AxlBrutality

Nice; thank you! Now I just need to debate whether or not spending $65 on TruePianos is worth it, or what other comparable alternatives there are. Off to post in the Effects sub.....this thread has gotten waaaay off topic lol.

Oh snap; really? So, just to clarify...all of the licensing in my XLN account is 100% intact even if I uninstall Legacy? I literally just got around to sending an email to XLN support asking about it; I didn't know the forums here would be faster lol. Thanks!

Honestly, I'm not sure how worth it it is to most of us or to Bandlab, although it may be appealing to potential new users. I think a lot of us have since moved on and found other plugins and instruments that are decent to stellar. The only reason I keep SPLAT/"Legacy" installed is for my XLN license for AD2 (which I could easily just go purchase outright if need be, honestly) and for LP EQ (which is fantastic [though a bit resource heavy], and unfortunately the aforementioned OpenGL issues prevent me from blowing $100-200 on FabFilter...which is also OpenGL driven and has actually had some of the same problems for a small subset of their users). I do utilize TruePianos and SI Strings once in a while, but that's really only because I'm too cheap to buy something else (and I also am stubborn and don't like to take chances on new things). Although I think SI strings is included in the Bandlab version anyway? I can't remember. Other than that, it wouldn't really break my heart if Bandlab didn't bring any of that stuff back. I never used about half of it (including things like Rapture), and there are so many other options these days.

@Noel Borthwick Yup; PM'd you.

Hey, wait a minute. Are you guys talking about the effects menu that comes up when you right-click the FX Bin to insert a plugin? I don't have different colored fonts to distinguish between VST2 and VST3 (or 32/64 bit, for that matter); this would be extremely helpful...as I usually have to guess.

@Noel Borthwick, I don't know if it was this release or last release where you felt you had quashed the "parameter recall" issue, where plugin parameters would jumble or be reset when reopening projects or copying plugins to new tracks....but I've come across that issue with a plugin I recently purchased (JST Toneforge Jason Richardson). JST has been in touch finally and indicated they believe it to be an issue on Cakewalk's end. I did report it to you guys as well, but didn't know if you'd come across it. I advised JST to reach out to you with their findings, just fyi....so I guess it's up to them to do so. Having said that, they said they are releasing a new version "soon" which has different ways of dealing with parameters, and they believe it to be functioning okay in CbB. So I'm not sure how much it will matter (or how much they care), but it would probably be good to figure out in case the issue ever comes up again with other plugins (or remains the same with this one).

Hey there! I see it; I'll reply a bit later this morning....kindof dealing with a household crisis this morning, but I wanted to let you know I did see it and am not blowing you off.

Oh, haha...that's a bit easier/better than the way I looked up. I was literally looking in the system folder where the logs are actually stored...hence the "mile long list of files that might as well be in Russian" comment. I will keep that in mind going forward! I don't plan on doing a lot of recording over the next week or two (which is when it seems to occur the most), but that will definitely be included in my diagnostics from here on out. Thank you (in general), and thanks for helping me help you and everyone else better.

@Robert Bone Bios is up to date, according to my Intel utility (Edit: MSI utility confirms). I do recall having a couple of BIOS updates after I replaced my HDD a few months ago. I also haven't tweaked anything in there. I actually haven't ever looked at the Windows Event Viewer....had to look up where to even find it. I don't recall the exact time frame the last random/memory-based crash occurred (sometime last week, but I don't recall the day), and the event list for the last couple of weeks is a mile long. I can check it next time I have a similar crash, now that I know about it and to look at it. Is there a particular type of event I'm looking for? Shit all might as well all be in Russian as far as I'm concerned, lmao.

Here's the thing....my video cards have been newer cards. Not brand new, but not exactly old-timers either. My laptop (the one that's currently my workstation) has both a recent-build NVIDIA GTX 1050ti and an Intel UHD 630, both with updated drivers [I've tried running these plugs on both cards, to no avail). My wife's desktop (which was formerly my workstation and had the same problems) has a slightly older NVIDIA GTX 1050. (All of those cards also apparently support up to OpenGL 6 or whatever it is now, which supposedly had cleared out a lot of these problems [from what I've read....but we're starting to get into territory that I don't know much about]). Also, unfortunately, due to my laptop being a laptop, and my wife's desktop being a small form factor prebuilt gaming rig (with power and physical space limits because MSI prebuilts suck), I have minimal ability to upgrade any of these cards. It's a possibility, but idk. Might just be time to go back to ASUS rigs...I never had any issues like this with ASUS motherboards or ASUS-versioned NVIDIA cards. (Both these computers are MSI rigs.) I'm not a computer geek though, so again, I only half know what I'm talking about if we go much deeper here. My computer knowledge is better than some, but nowhere near where it probably should be at this point. Lol. Edit: I've done some deeper digging, and it appears that a few Fabfilter users have experienced these issues for years without a resolution, and Fabfilter also continues to use OpenGL anyway. All seem to point to OpenGL conflicts with NVIDIA cards specifically, but as you mentioned, it's been a very small subset of people...most people even with NVIDIA cards seem to not have issues. Strange.

