Larry Jones

@Xoo: Thanks!

41 minutes ago, Byron Dickens said:

I seriously doubt they wanted the password for your email account.

Probably not. Most likely just some amateurish dialog design. Up to that point "we" weren't talking about opening an account (at least I wasn't). Also, I was joking.

I guess I'm not Next material. None of the thumbnails in the Captcha challenge were clickable, so I switched to the text challenge. I made it past "Is a camel an air-breathing invertebrate," but then it wanted my email address and password. So I withdrew.

HERE IS THE UPDATE, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ TO THE END: I goofed around trying to isolate a plugin that was causing this mysterious (to me) crashing to desktop, not on every project, but on some, seemingly random projects. I opened a ticket with support, described the problem as best I could, sent a minidump, and was told to uninstall/reinstall Cakewalk by Bandlab. To me, this is like being told to make sure my computer is plugged in, but I went ahead and followed instructions, including registry tweaks, and accomplished nothing except the loss of ten years worth of customizations. So no help from support.

But here's the problem, and the fix: There's an old version of Breverb 2 that was bundled with SONAR, and a newer version. If you have old projects calling the old version of Breverb 2 and you try to open them in a new version of CbB, the project will crash the program at the end of the load process. Start your project in safe mode, delete Breverb and save the project. You can then close the project, reopen it and add Breverb back, if you have the new version of Breverb (v2.0.10.0 64bit). Save again and you should be good. These are the steps I took, and they fixed my problem. I think the newer version of Breverb 2 was shipped with CbB in 2018. It may not be necessary to have the newest version of Breverb, as long as you have the version that is called when loading a project.

I have marked this issue "solved" in the title, and also changed the title a little to make it easier to find. Finally, I would like to report that in this case Cakewalk tech support not only didn't help me, but actually added additional headaches to my situation, and then started to ignore me.

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Original Post

Recently my Cakewalk by Bandlab has been crashing to the desktop when trying to open a project. This happens at the end of the opening routine, and there is no error message. I got a new PC (specs in my sig) recently, and this happens, I believe, only when trying to open projects that predate the transition. Newer projects still open and work normally.

To figure this out, I opened a couple of projects in safe mode. I thought the issue might be due to an ancient amp sim (Guitar Rig 3) that I have used a lot in the past and which I installed on my new system but could not activate, so I disabled that and let everything else load. But result was the same, so I repeated the safe mode process, this time not loading any plugins. The project opened, but most of the instruments are plugins, and all the tracks have effects, so the piece of music was barely recognizable and the project must have around 50 plugins.

So I'm wondering if anyone knows a faster way to troubleshoot this than repeatedly opening in safe mode, enabling one more plugin each time. That's what I'm gonna be doing, but if anyone has an idea about how I might speed up the process, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks!

2 hours ago, Canopus said:

I don’t know who Taylor is, but he must be a pretty, pretty important guy over at BandLab, having his own subdomain and all.

1 hour ago, HIBI said:

Sorry this is unrelated to the topic, however, for what is the subdomain taylor.cakewalk.com I see occasionally these days? Just curious, but I'm curious...

There is also a "gaga.cakewalk..." subdomain. I'm seeing a pattern here, with subdomains named after high-profile female rock stars. Might be some fanboys on the technical team. 😎

I stopped trying to do this five years ago, after a week of frustrated attempts. CbB may have "fixed" this issue since then, but if so I don't know about it. (Fixed is in quotes because, after all, CbB is not meant for video editing, so the developers probably don't think it needs to have more video capabilities.) I would advise using a video editing program, and bringing the audio in there from CbB. When you get your video editing done and synced to the audio, render it from there.

Good luck!

EDITED TO ADD: If you're wanting to create music, dialog, FX to the picture, @Lord Tim's suggestion is the way to go, but your workflow won't be the most efficient.

1 hour ago, JohnnyV said:

Do you see the word Forever in that statement?  I don't. I just see the word After.  After and forever have different meanings. 

