Quinellipe Zorn

Thanks, yeah, I was just curious about whether the original June sign-ups "mattered" or if people were only getting in by using the much later beta sign-up.

Thanks, yes, I understand to avoid it, and thanks much for the hot-key; mainly, though, the issue is with playback with the loop off of this file afterward, as aforementioned would like to submit a support ticket but as described above seems not to be working.

I tried the "submit a request" but after the "BandLab Zendesk will receive..." prompt, it goes to the "logout" or "nevermind" choice, and BOTH choices simply to the Bandlab feed page, I can't find any way to actually submit this to engineering.

It seems an audio clip created from a mistaken constant loop-record of 30 ticks (an issue that I find happens easily by accident though I don't know what is causing me to accidentally select a 30 tick loop) causes the whole file to perform so badly it basically can't work and, if attempting to play, typically, after a long non-responsiveness (no keyboard input can stop it from attempting to play, if one clicks play) crashes with an audio engine error.  If the track with the "bad" (troublesome) audio on it is simply deleted, the project goes back to working fine.

I simply wanted to send Cakewalk by Bandlab support the project file, but cannot given aforementioned issue.  I hope somebody knows some other way to submit that, please, and thanks.  (I am guessing the same issue can occur in the next-generation Sonar replacement, so I presume it's of interest to mitigate for anyone who encounters it and doesn't want to spend potentially hours troubleshooting and trying to work around; unless one knows the 30 tick recording loop problem, it takes a very long time to figure out, in my experience).

Thanks!!

I saw that people here referenced that there's now a Cakewalk Sonar Beta, and I see it mentions that at https://www.cakewalk.com/sonar/  

Did anyone who signed up months ago for news on Sonar get any notice about the beta, or did Cakewalk just put that up on the website independently without notifying anyone from that list?

I signed up for the beta (again?), as I don't know what's going on with that list, never heard anything and suddenly this beta program, and I noticed also in signing up for it that there were several questions, unlike when I signed up for news months ago.  

So I wonder if signing up for news didn't "matter" for the beta process, and one has to sign up again if one wants to be involved in the beta, as I did to be safe?  Does anyone know?  Am I the only person who signed up months ago for news on Cakewalk Next and then never heard anything?

On 2/1/2019 at 7:46 AM, scook said:

BandLab has never directly addressed "why" but they have made it clear on more than one occasion that CbB will remain free. Here is an example where Meng states:

 

 

So, the basic product is free (similar to what Cakewalk started doing with SHS) but there are plans for paid add-ons.

I think Meng was being honest and remains so, but this has to do with product-based thinking.  As long as this product has existed and will exist, it's "free" (same with the lite/web mini-DAW, not at a direct material cost but with the cost of an email and ultimately traceability of the typical user, obviously some form of market intelligence gathering).  When the product is gone/over, it's no longer a product, there's nothing to be for free or paid.  Now there's new products coming, they aren't free.

That's the way corporate product-based thinking goes.

To many "regular folk" it's double speak or lies, but within the system, it's transparent truthfulness.  

I'm deliberately not making any comment on society or culture or whether it "should" be this way or what's right or wrong; that said, we all know we live in a capitalist system (again, rightly or wrongly, for it or against it), so I don't think it was ever reasonable to believe this was solely an academic sort of R&D investment, especially in an era of capitalism when R&D is  so devalued unless it's linked to a forthcoming business benefit.  This has gone much as I see many others expected, a free product while they figured out the market and built up their capability to enter that market, and now it's time to fold that and enter the space for direct profit.  My only commercial hope is that they do have some "subscribe to 'perpetual license'" sort of model, but mainly I hope they continue to focus on fixing bugs, though I'm not really expecting that, I imagine the same focus on new features over ongoing aggravations will take over as usual.  I rather fear and even expect instead Cakewalk will once more be dragged back into the typical ensh!ttification process, if you'll pardon my language, we see take over most corporate endeavors, no mere social media process.  But c'est la vie.  We've gotten an enormous unexpected gift these last few years, I'm happy to have saved some money while Cakewalk has gotten much better and more functional to use.

Fascinating, thanks for keeping us updated @satchmo-x.  That large file thing is quite intriguing to me.  On some occasion this year Cakewalk was opening projects quite slowly, and then it suddenly went back to its typical faster times, perhaps some relationship to this file issue of some sort, as I can be moving files around and zipping things in cleansing at arbitrary times.  If it happens again I hope I will remember to look for unusual file changes.  Anyway, mainly just glad you got it working, that's great!

AH, got it - somehow a 30 tick loop was set, and, yes, that was something that happened years back, too!

I was going to delete above but figured it might help to leave in case someone makes the same error and finds this before they get to realizing there's a nearly-invisible loop. 