@Noel Borthwick Fair enough, and thanks for all the explanation and clearing the air. We're good. That really does suck, though. I guess I'm off to find comparable (and hopefully not expensive) plugins, and to try to somehow avoid plugins that use OpenGL. Honestly, I'm just glad I have some sort of closure after about a year of wondering about/fighting with this.

Just fyi, I have been provided with a few key updates today, which I have highlighted in green in the OP. @Robert Bone Windows, audio/video drivers, etc....as well as Bandlab (through the most recent hotfix) are all up to date. I am actually painfully meticulous and obsessive about keeping my machine, OS, etc. updated (as well as keeping the disk cleaned and the SSD trimmed). Also should probably note that I did a clean install a few months ago of both Legacy and CbB, along with all of my plugins and such. (I had an HDD failure, and took the opportunity to swap a Solid State drive...so I had to fresh install everything, including my OS.) No major tweaks to Windows other than basic stuff: power options (nothing ever turns off or goes to sleep), "active hours" for updates and maintenance are set to make sure none of that happens when I'm working, and I turn Windows Defender's realtime protection off when I'm working (so as to not have it operational in the background). I also have select suspend for USB ports disabled. Lastly, I have OneDrive (among most other useless programs) uninstalled and have no other antivirus besides WD. I run a pretty clean and updated machine, and make sure as little as possible runs in the background. But I also don't tweak too much that's over my head, and while I do have some limited overclocking ability with this machine, I haven't touched any of that.

Thank you for the details and explanation of what's going on. I wasn't really passed any of that info by the official support channel, only that you had recently finally found a possible cause and it could be on the plugin end, but it wasn't confirmed and you were still investigating. No offense, and maybe I'm misreading your tone here as a bit condescending, but no one has actually confirmed that until you did, just now. Everything in this thread has been speculation...and as mentioned, I wasn't passed any info from CbB customer support other than y'all might have found a potential cause (this was about two weeks ago) and that it appeared to be on the vendor end, but that y'all were still investigating and trying to contact Slate. (And that was after a year of me complaining about it and sending in reports, for the record.) I was given a bunch of language/code to pass along to Slate in case they ever decided to finally get back to me, but I have no idea what I'm looking at there. I'm not a developer. Don't get me wrong...I don't care whose "fault" it is, nor do I have any allegiances here. I just know I can't use several of my favorite plugins, and haven't been able to for a year. (I also didn't bump this thread, which is months old, btw...although I have made references to this problem in general in newer threads because it is a huge source of frustration). I'd also like to note that it was Slate and Melda who were vehement that I test it in Reaper or another DAW, and then neither ever got back to me again after I reported that it worked fine there. I don't know what that's all about, just how it looks. It's not the first time multiple companies have pointed at Cakewalk and then abandoned me...which is why, as I've mentioned to you recently, I prefer to just come to you now regardless of the program in the hopes that you have a professional repertoire with whatever company we're dealing with. Again, I do appreciate the work and the communication. Do you have any idea if JUCE would be working on a fix, and if that would manifest in updates with Slate, Melda, etc. and their plugins? Or are these all pretty much useless plugins for the foreseeable future, and I need to just abandon them and move on (barring some magic from you guys)?

Interesting...it's still listed within the Slate All Access package in the Gobbler application, so I figured there was an actual problem. That would certainly explain things (the whole "no longer being authenticated by my accounts" issue). I wonder why Gobbler didn't get the memo. One issue down. Although, as mentioned, I've never used S-Gear and didn't plan to...so it wasn't a huge deal. Just an annoyance when scanning VSTs and trying to refresh licenses. Thank you!

