chris.r

So when you change the bank select method then you're getting the correct vibraphone patch but with the bank data added, followed by the phantom piano PC? Is that one also coming with bank data? I started wondering if there is any sort of a MIDI loopback in your setup?

The only other thing I can suggest is changing Bank Select Method and see if any of the 4 methods can play nicely with your setup. You can find them in the inspector far down right.

Oh boooy.. and I just updated all my AAS stuff couple days ago which resulted in many errors including duplicated as well as way too many unwanted installation paths executed by the installer that doesn't give you any way to opt out from it. That's a lot of cleaning afterwards and in case of some DAWs, like Reason, getting errors from having dupes in the main VST folder. to cleanup again or not to cleanup again... here's the question

idk, it would require some additional code added to the DAW so it could automatically perform for us tedious tasks that otherwise we can do manually... i.e. when I have a loosely recorded MIDI track that I want to turn into a perfect legato, instead of looking for a complicated DAW features I simply edit each note manually, right? easy peasy

What will happen if you delete the Patch change event from the event list, save *AS* a temporary project and reopen?

FWIK the track header midi bank/patch change overrides only the first appearance of it in the event list

Craig, now that I read your post, mentioned so often, again I started wondering if Cakewalk crashes in your case aren't from an old ProTools driver that's getting installed with it, clashing with Cakewalk. I recon reading about it some time ago, I'll try to find the right info or maybe someone will chime in with the link. EDIT: I think I've found it:

Larry Decoded

Over a year ago when I had a new, clean Win10 and Cakewalk installs, I had recurrent Cakewalk crashes when trying to copy a TTS-coupled MIDI track from one project to another with TTS-1 already loaded. I can't replicate it now, but the issues was present back then already.

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Indeed they do, so here's the hope. For me so far, after trying it at it's current state, the results are far too hard to predict. Perhaps the worst thing is that the most elementary things - the MIDI notes - are altered. The bakers took the overlap threshold approach which naturally leads to a few notes alteration here and there, instead of some less destructive reallocation of the events with the section being moved/edited. If I'm working on my own performance then it's, well, fine but if someone is paying for taking on his performance and for example rearrange and make ready to print, that's the tool to avoid for me then. You wouldn't want a single note being changed. Absolutely! Very well spotted, glad you brought it up.

If the issues with clips in Cakewalk are making someone scratch his head then, Lo and behold, here comes the new arranger track overlap threshold rules that frankly apply only when dragging, but for some reason not when cut/copy/paste and the results are far from easy to predict. I was playing a bit with it and unfortunately I'm getting more and more discouraged for the moment, it seems that something that should be kept as simple as possible turns out to be overly complicated and inefficient, a loss and loss, I don't know maybe I missed some more detailed info about it while that feature was being introduced but so far I see more disaster getting from using it rather than benefits, which is sad because once again Cakewalk is bringing something to the table, a noble idea, but in the end it may become another missed opportunity (hopefully not and I'm just momentarily too dumb for it). And I can see how others in future may take upon the idea and turn it into a properly implemented feature, and so the story goes on, Cakewalk is the first to introducing something new and exciting but it's the others who make a sensible use of it.

Now their servers might be jammed as I didn't get no a single email from them since I redeemed, created new account and even asked for an email with password reset

The issue with clips is clearly from not understanding the difference in how Cakewalk and Ableton are handling/organizing midi events in tracks. I remember Cakewalk since the times when there were dots inside the measures where we have clips pane today, just black dots. Then Cakewalk started to organize the already present events in tracks into clips - not the other way around - so there had to be some rules applied in order to make it work i.e. if there is at least one measure gap between newly added notes then they will get enclosed into separate, newly created clips, and if the gap is smaller then the added note will get enclosed automatically into the nearest clip... and so on. Ableton been established long long after there was already many changes in Cakewalk, and started up with creating a clip (region?... although that term is totally misinterpreted to me) prior to entering any events hence the difference in overall 'philosophy'

Then I'd assume that in the last picture there is a D# note missing in section 3 (taken away with section 2 and then cropped)... why?

Back to reality maybe I have another question, please let me know if I get that wrong. Here's my starting point: Here I'm getting expected results when deleting section: But when I do 'Cut' and 'Paste' the threshold rules do not apply: and when dragging the section with mouse results are yet different (the right side misbehaves): (just tell me I should stop it )

Ok, I checked again with the example that I posted above, and after I deleted Section 2, I then slip-edited the resulting two clips and: on the left I could get the cut note's length back by extending the clip end on the right I couldn't get the cut (lower) note's position back - this is an unwanted side effect - the note is permanently altered This is to show that in this example note percentage might work better than overlap thershold as the altered note would simply be moved along with the whole section. /end of digression (sorry!)

Or give the user ability to set the percentage for overlapping notes manually. Because otherwise, by using the threshold thing, there will be always, or often enough, some tweaking necessary after moving sections (I'm trying to say that this solution is naturally leading to some note changes). Last thing you'd want is to have the note lengths and start points altered. If they are unaltered then it's much more simple to move the whole notes along if necessary, after edits.

Thanks, that explains it, although it's still a non entirely expected behavior, we're talking about a note that *should get cut before the end of clip (*according to what's happening on the other side) so it's perfectly doable.. but it's fine, a matter of taste I would say For simplicity, the easiest algorithm to accomplish note association with the right section after editing would be to use the percentage of the note i.e. where the note overlaps for more than 50% of it's length there it should be left belonging (with an unaltered length/starting point)... in my non-programmer's opinion. Absolutely! Keep it simple and efficient. ?

I see now, with the hotfix 93, the changes when deleting an arranger section with ripple edit on. Still got question regarding the note that I've highlighted. Here's my starting point: I have non-destructive editing and split midi notes on, and the overlap threshold set to 1/8 so when I select and delete Section 2 both, the note below on the left, and above on the right are within that window and should be left untouched, and the other two cut at the Section 2 boundaries (right on bar 2 and 3). But only the right side notes are handled properly, on the left see the highlighted note, shouldn't that one be cut precisely at bar 2? Actually the same happens without Ripple Edit, see the note on the left, if I get it correctly it should get cut earlier (because it didn't fall within the overlap threshold window), like the note below on the right, no? Please post some explanation if I'm getting it wrong. Thx

I updated WC and now I'm getting "Failed to execute script WavesLocalServer" when launching Cakewalk. What is it so difficult for them to make a stable version since V12 came out?

The odd moments when Larry is posting quicker than a given download managers deliver updates.

Acha! I see it now, some banks are still on v1, some are v2 and a few now at v3 like 'microsound textures'. Thanks Erik.

Also some weird stuff going on here when working with keyboard. After I selected Section 2, I click Delete on the keyboard, then I undo, now clicking Delete does nothing. When I switch to another program and then back to Cakewalk, clicking Delete again now deletes according to selection rules and not to the Arranger Track rules (only both highlighted notes on the right are deleted).

A bug or intended? 1. Here I have set the threshold to 1/8 2. Watch the shorter note on the left, it's within the 1/8 threshold and longer above not. When I select Section 2 and press delete, the longer note gets truncated to match the shorter note's end time, and not at the Section/selection start... is that intended? On the right side everything seems ok (lower note split at Section end). 3. Now everything behaves yet differently when I engage Ripple edit, as per picture below. Notes from right side are handled correctly. On the left, the long note is now cut at the Section start as expected but the short note is also cut and not left untouched (remember it was within the 1/8 threshold window).