I was kind of hoping it would be "forever," but not really expecting it.🙃 Piecing together the various snippets of vague comments from staff, and with the knowledge that they are going to be releasing a DAW that is very similar to CbB (so why would they compete with themselves with a free alternative to their new DAWs?), as well as that thing about the mandatory six-month reactivation, I am operating on the theory that I will have to retire CbB (the final free version) within six months or so of the Sonar/Next release. This is conjecture on my part, but I have to think about a future without CbB, and figure out how I want to continue making music.

All that said, I think it would have been better (for my emotional well-being) if Bandlab had not made their big announcement such a long time in advance of actual product readiness. I would have posted here on a Friday (and sent out a few press releases) "We have fabulous new products you can buy right now, and you have six months to use the old free product." Those six months could have been like the past six months, only with real products to review and discuss, instead of this fever swamp of speculations, unanswerable questions, teasers and confusion.

And I say this notwithstanding Mark's statement that there are "no immediate plans" to prevent reactivation. This is not the same as saying "we'll support reactivation as long as the user base wants."

3 hours ago, msmcleod said:

There are no immediate plans to prevent re-activation of the final 2023.09 version of CbB. Part of the reason for the delay in releasing 2023.09 is because we needed the new activation server to work with both Sonar (a paid product) and CbB... but it will stop re-activating at some point in the future.

4 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

Bottom line is Cakewalk by Bandlab's final release will be out very soon, and won't be going away in the near future

I thought the final version of Cakewalk by Bandlab will be around only until it needs reactivation, which will be six months. Isn't that what @Noel Borthwick has said?

On 9/14/2023 at 10:32 AM, Starship Krupa said:

I'm sure it will still have Drum Replacer, VocalSync, Plug-In Load Balancing, and the Pow-r dithering options, but what about bundled plug-ins?

I'm assuming that, minimum, all the bundled plugins from past years that may or may not be locked to SONAR or CbB will work with New Sonar. I have a lot of 'em, and I use them regularly.

On 3/6/2021 at 10:09 PM, bitflipper said:

BTW, in this podcast, Noel says the BandLab user base is 29 million. Not all of those are Cakewalk users, but holy crap, that's a LOT of people. That's about equivalent to the entire population of Texas.

Have you explored the Bandlab metaverse? They are beatmakers and "producers." They can't sing or play an instrument. They are vague about what genre of music they are doing, so it's difficult to find like-minded potential collaborators. Except for the ones who are hired to demonstrate the app, they are the rankest of amateurs. I know my musical tastes are old fashioned, but the only things I've found there that I like is the stuff done by CbB users, right here on this forum. With that many users, of course, you'd expect it to be tough to find folks you'd actually want to work with, but to me, it looks like 29 million people, doing not much of anything.

On 9/11/2023 at 2:52 PM, Brian A Menear said:

i would gladly pay for it even if it was a few hundred$$.

Don't talk like that! They're still deciding on the price. Better to say "I couldn't afford it if it were more than 50 bucks."

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

2 hours ago, Larry Jones said:

@Noel BorthwickWhy not just say what the price will be? From this remark, it seems as if you know.

Because we don't. It has to be officially discussed and approved by the CEO and upper management. Its not my call so please be patient and wait for the due process to be completed.

I don't remember how much I paid for my early versions of Pro Audio and SONAR, but it seems to me the top numbers for the full versions were in the neighborhood of $400. To say Sonar will not cost that much doesn't actually say much. Obviously, disclosure is not my call, either. Can't help being curious, though, as one must prepare for the future, even if it might mean acquiring a new (different) DAW.

On 9/7/2023 at 12:13 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

The price would be very affordable so there is really no need for panic. (less than what anyone paid for SONAR platinum)

@Noel BorthwickWhy not just say what the price will be? From this remark, it seems as if you know.