Allow me to preface this by saying these issues have been reported through the official support channels, as well as to some plugin manufacturers where necessary. Anyway, I seem to be particularly good at encountering and/or uncovering strange bugs and behaviors. They vary in importance/severity for me, though everyone's workflow is different and they may affect others who encounter them more or less. Some of them have been ongoing issues for close to a year and have been recreated on multiple computers, while others I ran into as recently as this morning. Some have had no headway made on investigation; others have known or suspected causes but no solutions yet (obviously). Some may not be Cakewalk issues, some are. The purpose of putting this thread together is a) to see if others are having the same issues and if anyone has potential solutions of their own, b) visibility, to let others who are encountering these or similar issues know they are not alone (and to provide them with information in the future, if solutions are found and they encounter issues in the future), c) to draw attention to them in general, and d) to maybe generate random discussion surrounding various issues. Feel free to ask for more information, provide suggestions, CC anyone you may think might be able to chime in, etc. I'll admit that while I've been a member of this community for many years, I have been mostly quiet unless I have a major, work-stoppage-level bug and/or am really pissed off. Lol. I would like to change that. Warning: Long post. -Cakewalk's VST Scan throws error when encountering Melodyne VST2 Encountered this one this morning out of the blue. I've chosen the option to disable the plugin each time and continue, since I don't currently use Melodyne. Screenshot of Error: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn0fz2h8c3r73hr/Melodyne Scan Error.png?dl=0 -Cakewalk's VST Scan freezes and hangs indefinitely when encountering Melodyne VST3 Also encountered this one this morning. No idea what causes it, but it renders me unable to complete any new VST scans. I have a fresh dump file if a member of support sees this and wants it, though I've already sent one in. -JST Toneforge Jason Richardson fails to recall/jumbles plugin parameters a) when reopening project and b) often when copying plugin to a new track. Encountered this just this week right after purchasing it. No known cause, happens about 99% of the time, happens with both purchase version and the updated version. The plugin parameters/settings don't just reset to default; they actually get weirdly/randomly jumbled. JST was rather dismissive when I first contacted them, and in fact their social media told me they don't recommend Cakewalk as a DAW. Update: I just received an email from JST support...they can't reproduce the issue and are pointing back at Cakewalk's known struggles with plugin parameter recall. Update 2: JST support was able to reproduce some of the issues, but their workarounds aren't working for me. According to them, there seems to be issues on Cakewalk's end with recognizing and saving parameter changes. They also claim that an update to Toneforge is coming soon that, among other things, redefines how it handles parameter changes...and they claim that it has been tested with favorable results in CbB. I'm trying to facilitate direct conversation between CbB and JST as well; we'll see how that goes. -Slate Virtual Tape Machines, Eiosis DeEsser, MeldaProductions MAutoPitch, LP EQ, and LP MB all fail to fully load GUI and freeze/hang Cakewalk when attempting to do so. This has been ongoing for nearly a year. All plugins work fine when tested in Reaper. VTM will occasionally load GUI, but will hang CbB the moment it gets closed. Eiosis will only partially load GUI, and will hang CbB when closed. MAutoPitch is the worst offender, instantly hanging Cakewalk when opened. LP EQ and LP MB, which had similar/the same issues, have been solved by editing the config files, changing the OpenGL value from 1 to 0. Cakewalk support discovered an issue with one of them (I believe it was VTM) not responding to a GUI command, but I haven't heard anything else since. I have fresh (as of this morning) dump files for the MAutoPitch, VTM, and Eiosis hangs, if support sees this and wants them. Just say something and I'll PM them. Update: Noel has just given a full confirmation and explanation of these problems and the situation here: https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/4083-major-freezinghanging-issues-with-an-interesting-cause-and-no-obvious-solution-any-ideas/&do=findComment&comment=82296 Slate S-Gear refuses to recognize Gobbler or iLok Authentication during VST Scan New as of this morning. Haven't paid much attention to it, and just skip the authentication process (because I don't use S-Gear). Update: Apparently S-Gear is no longer a part of Slate/Slate's All Access Bundle, explaining the expired license/refusal to authenticate. Not sure why it still appears in Gobbler as a part of the bundle. -Random Crashes...particularly when recording, and usually when CbB has been open for an extended amount of time (longer than a half hour)... Sometimes it hangs and I can create a dump file. Other times it just closes out completely with no errors or hangs. What's particularly alarming, however, is that NO activity from the session is saved, even with autosave enabled and working and manual saves also done throughout the session. And no recovery copy is attempted to be made 95% of the time. I've lost hours of work due to this. I was able to create a dump file for CbB support recently, and while it's fairly random, they believe it to be a memory corruption or leak of some sort...particularly when Cakewalk is writing the waveform. That's all I know right now. I think that's it for now. There were actually about a half dozen others that weren't big deal to me, so I never said anything, but they were actually finally fixed in the last couple of updates (shout out to @Noel Borthwick and company for their work...the ASIO buzzing during rapid start/stop of playback was actually pretty annoying). I apologize and can't help but think maybe attention would have brought to them sooner if I had spoken up as well. I will try to be a more productive member of this community and more helpful to support from here on out (hence threads like this). I'd also like to give a shout-out to @Starship Krupa and @Robert Bone for their attempts at helping with a few of these issues, and their patience with my frustration at times. I suppose that's all for now. Cheers, y'all.