PS - this project is also quite small, just 2 MIDI tracks, each with a corresponding instrument track, and 4 audio tracks; I'm running 100+ track projects with no issue ongoing, as well as now, it's somehow just this one project (as far as I know as of now)

SOLVED - solution below (3rd post)

Hi,

A bit out of the blue, just after I updated to the most recent Cakewalk by Bandlab (I am not stating or presuming any causality or relationship at all, it's most likely coincidence, just noting I am on the most recent as of today, just loaded it), a project which I originated last Sunday and had functioned, now indicates "Audio Engine Dropout" and won't play anything as soon as I click on "play." 

The audio outputs, as far as I can see, seem to all go to Master, and the Master out is going to the same audio device output as other projects, which work fine, are, except for the two MIDI tracks which seem to go to identifiable and prior-functioning MIDI instrument tracks as they had before and seems correct.

I've tried deleting all the tracks out of that but one audio track (with no plugins) or one MIDI track + instrument track, same problem in either case.

I can open another Cakewalk project immediately after closing this one after it fails, and the other Cakewalk project works fine (there is no significant configuration difference between the projects).

I know I can recreate the non-playing project, and fortunately this project had just been started on Sunday with a few audio tracks, so it's easy enough to recreate from scratch.  But I'd like to find the issue/cause.  

Any ideas on where to look?    I seem to recall this happening before but it would have been years ago and I can't recall (if my memory is even correct that it happened to one single project like this) the issue.  I did try searching the forum but, surprisingly, no search results are found for "audio engine dropout."  Thank you.

On 10/15/2023 at 9:56 AM, 57Gregy said:

I see what you mean now.
Personally, my Yamaha keyboard's sounds are much better than TTS-1 or MS GS Wavetable that it's not a problem for any MIDI file to be played on it, the default.

It's not a "problem" per se, but it's extra clicks compared to just opening a MIDI file and pressing play.  

On 10/14/2023 at 7:40 AM, mettelus said:

Correct, the auto-insert of TTS-1 will only occur with no MIDI outputs selected. Although it is not a huge deal to add external synths once CbB is opened, it can be a PITA to remember to disable them when closing CbB.

As far as routing, I would highly recommend considering track templates for any instruments you take the time to set up. After loading a MIDI file you can simply insert track templates and route the MIDI outputs as appropriate, OR... another option is to simply shift-drag MIDI clips into the correct synth track from the open MIDI file (even with outputs selected on load), which may be far quicker. If you get to a complex project that you use often, a project template would be helpful, but there wouldn't be a way around getting MIDI data from the MIDI file itself to point to the correct track other than mentioned above. There would always be some "sorting" involved.

Thanks; I have templates.  I was just hoping there was some way to recapture the zero-work option.  Too bad but life goes on.  

On 10/8/2023 at 6:09 PM, mettelus said:

Just to point this feature out without you needing to dig for it, if you right click a MIDI file and "Open with..." Cakewalk without any MIDI output devices selected (as you show above), Cakewalk will open and insert TTS-1 automatically and route each channel to the "best fit" audio for each MIDI channel in the file. That feature has been around a long time now.

Thanks, though that's what I'm trying to avoid, having to deselect things.  Doing that often causes CW to forget instrument associations, and anyway it then becomes something I have to do over again.  

If I have to deselect everything, I may as well just direct the MIDI tracks to some synth of my choice, as either way I now have manual work to do I didn't have to do before.

10 minutes ago, Quinellipe Zorn said:

I literally didn't understand you meant the video was the answer, please consider mere stupidity in the part of my reply rather than refusing to read your advice.  I just thought your video was part of your sig.

@John Vere sorry, I still don't see the answer to the question "what to do if one *does* have outputs selected?  I mean, besides deselect them all and open the file",  as I asked?  I really have looked through/am reading the closed captioning as well now to your video, and I'm not seeing how to get around the problem that of wanting to just open a midi file (CWP or otherwise) and have it just play MIDI without doing as @57Gregy mentions and, similarly, without me reassigning MIDI outputs to one of my synths (hardware or soft) and, of course, WITHOUT me having to disable all my MIDI devices, as I asked anyone here.  

It seems to me that the answer is it is not possible?

On 10/8/2023 at 8:43 AM, 57Gregy said:

The simple version: insert TTS-1 and route your MIDI tracks to it.

Thanks; I guess there's no way, if I have a bunch of MIDI devices already listed, for TTS1 to be a default?

On 10/7/2023 at 8:34 AM, John Vere said:

I gave you the keys to the car ( The Video). But you can choose to push it still if you like. I think the keys would be an easier way to get to were you want to go.  

I literally didn't understand you meant the video was the answer, please consider mere stupidity in the part of my reply rather than refusing to read your advice.  I just thought your video was part of your sig.

1 hour ago, JohnnyV said:

If you have Cakewalk installed and set as Windows default for opening midi files you most certainly don’t need to suffer the MS wavetable synth. 
 

If you have nothing selected in preferences/midi/devices/ output. The TTS-1 will automatically open with Cakewalk when you double click an Midi file. TTS-1 is a GM synth so plays all GM files no problem. It is 10 x the sound quality of the MS wavetable. 
I only use it to preview download midi files. If I like file I replace the instruments with better stuff.  

