Rain Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 (edited) I guess there's a reason I like instrumental electronic music so much... Yeah, that's take #382. And it wasn't even the last one. I recorded another 54 takes in Pro Tools afterwards (I needed a change of scenery). That's a whole night spent recording vocals for one song. Starting at around 11 pm and finally giving up at around 9 am. Not the harmonies, not overdubs, just the lead vocal - 2 verses, 2 choruses. I had gone through the same process a week earlier. And I will probably spend hours on it again this weekend. Granted, I'm not a singer, but that wouldn't make a difference. Same thing happens when I record guitars... It's just a case of me going - nah, I can do better. Then hitting undo and recording a new take, most of the time without even listening to the previous one. In 90% of the cases, there's nothing terribly wrong, no sour note, no error in the lyrics... I just want to do better. I also seem to feel that punching in would be cheating. It's not as if I were recording in a studio with an engineer and felt pressured. I have no deadline and no pressure, and I can record one verse at a time. So the least I can do is get it right. And that in itself is a curse I guess. Having been married to a phenomenal singer for a decade and being constantly surrounded by other extraordinarily talented vocalists is also a double edged sword. I can hear things I would have never noticed before when listening to vocalists - but the ability to hear and identify weaknesses and quirks doesn't mean that I have the talent to avoid or fix them. So it's often a case of - the vibrato on that note is a little off, or the enunciation is off, or that note doesn't "close" properly. Pretty soon, you're pulled into the realm of the microscopic. But I hear it, and I know that any singer will hear it too. Also, I have a perfect excuse. I haven't really sang in years. After I quit smoking the first time, I suddenly seemed to lose control over my voice, which was extraordinarily embarrassing. At least, now that's behind me, but I feel like I'm still finding my voice. So it does seem to improve a little, week after week. Sometimes I wish I could do what a lot of people working in electronic music do - just run my voice through a distortion and let it be. There are tons of bands that I like who do just that. I wouldn't want to hear what Front Line Assembly or Hocico sound like with regular vocals. But I can't seem to let myself do it. Maybe what I'm missing is a nice tube preamp, a great outboard compressor, or a channel strip. Or a better mic. Maybe I can buy my way out of that rabbit hole... So yeah... This is my office for the weekend again. Edited October 26 by Rain 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr No Name Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 Maybe keep your takes on separate tracks, and use some clever editing/ cut and pasting to get your perfect take ? like they used to do in the old days splicing tape ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Boog Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 38 minutes ago, Rain said: punching in would be cheating Cheers Rain. Prob 95% of pro singers punch in vocals. The studio isnt about showing off one-take performances. It's about making the best sounding product u can. Live playing is where u show u can at least do ur songs justice. Besides, live, the expectations aren't as high. But I know where ur coming from. I used to feel the exact same way. Then I realized all I was doing was waisting my own precious time. And why? For studio bragging rights? It's not worth it. Now, I actually enjoy using Melodyne. For a long time my pride wouldn't let me go near it but after I saw many GREAT singers using it, I realized I was being silly. It saves me a lot of time and when used right it sounds totally natural. I only wish I tried it sooner. So yeah, why set urself a higher bar than the pros do? I say make like Mike Tyson and punch ur heart out 👊 (U got a nice looking little studio btw) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 1 hour ago, T Boog said: The studio isnt about showing off one-take performances. It's about making the best sounding product u can. Live playing is where u show u can at least do ur songs justice. Besides, live, the expectations aren't as high. ^^^^ this pretty much nails it. In a studio environment, there are so many tools available to streamline this process post-production (comping, automation, Melodyne, etc.). Because of post-production, the "one take wonder" isn't a requirement, but the "best product possible" remains a goal. Live is where the best rendition possible comes into play, and they are definitely two different beasts. 