Matthew Simon Fletcher

Cool - thanks as always Noel and team.

I've just had a crash this morning but unsure if this pertains to this build or not - i'll share the .dmp with you via PM.

Thanks as always guys!

Are there any known benefits to stability/performance of being on the latest VC redists?

On the flipside any risks/things to watch out for these are they 100% backward compatible?

1 minute ago, Andres Medina said:

Thanks for the feedback!

I found that the crash happens only  on the first attempt to create a Melodyne region in the project, AND applying it to several tracks at once.

If I already have a Melodyne region active, there is no crash at all ...

Celemony team seem to have a trace of what's going on, and will let me know.

Thanks for confirming - I've got some more edits to do this evening so will test again and share the logs if I get a crash.

Fairly sure that's what I would have done the otherday though, so definitely doesn't seem 100% reproducible.

Best wishes,
Matthew

Hi Andres

Strange - I've been using the latest melodyne version in Cakewalk with a large number of tracks and haven't experiences any issues.

Hope you're able to get it resolved.

Matthew

https://www.bestservice.com/celtic_era.html

Can highly recommend the Celtic Era library, which has Highland pipes and Uillean pipes.

For interest I decided to save a track template that included all  tracks in the project (approx. 500)

Following on from above, the baseline usage was 3.6GB

Surprisingly the peak usage didn't appear to go above 5.5GB

Post change I believe it was around 3.7GB.

Given this had approximately 4-5 times the content of the initial one, I was surprised that it seemed to complete in a similar time frame (2 mins) and the resource didn't seem to go significantly higher, although it still exhbits the same issue of memory not being released and a long wait time.
Looking at resource monitor there was no maxing out of CPU, RAM or disk, so I'm wondering what the limiting factor is to performance? Something that isn't multi-threaded? CPU was only around 10% so doesn't even look like any cores were being maxed out.

On 12/21/2021 at 3:52 AM, Fred's Gratis Scores said:

Hi,

I have the latest version of Cakewalk By BandLab (2021.12) and a small-medium sized orchestral project template with 214 tracks and about 53 soft synths. Every time I save a folder+tracks as a track template, it eats up about 5G of memory and does not release it until I close Cakewalk. My system is Windows 10 with 32GB system memory. Also, it takes over a minute for the save to complete.

Monitoring memory usage with Windows Task manager, this is what I'm experiencing:

1. Start and log in to the computer: 5.3GB out of 32GB memory used.
2. Start Cakewalk: 5.6GB total / 145.3MB Cakewalk used
3. Load Template (214 tracks, ~53 soft synths, 47 track/synths in Archive state): 15.3GB total / 8.7GB Cakewalk used
4. Save Track template that uses Kontakt and 3 instruments with all samples purged: 20.6GB total / 14.3GB Cakewalk used (does not go down afterwards)
5. Save another Track template of Kontakt with 3 instruments and all samples purged: 25.2GB total / 18.8GB Cakewalk used (does not go down even after several minutes)
6. Save another Track template of Kontakt with 2 instruments and all samples purged: 29.6GB total / 23.2GB Cakewalk used (still is not going down) - my system memory is now maxed out and Cakewalk is noticeably slower (I would expect that with maxed system memory).
7. Close project: 12.9GB total / 7.7GB Cakewalk used - I would expect this to go back down to ~140MB used by Cakewalk. Still does not go down after waiting several minutes.
8. Close Cakewalk: 5.2GB system memory used. Seems all Cakewalk memory recovered.

I don't think this is a new issue, I've been experiencing slow track template save times since track templates were fixed (was that this year or last? I don't remember). I'm just now noticing the memory that it's eating up and not releasing. I haven't checked yet what happens with memory on a project with no tracks or busses, but I do know it's significantly faster. I'd be willing to gather that memory usage data if it would help.

I think someone else was seeing slow track template save times during the 2021.12 pre-release, but I don't remember who it was.

Thanks!

Hello!

That was probably me - i'd been having some back and forth discussion with Noel and co about track template performance, but focussed more on moving tracks within them

So I hadn't actually tested saving track templates in the latest build, but i've just given it a go now.

Baseline RAM: 3.3GB

RAM on saving a drum template (comprising 99 tracks across four instances of Vienna Ensemble pro): 4.0GB

RAM having completed the track template save: 3.5GB

That save activity took 2 minutes which seems like a worsening of performance versus a previous build, but can't say for definite. In any case, it seems long to create a file that's only 12MB in size. It also would demonstrate that the issue is occuring with plugins other than Kontakt and that something isn't being released, given the memory is higher versus baseline.

I can also confirm that if save the same track template again, the usage will go even higher.