2 hours ago, Grem said:

Bingo!! I was gonna tell him to use "Apply Trimming"

I've never had this particular use case, but I probably will some day, so... If I "apply trimming" the DAW will permanently delete the unwanted portions of the clips?

17 minutes ago, Doug Steinschneider said:

When we cut a 3-4 minute songs into new projects it copies the original 30 minute  .wav file for the tracks to the new project.

I suggest you make your cuts, export the resultant stems, create a new project (with a new name) and import the stems there. Repeat as needed for each of the "new" songs. I'm surprised this didn't get answered in the main Cakewalk forum. Good luck!

On 6/7/2023 at 1:21 PM, Lord Tim said:

The flagship product of the Cakewalk company was an application called SONAR Platinum.

I've been reading this thread for days and you're the first to note that "Sonar" is not the same as "SONAR." Thanks for saving me from having to write a pedantic post taking note of this (probably meaningless) distinction. Or is it meaningless? Perhaps we need clarification from @Meng...

Seriously, a video editing program is the best way to do this. I use Vegas, because video is video, and CbB is an audio workstation. So I don't know much about how to work with video in CbB, but there are some entries in the official documentation PDF (1,942 pages). You can find it for downloading at the top of any page in this forum, under "Cakewalk by Bandlab|Reference Guide PDF." Search the PDF for "export video" and good luck with this.

On 4/1/2023 at 3:56 AM, msmcleod said:

IRC Sonar 8 came with Guitar Rig 3 LE, and Sonar X1 came with Guitar Rig 4 LE.

Sonar 8.5 was an upgrade to Sonar 8 which came with the Project 5 FX suite and Session Drummer 3.  I don't think there were any changes to Guitar Rig 3.

So if you've got a non LE version of Guitar Rig 3, you've likely clicked on an upgrade button at some point, something else has installed or upgraded it for you, or it is actually the LE version, but it just doesn't say "LE" in the title.

I skipped X1, so I'm dealing only with GR3.

On my current system (which I am still setting up) if I try to load Guitar Rig 3, it comes up as "Guitar Rig 3 Demo" (Not 'LE'). I don't recall actually installing it while I was installing all my old versions of SONAR,  but it does appear as a plugin in CbB, and it wants a serial number. I do have the serial number, which is printed on the DVD paper sleeve inside the SONAR 8 box, but there is nowhere on the Native Instruments website to enter said number -- it acts as if I don't have GR3 installed, possibly because they'd prefer that I buy their latest version. I contacted NI and they first warned me that it probably wouldn't work and they wanted no responsibility for what might go wrong, but they sent me a link to  Google Drive where there was supposed to be a way to install GR3. I do not have access to the Drive because I am registered at NI with a non-Google email address. I have asked them to try another way but they have not responded.

I have come to the conclusion (just guessing) that when they use the term "installed" they are talking about a specialized meaning, to wit, "physically installed on my system and registered as such in their system." So when they sent me a link (inaccessible to me) to "install" GR3, I think they were trying to get it "installed" in such a way that I could see it in my NI account online and enter the serial number.

Back before I moved to a new computer, I don't recall ever seeing "LE" in the GR3 interface, but I know I never intentionally tried to upgrade it. However the plugin worked fine on the old Win 10 system, so if NI ever lets me activate it I'm hoping it will work on the new Win 10 system.

Thanks, Mark, for jumping in on this.

On 3/16/2023 at 6:20 PM, Starship Krupa said:

One that I have been having fun with is CRMBL

Website has '99-ish Tripod feel. No blinking text, though...

9 hours ago, Keni said:

Cunning ways of getting old plugins (I’ve been doing this for a long time) installers?

Hey Keni! Let me know if and how you get the freebie Guitar Rig 3 working on your new setup. I just moved to a new/used PC and it comes up as a demo that needs serial number activation.

14 hours ago, OutrageProductions said:

GR3 did require a serial number and it was posted in the old Cakewalk Command Center in your account with the download links to all of your purchased products. If you no longer have access to that portal, you may be out of luck.

