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Colin Nicholls

Feature Request: Multi-Track Export by Arranger

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I use Studio One for album mastering but I'd love to be able to stay in Cakewalk. One feature that seems like a no-brainer now that we have the Arranger lane is multi-track export.

I would love to see the EXPORT module allow me to save a project out as a series of named FLAC files (or even burn to CD!) using the sections defined in the Arrangement:

image.thumb.png.ac37818ff616f2135b52ea0de2eab17d.png

The goal is to export a stereo mix out to a series of separate files, named after the Section that defined their Start/Duration times.

I would not expect the file names to include the Cakewalk Track name in this use-case.  The actual tracks are not important here (other than hosting the raw audio and for applying specific processing to specific parts of the project).

For example, in this image above, I have recorded a tape cassette that I am restoring for a friend, and I have defined the song/track breaks using the Arranger Track; set up stereo adjustment on each recording run; I have mastering effects in the Master bus (not shown), and at this point I have done everything I need to the audio. I just need to GET IT OUT of the project, as separate files in MP3, FLAC, or WAV, or similar format. Or even straight burn to CD.

(Cakewalk has CD Burning ability but it requires mixed and rendered WAV files on disk and, dammit, everything I need is right here in the project. Including album/artist  information in the Project Info dialogs...)

Being able to set up an alternative track sequence (using Arrangements) and burn a test mix to CD to listen in the car would be cool.

Please consider adding this feature to the development hopper.

Edited by Colin Nicholls
Changed screen shot; edited for clarity
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@Colin Nicholls - just so I understand correctly...

Do you mean:
1. Export a stereo mix down by sections, e.g:    Section1.wav, Section2.wav, Section3.wav etc..

or

2. Export multiple tracks by sections, e.g.:  Section1-Track1.wav, Section1-Track2.wav, Section1-Track3.wav,  Section2-Track1.wav, Section2-Track2.wav etc ?

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I don't want to speak for Colin but I had a FR idea ages ago where we could extend the functionality of Markers where they could be designated as as Track Indexes and contain other metadata like ISRC numbers, and that kind of thing. But now we have the Arranger track, and better yet, multiple Arranger tracks, that makes this far more powerful than my original idea.

Going to assume we're on the same page with this (please tell me to pull my head in if I'm wrong, Colin! HAHA!) but I would approach it like this:

Have a Mastering Template where there's at least 2 tracks dedicated to importing in whole songs as clips (2 tracks so you can do crossfades/overlaps, etc.), have the Browser open on the Notes tab, and the routing for those 2 tracks going to a Master out.

You'd set up the project Notes tab in the Browser with the Artist, Album Name, Album Artwork, UPC/EAN number, and all of the usual additional stuff like publisher, copyright info, genre, etc.

Then you'd set up Arranger sections for each song, with the ability for additional metadata to be added to each section: Song Title, Artist (sometimes you want to do compilations rather than using the main album artist name), ISRC, composers, genre, copyright, album art (if different to the main Info album art), etc.

Obviously at that point you'd be free to move the sections around as you please, and the CD Track ID of the numbers would update automatically. 

Master as you see fit.

Then you'd have the option in the Export Module to export each section as its own WAV/FLAC/MP3, etc. for a digital release, or the entire thing as one big WAV compile, or export to DDP for replication (which would include all of the necessary RedBook standard lead ins, etc. automatically).

Studio One does it more or less like this in the Project tab, but I think using Arranger sections would make this FAR more powerful ultimately. Combine that with some nice metering and you've got a pretty damn powerful mastering environment! The main idea with this is that we're extending on what we already have rather than adding anything new.

That all said, this sounds like it would be a pretty massive job! Just being able to export each Arranger section as its own file automatically (ie: if you have 5 different sections, exporting all 5 as their own file) would be really handy too.

 

Edited by Lord Tim
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2 hours ago, Colin Nicholls said:

I use Studio One for album mastering but I'd love to be able to stay in Cakewalk. One feature that seems like a no-brainer now that we have the Arranger lane is multi-track export.

I would love to see the EXPORT module allow me to save a project out as a series of named FLAC files (or even burn to CD!) using the sections defined in the Arrangement:

image.thumb.png.310b083240b2eb665bbf2452d11d781b.png

In this use-case, for example, I have recorded two sides of a tape cassette that I am restoring for a friend, and I have defined the song/track breaks using the Arranger Track; set up stereo adjustment on each recording run; I have mastering effects in the Master bus (not shown), and at this point I have done everything I need to the audio. I just need to GET IT OUT of the project, as separate MP3, FLAC, or WAV, or similar. Or even straight to CD. Cakewalk has CD Burning ability but it requires mixed and rendered WAV files on disk and, dammit, everything I need is right here in the project. Including album/artist  information in the Project Info dialogs...

Being able to set up an alternative track sequence (using the Arranger) and burn a test mix to CD to listen in the car would be JAM.

Please consider adding this feature to the development hopper.

I'm understanding you correctly, do yoy want to export the stems individually as it's in the project?  If so - this can be done in Cakewalk. 

Step 1: 

Tracks.thumb.jpg.6788f5b6797a32c297189340eac905c8.jpg

Step 2: Choose your channel format. Best to choose Follow Source. This will render Mono and Stereo tracks in their individual formats. 