New baseline: 3.5GB

New peak: 5.5GB (very briefly, it was around 4.2GB mostly then shot-up in the last few seconds)

New post change: 3.6GB

Again this took approximately 2 mins to complete with Cakewalk frozen during this time period.

You've already got my project template if you want to debug an example file Noel

15 hours ago, Panu Pentikäinen said:

Interesting... What is your mouse model?

Maybe there's something wrong in the Logitech drivers in my setup although all other programs work just fine. Also the older Axe Edit for AxeFX II did not have this issue.

I believe it's a logitech G500s.

That's very perculiar - I haven't got Axe Edit III but regularly use Axe Edit II/Calkewalk and haven't seen that behaviour.

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Matthew Simon Fletcher Could you send a link to your template so we can try and evaluate why it takes long?

Of course Noel - will drop you a message shortly
Thanks as always.

2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Yes, there's a lot more going on behind the scenes in order for undo/redo to work properly.

There's a fair amount of bug fixes/improvements to track templates in this release, so it might be worth using smaller project templates and inserting track templates as and when you need them.

Also, don't forget about the right click context menu on tracks and folders. A lot of the time, the "Move To Folder" command is a lot more convenient than using drag/drop.

Thanks Mark - now i've updated the master project all is good anyway
Appreciate the track template improvements - I do use these in addition anyways.

1 hour ago, Wookiee said:

That seems to me to be a massive template, I would be really enlightened by why you need so many tracks in a template, my inquiring furry mind is intrigued to know why?

Thank you.

I like fusing genres so there's a a few orchestral libraries, rock/metal layout, electronics (pads/leads/bass) and all sorts of other world instruments, the VST's are split across three mini-servers via Vienna Ensemble Pro. A lot of the tracks are drums given that up-to sixteen channels can be common for some libraries. I've also got some predefined tracks for people who I collaborate often with; again saves time and means I can keep mix presets. Originally i had a seperate layout for writing and mixing but i've kinda combined them together for ease.

I'd say the actual number of active instruments/tracks will be probably a quarter of that; when I know I definitely won't use something it'll get removed. There are some professional composers though who's track counts run into the several thousands! Often because they have multiple different orchestral libraries for different moods, and these can be fiddly to set up each time from scratch so it's easy having things already there.

In the interest of keeping this thread on track, if you want more details feel free to drop me a message

The performance of my project in general is pretty good - hence why I was flagging that it seemed unusually slow to do the track moves into subfolders. This occured with both VST tracks and blank audio ones.

Great release! Delighted about nested folders.

My only observation is that it seems to be a slow process to move existing tracks into the nested folders - Cakewalk keeps hanging and it takes a minute or so to do.
Is that expected behaviour? I'd have thought this was only a simple cosmetic change but perhaps something more complicated has to go on behind the scenes to enable this functionality.

Admitedly I have a large template project of approx. 500 tracks, but was only moving 20 or so at a time.

Immediately after the following error appears:

Windows cannot access the file  for one of the following reasons: there is a problem with the network connection, the disk that the file is stored on, or the storage drivers installed on this computer; or the disk is missing. Windows closed the program Cakewalk Application because of this error.

Program: Cakewalk Application
File:

The error value is listed in the Additional Data section.
User Action
1. Open the file again. This situation might be a temporary problem that corrects itself when the program runs again.
2. If the file still cannot be accessed and
    - It is on the network, your network administrator should verify that there is not a problem with the network and that the server can be contacted.
    - It is on a removable disk, for example, a floppy disk or CD-ROM, verify that the disk is fully inserted into the computer.
3. Check and repair the file system by running CHKDSK. To run CHKDSK, click Start, click Run, type CMD, and then click OK. At the command prompt, type CHKDSK /F, and then press ENTER.
4. If the problem persists, restore the file from a backup copy.
5. Determine whether other files on the same disk can be opened. If not, the disk might be damaged. If it is a hard disk, contact your administrator or computer hardware vendor for further assistance.

Additional Data
Error value: C000000E
Disk type: 0

Upgraded and can confirm that Cakewalk is functioning fine

Edit: May actually have spoken too soon, have had three project crashes over the last hour.

@Noel Borthwick- Cakewalk didn't capture a drump but if I go into the event viewer I see this each time:

Faulting application name: Cakewalk.exe, version: 27.9.0.145, time stamp: 0x615660bb
Faulting module name: Kontakt.vst3, version: 6.6.1.139, time stamp: 0x612f7036
Exception code: 0xc0000006
Fault offset: 0x000000000068b620
Faulting process ID: 0x26e4
Faulting application start time: 0x01d7bbaf7b79d470
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\Cakewalk.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3\Kontakt.vst3
Report ID: 1dc542e1-bd68-46b0-bba0-c9b9817ca41d
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:

Shoudl I report that to Native Instruments directly?

