Matthew Carr

Thanks azslow,

My use case is for live performance, so let me give an overview as maybe I've not explained very well, or there is a better way.

In my cakewalk project I have a master setlist of songs (~60), each of which are marked as arranger sections and have a marker at the start (and potentially some markers at points in the song). Each arranger section (song) has an audio track for a drum track, some midi tracks which are displayed as notation, and program changes for external gear.

I have an third party program (Gig Performer) which hosts my VSTs played from my controller keyboards, and can organise setlists. As each song is selected in the setlist it's able to send a distinct midi message (CC, PC etc), which I want to use to set the now time in cakewalk to the start of each arranger section (song). 

The challenge is therefore to move the now time in cakewalk to a defined point via a midi msg - so when I select a song in Gig performer, the now time in cakewalk moves to the start of the correct arranger section (song) in cakewalk.

The type of MIDI message I can send is comprehensive (Program change, CC Msg, Song Position Pointer etc). I think it may also be possible to send an OSC message as well, using the Gig Performer scripting language, if that would be easier to handle in AZController.

Hope that helps explain the use case, feel free to ask any further questions!

Thanks,

Matt

On 6/3/2022 at 6:22 AM, azslow3 said:

I think for that particular implementation to work, Cakewalk has to be in focus.

Let me propose other possibility. Currently AZ Controller has no way to navigate internally by time (can be added... if really required...), but I think for
your case it is better navigate by markers. So you create a set of markers and ask AZ Controller navigate to them. Advantages:

1. if you modify the project timing, markers will be shifted properly and you don't need to correct the list
2. you can expose the list (throw OSC), so it will be project specific in the app

Current limit in AZ Controller is 20 (can be easily extended if required). But if you don't need jumps you can show "current" and 1-2 previous/next, then the list will not be long and there is no limits.

I can make an example preset.

Hi @azslow3

Firstly, thanks for picking up on my post, and more importantly thanks so much for taking the time and effort to write such a useful utility for cakewalk - it's been a real lifesaver given the current state of hardware integration!

Totally makes sense about Cakewalk having to be in focus when receiving the keystrokes, although in my case that's not really ideal.

I agree that navigating by markers would be the best -  my initial attempt was to just navigate X markers from the start, but I have more than 20 markers in my project so that wasn't possible - and I need to jump to non contiguous markers, so using next / previous marker won't work either. Is there any chance the number of markers to navigate could be made an input field allowing a larger number, rather than a drop down limited between -20 and 20?

e.g. the drop down shown is replaced with a text or combo box

The idea of having named markers to jump to would be great - is it possible to add an alternative dropdown which is populated with the names of markers in the current project? That would be completely awesome and far better than just allowing a larger number of markers to select from, as it would avoid having to count markers in the project, and adding or removing markers in the project wouldn't affect the existing mappings after any changes, which could end up being a real pain.

Obviously that would be more work than just changing the drop down to a text box, but conceptually it could work something like this:

- Add an additional drop down in the 'Marker' action list

- When to 'To Marker' is selected, the drop down list of values shows the names of markers in the project

- Not sure how things work under the hood in the SDK, but I'd imagine the list of marker names would be mapped to an index of marker IDs in the project, so adding / deleting a marker in the project would mess up this mapping. Hence they'd also need to be a 'refresh' button of some sort, which would re-map all marker names to the current marker index based on the name of each marker. 

- i.e. although the marker name is initially selected from a list of marker names in the current project, the actual marker name string is stored internally rather than the index. This would facilitate the refresh button functionality, which could then be extended to also remove marker names not found in the project (or perhaps map them to a default 'Marker Not Found' entry)

Obviously I appreciate that you have developed and worked on AZController for free,  so I have no expectations -  I just thought this would be a cool feature to add if you ever wanted to (or had time) to work on another version. Sorry for going down the rabbit hole on this!

Thanks again for all your development efforts, they are really appreciated.

Matt

On 6/2/2021 at 7:23 AM, Heinz Hupfer said:

Just write if you need more help for this.....

 

Hi @Heinz Hupfer,

Apologies for bringing back a very old thread, but have been trying out your script for AZController, which looks like it will be perfect for my needs, but I find that when sending a zero value for CC:57 (btn off), the 'Go' dialog is displayed, but the subsequent keystrokes for entering the now time (100) and pressing Enter are ignored

i.e. I just get the 'Go' dialog with the value for the last go to entry displayed and waiting for input, such as:

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong, or how to fix this?

Thanks so much!

Matt

Anyone use the new export function to export arranger sections? I just tried a large project with around 30 arranger sections and only 20 sections exported - they were all listed as a task, but the process completed without creating all the files (they were all exported as MP3)

I then clicked on the arranger section of a missing file, to highlight that section, and then exported to audio using the drop down on top left  'Export' button - the audio of the missing section exported fine, so not really sure why it wasn't included in output from the new dialog.

Anyone seen this, or have an idea what could be wrong?

On 11/8/2021 at 11:04 PM, Lombardi said:

Interesting!  Can I ask why you choose to use CbB to playback your backing tracks and not Gig Performer?