1437661766_FileSource.thumb.jpg.071bc336324d3322b2e8609fe9cad6a6.jpg

Step 3: Choose your file type1255495017_FileType.thumb.jpg.489fa68b47abdefc72367d01ad221c21.jpg

Hope this is what you were looking for. forgive me if I'm way off track here, but that's how it works for me. 

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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51 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

@Colin Nicholls - just so I understand correctly...

Do you mean:
1. Export a stereo mix down by sections, e.g:    Section1.wav, Section2.wav, Section3.wav etc..

or

2. Export multiple tracks by sections, e.g.:  Section1-Track1.wav, Section1-Track2.wav, Section1-Track3.wav,  Section2-Track1.wav, Section2-Track2.wav etc ?

Option 1.

I would expect that each exported file would be named after the Section only, and not incorporate the Track name.

In my use-case, the tracks are irrelevant (except for applying specific processing to specific parts of the project.

EDIT: I realize I shot myself in the foot in my screenshot by naming each section "Track 1", "Track 2", etc without realizing the confusion that would lead to with Cakewalk's project tracks.  I'll update my screenshot in the first post.

 

Edited by Colin Nicholls

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40 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

Have a Mastering Template where there's at least 2 tracks dedicated to importing in whole songs as clips (2 tracks so you can do crossfades/overlaps, etc.), have the Browser open on the Notes tab, and the routing for those 2 tracks going to a Master out.

You'd set up the project Notes tab in the Browser with the Artist, Album Name, Album Artwork, UPC/EAN number, and all of the usual additional stuff like publisher, copyright info, genre, etc.

Then you'd set up Arranger sections for each song, with the ability for additional metadata to be added to each section: Song Title, Artist (sometimes you want to do compilations rather than using the main album artist name), ISRC, composers, genre, copyright, album art (if different to the main Info album art), etc.

Obviously at that point you'd be free to move the sections around as you please, and the CD Track ID of the numbers would update automatically. 

Master as you see fit.

 

Yeah this is pretty much what I was thinking. I was hoping there was a viable limited enhancement that got us 80% of the way there, hence my simplified request. I was wondering if we could avoid overloading Arranger Track sections with additional metadata. This does make sense, though. 

I LOVE Studio One's project page but there is nothing that couldn't be achieved in Cakewalk with a bit of additional work.

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3 minutes ago, Colin Nicholls said:

Yeah this is pretty much what I was thinking. I was hoping there was a viable limited enhancement that got us 80% of the way there, hence my simplified request. I was wondering if we could avoid overloading Arranger Track sections with additional metadata. This does make sense, though. 

I LOVE Studio One's project page but there is nothing that couldn't be achieved in Cakewalk with a bit of additional work.

I hate it! HAHA! It's just so.... not Cakewalk, and it hurts my brain having to work out how to zoom in on things or copy effects from one track to another. But fantastic tool, ultimately - it does everything I need for releases. If you're deep in the S1 way of working, I could see how this would be really fluid.

My thinking with the additional section metadata was to kind of keep it out of the way and throw it into a sub menu for each Arranger section.  So in the context menu, you already have sub menus with the colour, Section Type, etc.  Maybe have another sub menu under Section Type for Section Metadata where you could sneak in the art, title, artist, ISRC, etc.

Cluttering stuff is bad for everyone, so sneaking things away so advanced users can take advantage of them easily enough, but getting them out of the faces of people who don't need them is a good idea.

 

 

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You can kind of doing what your suggesting already (minus the meta data) by creating arrangements for each individual section.

In other words, drag section 1 into arrangement 1, drag section 2 into arrangement 2 etc.. so each arrangement has only one section in it.

Make sure you rename each arrangements to match each song name.

When you select "Export as Audio" from the arrangement dropdown, you'll have the option of selecting all the arrangements (songs) and it'll export them all as individual audio files.

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10 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

When you select "Export as Audio" from the arrangement dropdown, you'll have the option of selecting all the arrangements (songs) and it'll export them all as individual audio files.

Okay, I didn't realize this was a thing. Interesting. I'll play with that.

I'll let my enhancement request stand, though, if you would be so kind 🙂

Thanks Mark

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You'd really get most of the way there for the basic track export thing by having the ability to either export the arrangement or export the sections in the arrangement, so you'd end up with exports named something like ProjectName-Arrangement-SectionName for each slice. Even aside from mastering, this would be a huge workflow enhancement for sound design or dialog exports.

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On 9/29/2020 at 10:51 AM, msmcleod said:


When you select "Export as Audio" from the arrangement dropdown, you'll have the option of selecting all the arrangements (songs) and it'll export them all as individual audio files.

@msmcleod, I actually used this technique yesterday with reasonably good results. I named the arrangement "the name of the album" and then one-by-one placed each section into the arrangement and chose the "Export as Audio" from the arrangement menu. Choosing MP3 did give me the opportunity to add the metadata for each export but I kinda understand how this is working under the hood.

Thanks for the suggestion. It would be nice to have some sort of "batch mode" for this sequence of steps but I can also see how it gets complicated with the metadata and all the different export formats. Even so, exporting the whole set of sections without any ID3 tag info or whatever would be a time saver.

I'll leave it up to the developers whether any enhancement in this area is feasible. I'd love to see it in a future release.

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This is where one of us (probably me) goes "It should be easy enough to... [insert ridiculous idea here], right?" 😁

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