All three plugins with this issue (Slate VTM, Eiosis DeEsser (distributed by Slate), and MeldaProductions MAutoPitch) test fine in Reaper. That was actually the first thing Slate asked me to do when I contacted them almost a year ago. (Unfortunately, after reporting that, I never heard back from them.) I have yet to update the Melda plugin; will do that at some point. Cakewalk support recently indicated they had found an issue with a response to a GUI command with VTM, but I haven't heard anything since (that was about a week ago). I am currently in the process of gathering all my bugs (these and more...I encountered yet another one this morning), recreating all of the dump files, and putting together one massive bug report...which I will post in a separate, condensed, updated thread so as to maybe help others as well.

Unfortunately, the plugin won't even fully load the GUI, and freezes (and hangs CbB) before I can do anything. Also, the 64-bit double precision engine is turned off.

@Lord Tim Thanks; yea, I've heard lots of good shit about AA...just kinda wanted some confirmation their stuff works well in CbB. I'm actually taking a pretty hard look at the Dominator and the Hellbeast. For sure. I actually own a whole bunch of Ownhammer IRs, which are absolutely stellar IMO. I usually run their Mesa and Deizel cabs opposite of each other for rhythms and get a pretty heavy tone, and their Mesa and EDVH cabs work great for leads. They've worked great with the 6505 in Peavey Revalver, but Revalver hasn't had much support for a few years, is more difficult to dial in, it's older and can be quite noisy, and...outside of the 6505...it doesn't have a whole lot of options for modern extreme metal. I also just got an email last night stating Revalver actually just got sold, so who knows what's gonna happen with it or what changes will be made. I feel like it's just time to maybe move on to something newer and better geared towards what I do. That was my plan with Toneforge, which I actually love, but like I said Toneforge isn't playing very well with CbB right now and we haven't been able to debug it yet. Yea, Toneforge is the same way. It's a common complaint, but I think people (particularly musicians, as opposed to engineers) expect these things to be more "plug and play" than they are, can be, or should be. Appreciate the input! EDIT: Oh man, shoulda bought it last night; missed my chance at the $5 sale. Lol.

Ironically, I started grouping everything together in one VST folder in what was an attempt at cleaning up and having some better file management. Lol. I had no idea about some of these issues. Seems I have a ton of housekeeping to do in the morning. Not gonna lie; I'll jump for joy if that's the issue with both the VST2 and VST3 versions of Toneforge. Unfortunately, the issues with my other plugins are actually a GUI/OpenGL problem that's proven difficult to resolve, and is unlikely to be a permissions issue. I'll respond more in-depth to your PM tomorrow (I'm headed to bed) and expand on that and some other things. Cheers!

Joey develops some bada** plugins for sure, and he's super in-tune with what the extreme metal community in particular wants and needs. Unfortunately, this isn't the first time, nor the first circumstance in which, I (and other users) have had issues with him, his tech support, or his social media team. In fact, there have been major blowups in his Facebook groups over the last couple of years that have led to him being called out by a lot of people...and ultimately led to some of the biggest contributors in his community leaving and never coming back. Creating presets doesn't seem to work on my end, no. I was actually kindof hoping that it's the same parameter recall issue that has been addressed (as a side note, funnily enough, I never experienced that issue), since that would mean it's already had a lot of work and attention devoted to it and there would already kinda be a starting point. But yea, I have no idea if it's related or the same thing (though it does seem like it). Just kinda frustrating dropping $50 on a plugin that can barely be used. Especially one that I actually really like, and I was hoping to fully transition away from my old amp sim (Revalver). I'm a creature of habit and tend to get comfortable, and I hate change. So when I take a chance and try something new, that's kindof a big step for me...and when I get burned right out of the gate, it kinda reinforces my unwillingness to try new things or take chances, ya know? Add that to some other issues I'm having with some of my favorite plugins, and I'm in the middle of a project which has been stalled with various Cakewalk and third-party vendor issues, and then on top of that everything my life isn't going the greatest in general right now (and working on music is usually my escape from that)....I'm just kinda in a miserable spot. I don't even want to power on my workstation at this point, and that shouldn't ever happen. Music is supposed to be joy, not an additional source of frustration or a chore.