Gigperformer can play back audio, and now midi, but it's easier for me to use CbB as I can align any PC messages and DMX with the backing track easily on the timeline.

In Gigperformer, I often select a different rack (collection of VSTs) for a different part of song.. there might be a way, but couldn't see a simple way of keeping the same backing track playing when moving to a different rack.

Gigperformer is pretty awesome, and I'd highly recommend it - it is a bit pricey though. If you have Studio One then the Show Page could be worth investigating;  it looks interesting, but don't think it's quite there yet feature wise - hopefully they continue to develop it.

Sadly I think John is right, Live performance is a very small niche, in a very small market! So although CbB has the potential to be an amazing live performance tool, I doubt it will be developed in that direction - hence always good to hear other peoples solutions!

I use CbB in a live setting, but over time I've moved away from using it for everything.  The thing that hindered me most was the midi; inputs and outputs were forever being mapped to the wrong midi port at startup (because I'd move the file between my studio PC and performance PC, where slightly different things were plugged into different USB ports)  - and then VSTs would start acting on CC / PC changes from the wrong source. That wouldn't become apparent until you played a song that used the VST, so it made for a nervous live performance.

My best investment was Gigperformer, when on sale at Plugin Alliance. It hosts all my VSTs, has a rig manager for different PC setups, and just works. CbB plays back the backing track, shows notation, and sends out MIDI DMX (to QLC) and program changes (to Gigperformer) via loopmidi - virtualising the midi routes helps when moving  project to a different PC.

I use the arranger view as a setlist - each section in the arranger view is a song, so I can name them and jump around at will, or just play the set end to end. Each of the cover bands I play in has a limited number of songs (30 or so), so I can easily put all potential songs in one project.

7 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

You can double click any task to recall its settings. Recalling automatically would have been potentially annoying if someone just clicked a task.
To save new settings to an existing task you can do it from the drop down menu for the task (button to the right of the task)

Yes, I can see that the automatic recall might be annoying,  but at the moment it's hard to see many other reasons for clicking on a task, other than to delete it, rename it, or open the output folder , which could all be handled by the task drop down menu - meaning the default action of clicking on a task line would be a more natural paradigm of form and sub-form. As long there's a prompt to save or cancel any changes (if dirty) before any new task is recalled, then the  recall / save could be automatic, and the options removed from the drop down menu.

 The double click is a handy shortcut, but perhaps not be best UI wise

1. Double clicking the task is a 'magic' action -  you wouldn't know to do it unless you've been told
2. If you've double clicked the task, there is nothing to tell you that the dialog is now showing the details of the task that's been double clicked

Not trying to rain on the parade - the new export dialog is a massive step forward and I'm stoked! Just from my perspective it could be slightly more consistent with the way other UIs work.

Cheers,

Matt

Fantastic update, the new export system rocks!

Didn't have time to participate in the early access, but one thing that would seem more logical to me is to automatically recall the task settings in the dialog when a task is selected (or have a checkbox somewhere that enables this behaviour), and also a prompt to save changes when selecting a different a task (if the current task is has been changed)

The whole recall task settings / update task settings seems a bit cludgy to me - perhaps it'll be refined in a later update? Can appreciate the line would need to be drawn somewhere on this new dialog, as it's already got soo much functionality.

All worked as expected, but no update as already on the latest version .

My 2 cents would be:

• Include the reference guide as an add on
• Show add-ons that are already installed
• Show installed add-ons that have an update available (e.g. reference guide would go out of date over time)

On 6/26/2021 at 11:01 AM, msmcleod said:

2. Have a single MIDI track with its output set to a loopback device (e.g. http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html ), then have the input for the synths fed from the input for that device.

In my experience,  using a loopback device as the midi input to a track which has input echo on causes no end of problems - there's definitely a bug with the way virtual midi ports are being enumerated. This causes midi inputs to be re-assigned in projects whenever the physical midi devices connected to the system changes (regardless of whether they are  selected as midi inputs in the preferences tab)

Bit of a long thread due to the examples, but it's conclusive that the bug is specific to virtual midi ports, and not physical midi ports

Midi Inputs - Please Help! - Cakewalk by BandLab - Cakewalk Discuss | The Official Cakewalk by BandLab Forum

Would be great if there was an easy built in way to send midi to multiple tracks, if just to avoid use of loopback software

On 6/6/2021 at 1:39 PM, scook said:

To that end, I create an instrument track using a MIDI plug-in like one of the Code FN42 plug-ins (such as MIDIChFilter, MIDIChFilter or VeloScaler) or similar. Sometimes, the chain starts with a MIDI generator plug-in.

This plug-in appears at the input of all other instrument and MIDI tracks. Set their input, enable input echo and the synth is linked to the master track.

(Note: I did not plan on replying to this thread, however; several alternatives have already been mentioned, this needed to be documented).

That is actually pretty genius scook, thanks for sharing! A really elegant solution

 @msmcleodGreat to see some fixes coming in on Midi input problems!