16 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Matthew Simon Fletcher @chris.r @Jacques Boileau This is resolved in build 133. It should also automatically repair solo states for any projects that might have had issues in the past because I've improved the solo logic for tracks. Let me know if its working for you now.

Hi Noel - can confirm that's repaired it!
Fantastic work as always; i'm so grateful for your efforts on this!

Was also delighted to see:

"Optimizations to speed up project loading with projects containing high track counts."

Is that anything to do with the fact that the test case I sent over had 519? 😆

56 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

@Matthew Simon Fletcher , @Jacques Boileau - we're working on a fix for the solo issue.

In the meantime, try the following:

1. Switch on Exclusive Solo

2. Solo a different track
3. Unsolo the track
4. Switch off Exclusive Solo
5. Save your project

This should cure the issue.

Great stuff - thanks Mark, Noel and co!
Will give that a test tommorrow.

1 hour ago, Jacques Boileau said:

For me the fix was easy. I created a new track, copied audio and plugins from the offending track to it and deleted the offending solod track.

Hi Jacques - I have several hundred tracks that aren't playing, it was only a small section of guitar tracks that were playing.
Hence unfortunately that's not a viable solution here to delete either set.

5 minutes ago, Keni said:

No apology necessary. We all dance with some of the same demons? 👽

 

I hope you get your issue solved quickly!

 

Thanks friend

1 hour ago, Keni said:

Sorry. Only good intentions. Trying to help.

I'm very grateful! apologies if I didn't sound as such.

Chris.r - I personally haven't had this problem before this pre-release, but absolutely not to say that it isn't an older issue.

Sailor55- I tried a number of things such as soling/unsoloing and reloading the project but didn't find a last fix, so hence was going to go back to an earleir project version.

10 minutes ago, Keni said:

Maybe a level deeper then. An archived frozen track with solo enabled?

 

...just thinking.

I appreciate your thoughts
I don't use the archiving functionality and couldn't see anything else obvious.
I toggled the global solo button several times, so my expectation would be that that would clear anything anyway.

To be fair I do doubt myself often, so hence not raising this immediately, but when other people mentioned a similar issue, it seemed beyond coincidence and hence was more likely to be triggered by something in the newer build.

2 hours ago, Keni said:

Any chance there's a track in solo but hidden? That would create such a scenario?

Not that I could see unfortunately - also that would mean the global solo toggle button isn't working correctly.

2 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Matthew Simon Fletcher please send a project that can repro this ASAP. I’d like to investigate it before we release

Hi Noel - have dropped you a message.
Many thanks!

19 hours ago, Hung HIT said:

I updated to 2021.09 build 120. And right after that, continued to update build 123

I really like the new Export. Very fast and convenient rendering of individual tracks, but still through full FX. This is something I've been waiting for for a long time.
Many thanks team!

Currently I am having the following error:
I can't play the project without the SOLO button on for all the tracks. Same picture.

This does not happen with all projects. But this is the 2nd project that I encountered. To play the project, you must enable SOLO.

In previous updates, August and earlier, I never had this error.

Hope someone can help me fix this error, or, the next update will fix this, for example.

 

Just confirming I've also experienced this, except strangely in mine, it's only guitar that will play unless soloed!

I was wanting to do a little bit more testing given that i'd recently raised another bug that turned out not to be specific to this release!
This isn't occuring on all projects, but on the project that I have encountered it, it seems to remain if I go back to pre-release build. I was going to work around it by opening up an older working version of the project and then copying across new changes.

I can send over a project with this issue later that may help to diagnose this if you need another example?

31 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Matthew Simon Fletcher it seems unlikely to be related to this release since there aren't specific changes I know of that would impact synths, 
Can you send a pared down version of the project with steps so we can try and reproduce it?

Hi Noel,

Thanks as always.

I've just had the same issue occur now on the release build too, so as you say I think it can be ruled out. Apologies; as I say it was only occuring at first on the newer build and seemed to resolve when I went back, so hence raising it in here but that might just have been the tempremental nature of it.

I thought it was unlikely given I couldn't see anything obvious in the patch notes.

If I can reproduce this consitently i'll raise it as a general bug.

Best wishes,
Matthew

Hi guys,

I've been experiencing a strange but very significant issue using this latest batch of pre-release builds.

I have instances of Komplete Kontrol in an existing project, and for some reason I have to keep reloading these in order to hear sound.
I.e. sound occurs if I play the midi, but then won't work unless I reload the presets again. This has to be carried out on every track.

I went back to the stable build and loaded the project and this issue did not occur.
What was perculiar though was that if I inserted the instruments into a blank project using the new build, there were no issues with playback.

Could the new builds have caused some sort of change to the project file?

Best wishes,
Matthew