two of the other offending plugins are 64-bit.

2 hours ago, Robert Bone said:

And, as mentioned earlier - did you get a chance to check to see if those particular plugins are VST 3, and if so, did you try using their VST 2 versions?  This HAS occurred in the past, with some Slate plugins, and others, so worth trying.  There is no audio difference between using VST 2 versus VST 3, but MIGHT make it work better to use the VST 2 versions.

Bob Bone

The Eliosis Deesser and Slate VTM are both the VST2 versions.  Idk about LP EQ since the GUI is blank (and there's only one option for it in my FX Bin menu), but I would assume it defaults to VST2.

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1 hour ago, scook said:

This is indicative of a video driver that does not support OpenGL 3.2

Fortunately, there is a config option for the LP EQ and LP MB to handle this -

  • Go to C:\Cakewalk Content\LP EQ\Settings
  • Open LPEQ.cws in notepad
  • Locate the string EnableOpenGL="1"
  • Change it to EnableOpenGL="0" and save the file

Repeat the process for LP MB using the LPMB.cws in C:\Cakewalk Content\LP MB\Settings

I do not have the other plug-ins and cannot offer any suggestion other than to contact the manufacturer. Their plug-ins may be looking for features not available in the video driver as well.

This solved both the GUI loading issue, and  Cakewalk altogether freezing when closing the plugin!

I will say the other two offending plugins fully load their GUIs just fine, but they still freeze Cakewalk when closing said GUIs.

I would like to try maybe rolling back my video drivers (in an attempt to troubleshoot/fix the other plugins); would the edit made to the LP files affect that fix at all?  Will it affect things in the future (when drivers are updated)?  In others words, do I need to go back in and re-edit the value to 1 when drivers are either rolled back or updated?

Edited by AxlBrutality

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My guess is support for OpenGL will not be better with older drivers regardless  the fix should work for drivers with the necessary OpenGL support but the plug-in graphics will run slower.

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29 minutes ago, AxlBrutality said:

I will say the other two offending plugins fully load their GUIs just fine, but they still freeze Cakewalk when closing said GUIs.

This still may be something the plug-in manufacturer must address. Try creating a hang dump and supplying it to BandLab.

 

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According to Intel's website, the i7-8750 supports OpenGL 4.5:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/134906/intel-core-i7-8750h-processor-9m-cache-up-to-4-10-ghz.html

I'm using an old Intel i5 3570, which supports OpenGL 4.0.

I'd be surprised if these aren't backwards compatible with OpenGL 3.2.  As most people here are using newer Intel processors than I have, I think we'd be seeing far more crash reports if this wasn't the case.

However, given that disabling OpenGL solves it for the LP plugins, it does point to a graphics driver issue.

The question is, is it the NVIDIA or the Intel ?

I agree with @scook - generate a crash dump, and get it sent to Cakewalk support. Hopefully they can at least narrow it down.

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Yea, as mentioned in the OP, I had already generated crash reports and filed with support. 

2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

The question is, is it the NVIDIA or the Intel ? 

Seeing as how it happens regardless of which one I run, I'm presuming both? Lol.   Unless a fault in one would affect the other as well? Idk.

Edit: Cakewalk says they're investigating and will get back to me.

Thanks for the input everyone, and for the solution for the LP EQ (which I use quite often)!  I'll also update support with what we've learned here in case Noel doesn't catch it.

Edited by AxlBrutality

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13 hours ago, AxlBrutality said:

I am on a 64 bit system; I only use two 32-bit plugins.  I believe  of the offending plugins (Cakewalk's LP EQ) itself is a 32-bit plugin (someone might need to confirm that for me; it's in my 32 bit program folders but I thought it was updated at some point).  I use one other plugin which appears to be 32-bit (Youlean Loudness Meter) but a) it functions fine, and b) the issues do persist with or without that plugin in a project, and c) two of the other offending plugins are 64-bit.

The Eliosis Deesser and Slate VTM are both the VST2 versions.  Idk about LP EQ since the GUI is blank (and there's only one option for it in my FX Bin menu), but I would assume it defaults to VST2.

Hi - I have a 64-bit version of LP EQ and LP MB in my VST plugins folder, as VST 2 versions, and they are also BOTH in the VST3 folder in C:\\Program Files\Common Files.  I think they came out in 2016.

So, I am not understanding why you believe Cakewalk would have loaded 32-bit versions into your project.  LP EQ shows up in the EQ category, and LP MB shows up in the Dynamics category.  When I insert either one, it loads the VST 3 version, by default.

Try looking in your C:\\Program Files\Common Files\VST3 for the LP EQ and LP MB plugins there, and if found, simply rename them temporarily, and then you should see both LP EQ and LP MB VST 2 versions displayed in your list of audio effects in Cakewalk - try loading each into a new project, just to see if the same issue persists.  (don't forget to rename the VST 3 versions back to their proper names when done with this test).

Bob Bone

 

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