If you're looking at the code for this, can you take a look at the bugs I reported when virtual midi devices are being used:

• Inputs from virtual midi devices are being changed on project open after a new physical midi controller is connected to the PC (even though the new device is not even checked as an input / output in the midi preferences box)
• 'Manage Presets' for Midi Inputs functionality has erratic behaviour

Midi Inputs - Please Help!

Cheers guys, the API looks interesting and started me wondering if I could write a small app to expose the controls I need via OSC (which can be sent from my setlist manager)... but it looks like AZController may have that covered!

Will have a dig in over the weekend and see how I get on

Thanks again for all your help!

On 5/28/2021 at 9:15 AM, Heinz Hupfer said:

I've made a short video with a small AZController preset: (Attached the preset)

 

Thanks so much Bassman, that's pretty much exactly what I was looking to do..  and including a preset for AZController is great!

Sorry for the  late reply, my band performed our first post pandemic gig yesterday - good times! Lots of people commented how good it was to be able to see live music again.

I'm wondering how AZController achieves it's integration, it seems to have pretty deep control over Cakewalk, so perhaps there an API available somewhere?

My setlist manager has a scripting engine, so it might be possible to do this directly, and avoid another piece of software running on my live rig.

On 5/25/2021 at 8:41 AM, Heinz Hupfer said:

Hi:)

@Matthew Carr

What does "External" mean? (Bluetooth)Midi Connection or from a Tablet or Handy?

There are different possibilities. From a Controller you need either a button and a Rotor to choose the bar number or just use a fader to move to a specific bar.

Same with Tablet or Handy. "Goto" Command and typing in the bar number....

SPP should also work with syncing Cakewalk....

 

Bassman.

 

The 'External' input will be from a setlist manager app, so basically I'm looking to send a message from the setlist app to move to a particular Now time in Bandlab.

The 'Goto' command will allow me to type a bar number to go to, but I don't want to be typing in bar numbers - the external command needs to specify the bar number to move to.

If I can control the Now time via an external controller, as you suggest, then this would be a great starting point - can you give a bit more detail please?

Thanks,

Matt

11 hours ago, Promidi said:

By moving "the timeline to a particular position" are you meaning the move the NOW cursor?

Yes, sorry for not being clearer!

11 hours ago, Promidi said:

If so, then my “thinking outside the square” solution would be to write a CAL script to do that.  Then use MIDI note keybinding to run that CAL. 

Mind you, the issue with CAL scripts is that sometimes, Cakewalk is not in a state to run CAL scripts at times.  If the menu item Process | run CAL entry is greyed out, then CAL scripts will not run - even from key bindings.

It would also depend on how you would program your “external device” to send the right MIDI events.

That is definitely some lateral thinking! I hadn't really thought about using CAL - although the fact it's sort of deprecated and isn't always available to run is a downside

Thanks for a great suggestion. It's a shame there isn't some sort of documented API for Cakewalk, or another way though. 

Using Arranger View to move sections around deletes the first tempo node in the tempo view

An Unusual request perhaps - does anyone know of a way to send a command from an external device to CBB to move the timeline to a particular position? 

Similar to a Song Position Pointer MIDI message I guess, but I'm not having any luck in getting CBB to respond to those..

TIA

In build 155, if I connected a piece of audio equipment with an audio/midi interface then I get the usual dialog

If I clicked 'Yes' then cakewalk crashes

Crash is always related to module RPCRT4.dll, regardless of equipment connected

This seems to be resolved in build 170, I guess due to the less strict error capture? Just providing for info really, as it's an edge case and is suppressed in RC1 - might be of interest as crash seems related to a windows system dll.

Using Windows 10 Pro, build 20H2

_05172021_081805.dmp

Thanks scook! Will use that going forward

Gifs are perfect as they are optimised for size, and having video is sometimes so much easier than describing.  It's just weird that they get inflated by so much when you upload one - like it's being converted to a video format or something.

I tend to used ScreenToGif - free and does everything you could need.

Have just created and linked a gif on imgur, works ok, but not as immediate as having the gif displaying inside the post -  as you have to click through on the link

Hi, anyone know what I'm doing wrong or if there's a workaround?

If I insert small gif in a post , say around ~250KB, it gets stored as a 5MB file in the forum

I've added a few Gifs in the past and not realised this was happening, and now I'm at my limit for attachments 😞

Don't really want to start deleting old Gifs, as it makes old posts non readable.

Not sure if this is intended behaviour, but seems a bit weird? If I've set some tracks to view automation, rather than clips, then I insert a new instrument, the tracks all get sat back to viewing clips?

Before inserting instrument

After inserting a new instrument track - the tracks all get set to clip view? 

Is this intended? I'm currently using Cakewalk 2021.04 Early Access 2, but think this behaviour has probably existed before

https://imgur.com/a/0rrbyyi

As it's a dell laptop,  I would definitely recommend running this https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

To my knowledge, most Dell laptops have issues with real time audio

On 4/21/2021 at 7:01 AM, Starship Krupa said:

"***** Dwarf" over "Tainted Love." 😂

😂😂 The guitarist actually suggested we do that. We put him in his place!! 🤣