https://audioassault.mx Have been wanting to experiment with some different amp sims after getting a little tired of Peavey Revalver. Love the sound of JST's Toneforges, but have been having issues getting them to play well in Cakewalk. In the meantime, I keep coming across this "Audio Assault" company and everyone seems to love them. But I haven't seen much in the way of CbB, specifically, usage/compatibility confirmation from the field...and my Toneforge experience has made me wary of dropping cash on amp sims for CbB right now. Additionally, considering AA is a very small company and their sims are dirt cheap (some are constantly on sale for only like $5, and I've found in general you often "get what you pay for" with amp sims), I was kinda looking for some peace of mind. Any metalheads out there have any sims (or plugins in general) from these guys? (Or, is anyone willing to spend $5 and be a guinea pig? Lmao.)

No problem; I understand....life has thrown quite a bit at me lately as well, so I get having a full plate. I've sent in full reports to both Cakewalk and JST as well, though JST is being...less than helpful and seems to have some animosity towards Cakewalk/Cakewalk users. Either way, I've tried to cover all my bases. I've also spent a few hours of my own trying to trigger new behavior or find solutions, to no avail. For now, I just have to remember my settings and reapply them across like 8 tracks each and every time I work on this project.

@Jonathan SasorI also want to mention (apologies for the double post, but this is kindof an entirely separate sentiment/thought): Many years ago, when I was in audio school, ProTools was still the absolute king and was thought to be the only real "professional" option. Logic was close behind, although it was slightly more limited and geared more towards specific kinds of music production. Sonar was light years ahead of anyone else in a lot of ways, and I strongly felt that out of everyone, it was next in line and the only real challenger. I was one of Sonar's biggest champions, and I pushed the program to everyone I knew. Even through some of its issues, I felt that way until just a few years ago. And to this day, Sonar/CbB is still, in my opinion, the best combination of ease-of use ("consumer friendly") and capability (for advanced/"power" users). However, years of mismanagement and poor marketing by various parent companies...along with a history of bugs and instability...relegated Cakewalk to nothing more than an afterthought to most in the industry. Sometimes, even less than an afterthought. Now, many plugin manufacturers don't even test their stuff in Cakewalk, and brush off users who have issues in it. It's sad. Cakewalk had (and still has) so much potential, but has been steamrolled over by products such as Cubase and, more recently, Studio One (which is gaining a TON of popularity)...and even Reaper. Support for Cakewalk has all but disappeared...which I'm sure makes y'all's job more difficult, but imagine how some of us longtime loyalists feel. So of course, we're gonna be incredibly frustrated at times...not getting help from anyone (either by design from plugin companies, or because of a lack of resources on Cakewalk's part). And I still fear that being a "free" product....bankrolled by Bandlab and subject to its whim and the financial state of its ownership and their other products/cookie jars, has its dangers. And I'm still concerned for its future and the state of the DAW itself. I've mentioned it before, but I...like many other users...would have no problem paying for the product to see it flourish.

Um....so grouping all of one's plugins (both VSt2 and VST3) together in Program Files/Cakewalk/VSTPlugins isn't a great idea? Asking for a friend. Also, thanks for the info; I was not aware of any of that.

I just want to mention that this is a very frustrating part of it all for many of of us. I've mentioned it elsewhere, but Cakewalk isn't held in very high regards by some vendors/publishers/plugin devs. And unfortunately, some of them are pretty big players on the scene, which forces us into a position of doing without some of our favorite plugins, or moving to a much more supported platform, such as Cubase....which we don't necessarily want to do (especially those of us who are longtime users of 10,15,20 years). My only beef with that is that there have been times in the past where I've got a specific issue happening across several plugins from different companies, and they (the companies) are all pointing the finger at Cakewalk (and indeed, the plugins work in other DAWs on my system)...yet Cakewalk has thrown their hands up and said "not us" or "not something we can fix". Or the issue has gotten shoveled to the back burner. It does happen, and that makes me wary of that statement. I understand it's a valid excuse and that's that's genuinely the situation sometimes, but it's an easy one to fall back on when workloads are heavy or a problem is difficult to track down. And as the end-users, we don't always know the details, so you gotta understand how it looks sometimes. Personally, as a small business owner and such myself, I recognize that...and do thus give y'all more leeway than some other users do. It doesn't make things less frustrating on our end, though...so I guess just as you are asking for understanding and patience from us, I'd ask the same of y'all. When a user has lost hours of work, or can't get a plugin to work that they heavily depend on....they're not gonna be in the best of moods. Thanks for stopping in and attempting to communicate!