 

In case you or anyone sees this before I go digging, as it's not obvious to me...what to do if one *does* have outputs selected?  I mean, besides deselect them all and open the file.  I'm sure it's something obvious I'm not thinking of...thanks to anyone...

4 hours ago, HIBI said:

Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth is no longer supported in the latest Cakewalk 2023.09

Have you tried TTS-1 instead? It's GM2 compatible.

OH, I missed that, thanks!!

GOT IT!  At least in part!

For some reason, in the affected CWP/MID files where this problem manifests (and will remain resident on opening at least MID files afterward), is that when I change the MIDI output/instrument the Bank Select method for the *TRACK* does *NOT* change!!!  It remains as "Normal" instead of changing to "Controller 0"!  Why, well, that part I have no idea.  But I see now all I have to do is go down and change that, and then everything works as one would expect.  

For whatever reason, update or whatever, I never ran into this behavior of the Bank Select method not changing when the MIDI output/instrument changes before.  

Thank you to everyone who volunteered ideas!

Now everything is back to functioning as I had come to expect.  I don't know why this weird little bug now happens, but I can easily fix it and move on when it does.

This is just the weirdest thing I can recall in a long, long time...

After messing around and with the only change being disabling and reenabling devices in MIDI, it seems at least some MIDI files have no issues such as this.  And creating a brand new file, there's no issues.  Also no issues opening CWPs which have worked.  But if I open this one CWP (or other versions of it), the banks will not change properly on the XW-P1 AND from then on they won't, as if the file has sent the XW-P1 some sysex it doesn't "like."  

I'm probably going to just give up on it as it's so weirdly isolated an issue that seems to have otherwise, other than this odd project, "fixed itself" re opening new MID files after I reenabled the devices.

(Separately, not an issue at first after I updated and not an issue until just today after a Win11 update and I rebooted, VSTs are taking forever to load (independent of above).  Though I'm guessing that this is an independent Waves thing as I see I'm getting weirdness I've seen before where Waves Central claims not to see "any" activated plugins and seems to somehow think my C drive is "disconnected", yet the plugins are working just fine.   But I imagine that's an unrelated Waves thing, now I'm just venting, haha.)

Thanks!

It seems that suddenly when I go to "Audio Library" in the Media section, it does not go to the same place set in Preferences.  My Preferences has the Audio Library location equal to the audio drive I use and where I keep samples, not the C drive "standard" location.  I can see "Preferences" shows the correct location, but when I go to the "Audio Library" shortcut it continues to go to the C drive where there's nothing.  I have to manually navigate to the folder now.  Any thoughts?

Yup, thanks Promidi, until now it's been working like that w/o issue (I reloaded the definition file as part of trying to figure it out).  This seems restricted to just some oddity with imported MIDI clip files, as strange as that sounds.  

(And some point earlier finally remembered/found it was master.ins that had the actual data, all looks fine/as it was before as far as I can tell and per checking a backup version.)

Okay, I'm zeroing in on it and it seems weird to me and seems to point to project-specific-something and related to being in the same project with imported MIDI tracks, here's why...

I've realized the only projects in which this is happening are ones with imported MIDI tracks - something I don't normally do and has been just in a couple recent projects.  Going back further with typical-for-me/most projects with no imported MIDI tracks, no issues in banks changing when selecting a sound in the patch browser.  Quite strange, at least so far, I'm probably missing something obvious.  (Yes, I am soloing a single track, trying different ones, in testing this.  If I add using the same track template to the projects with imported MIDI, they don't change banks, while they do change patches, but if in non-imported MIDI projects, so far so good.)

In case that helps anyone help me.  I'm sure it's something foolish on my end...anyway, thank you!

(And I am guilty of not doing a reboot, I will do that later, probably early AM local time Monday).

Thank you.  Perhaps I can demonstrate this problem a different way that helps,

If I record MIDI, and I change to the preset hex layer bank (97), the recorded event will show as a "Normal" Bank Select Method Patch Change, and while it will play back correctly on the XW-P1, selecting the correct bank and sound, the Bank # that shows in Cakewalk is 12416 (which is out of range) and the name that appears is "Overdriven Guitar' (which doesn't even appear on the XW-P1 list of patches as such.   Notably, 12416 = 97*128.  Just as notably, the next patch change shows in Cakewalk as 12288 which is 96*128 and, yes, the bank is 96 on the XW1 (and, yes, playback works fine if I leave it that way).  And, yes, if I change the Data to Controller 0 and the value to 97 or 96, for each of these, it will play correctly, as well as show the correct name.  

But ever since reassociating the Casio XW-P1 to the device, as I had to do after the upgrade as it lost association, selecting from the Patch Browser  for the track does not send the correct bank change, whether I set it to Controller 0 or Normal Bank Select (it should be Controller 0, I believe, as seems demonstrated given that as I "hardcode" a Patch change event with Controller 0 and the Patch #, it always performs as expected).

I'm making a dumb MIDI knowledge mistake here, I just can't remember the tweak I had to do last time this happened.