Thanks for your response. I do have access to my old account. Guitar Rig 3 is not mentioned anywhere there, but I do have the plugin. It was installed when I installed my old versions of SONAR. Pretty sure I won't find download links in Command Center since SONAR 8/8.5 was not a downloadable product.  I didn't notice exactly which version GR3 came with, but I did not purchase it (so it must have come with some earlier version of SONAR), and I've been using it for years.

Today I fired up Producer 8 and Producer 8.5, thinking maybe the plugin needed to see the "parent" app and would then activate itself, but no luck. GR3 is available in both versions, but as a demo version that needs a serial number. As I mentioned in my original post,  Native Instruments is pretending GR3 doesn't exist. In fact, the "Click here to activate" splash screen leads to a Native Instruments Service Center page that doesn't connect to anything. My account at NI shows numerous products I have purchased from them, but not GR3 (or any other Guitar Rig version).

I found a serial number for Guitar Rig 3 LE, but NI does not accept that one. I have contacted them from their support form to see if they'll help. Fingers crossed.

How can I activate Guitar Rig 3 (not GR LE)? I got it with SONAR years ago and just got a new (used) PC for a DAW. I installed all my old versions of SONAR and got many (most?) of the old "free" plugins. Guitar Rig 3, however, came along, but opens as a time-limited demo and wants to be activated with a serial number. I don't recall ever having a serial number for it. There's nothing about it in Command Center and the Native Instruments website is pretending this plug doesn't exist. I know about the free Guitar Rig 6, but for various reasons I prefer this old sim.

Is this what you're looking for?

Thank you @Starship Krupa and @John Vere,

I resorted to an online chat with Focusrite support. This forum has always been the best place to get real-world help, and over the years I've tried not to abuse that privilege, so I spent the day trying to fix this myself, then posted the issue here.  Usually I don't get any real help from the manufacturer, but at least I get to log the issue. This time, however, the tech seemed mystified by my problem, then went right to the fix:

That little box in the Windows sound settings had to be unchecked. Kind of counterintuitive, and I'm not sure when I checked the box, since I only noticed this issue yesterday. But maybe because I've been recording two new projects while still in the midst of setting up my "new" used computer I just didn't notice a little latency.🙃 Anyway, I'm happy now, and I still say Focusrite MixControl must have been designed in hell, but A.J. at Focusrite Support is the Man.

5 minutes ago, John Vere said:

I do believe if you have never changed anything in Mix control then you have been using direct monitoring all along.  

Hi @John Vere!
Great to hear from you and no, I never use direct monitoring. How do I know for sure? When I am all set up to record guitar, I can't hear it unless I activate Input Echo on the track I want to record. 16ms of latency is roughly equivalent to standing on stage 16 feet in front of your amp. I can do that, and have, many times. I am beginning to think something has happened to the hardware itself for this problem to present itself now after years of using this device. By the way, this is a 1st gen Scarlett 6i6. They don't even make it anymore, and MixControl doesn't come with any of the new Focusrite interfaces. If you don't have a 1st gen 6i6, you're not seeing the same thing I'm seeing.

Here's some more fun information on this issue: I noticed that I could still hear an instrument plugged into the interface even if CbB was not loaded. After trying all the software changes I could find in Focusrite MixControl as well as in Windows settings, I turned off the speakers, turned off the Scarlett 6i6 and unplugged it for 30 seconds, just as the lever one tech support guy on the phone always tells you to do. When I turned everything back on, it was working as it's supposed to! I don't want to monitor anything unless I specifically set that track to input echo, and that's how it was working! Yay!! But I loaded a project, played it one time, and the problem returned.

I checked all my hidden tracks to see if one of them had input echo on, but no. So I'm back to Square One. In the Good Old Days I might have seen this as a shopping opportunity, but I'm broker than I've ever been, so I really hope I won't be forced to replace this thing.