4 hours ago, Rain said: It's just a case of me going - nah, I can do better. Then hitting undo and recording a new take, most of the time without even listening to the previous one. In 90% of the cases, there's nothing terribly wrong, no sour note, no error in the lyrics... I just want to do better. This statement immediately makes comping come to mind. We are always our own worst critics, and perfectionists tend to invest too much time in the details, when often an observer would not even notice. The trick is knowing when "good enough" is the place to stop (and many things can be revisited later). I have a lot of hobby projects where I see every square inch of something as I work (cars, house, guitar work, etc.), and always have to rein myself in with a couple of questions: 1) "Is anyone but me ever going to notice (or even care) about that?" (especially if there are hours of additional effort involved to fix something), and 2) "Does the 6-foot view apply?" (with automotive work, this if often used to distinguish view from a distance versus having one's nose planted on the paint in a specific location, but is akin to hearing/seeing something in passing versus trying to dissect it). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Boog Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 43 minutes ago, mettelus said: they are definitely two different beasts Yeah, in studio with a condenser mic, vocals can be very finicky. Even if u sing in perfect tune, slight movements can effect the eq response of how a line or word sits in the mix. Esp if u sing near the mic(which has become fairly common). Thats whats great with Melodyne, Now when I listen back to a vocal, I'm less concerned with pitch & timing and more focused on how the words enunciate, flow & sit in the mix. Once that's right, I use Melodyne (conservatively) to correct any pitch & timing issues. With live singing, it's basically the opposite. Your main concerns ARE pitch & timing. Things like proximity effect, irritating little mouth noises, background noises, etc aren't as much of an issue. (Not enough for my drunken fanbase to care anyway 😜) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Joad Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 Get yourself a Shure Beta 58A mic, they are very forgiving (basically you can eat the damn thing) and still sound pretty good. It kind of sounds like you're under the microscope, let the phrase "Good enough for government work" be your mantra😎👍🏼 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 I can't wait to hear it - if 400+ and counting takes were rejected the final one will surely be something to behold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57Gregy Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 My life got so much simpler when I realized that I can't do better. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 Not sure about the rest, but take 420 was smokin'! 😁 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveStrummerUK Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 Rain: Yeah, that's take #382 Bapu: Am I ever going to get my tracks 😡 😊 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted October 28 Share Posted October 28 13 hours ago, SteveStrummerUK said: Rain: Yeah, that's take #382 Bapu: Am I ever going to get my tracks 😡 😊 Maybe NagBap doesn't run on a Mac? 🤔 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted October 28 Author Share Posted October 28 I'm drinking my "morning" coffee and getting ready for yet another session, and I figured I would re-read this and try to let some of that wisdom seep through that thick skull of mine. I just started the demo period UAD Spark and I'd really like to have time to actually play with those plugins - it's be great not to waste the entire night singing (what little I've tested this morning already compelled me to add the studio ed bundle to my cart). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Boog Posted October 28 Share Posted October 28 2 hours ago, Rain said: wisdom seep through that thick skull of mine. Good morning Rain. Fwiw, I don't think ur skull's as thick as u think. Ur seeking advice which shows an open mind. Rem, the biggest pitfall of a home studio is having endless time. Leaving oneself unchecked time wise is an unproductive habit. It seems to me that u just need to wear ur 'producer' hat a lil more(or wear it better). A producer would set time limits for u on each track. And he wouldn't sit there watching u try to nail tracks from beginning to end. He would MAKE u do punch-in's. He'd use time management, commonsense & positive moral to keep ur projects moving forward. U just need to set some short goals & limits for urself. And don't let that inner voice of perfectionism always get it's way. (Everyone here knows that ur 5th take prob sounds as good as ur 355th take 😄) And for God's sake... start punching in! Trying to be both a perfectionist AND nail everything in one full take is not wise. It's not good time management. Ur smarter than that. Besides, if ur songs are good, the performances don't matter as much as u think. And if ur songs suck, they matter even less 😂. Anyway, Rock On My Friend! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted October 28 Share Posted October 28 *Patiently waits for take #1,362...* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Boog Posted October 28 Share Posted October 28 43 minutes ago, craigb said: Patiently waits for take #1,362...* One things for sure, he has good lungs. It takes stamina to sing from dusk til dawn like that. Im worn out just thinking about it 😩 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted October 28 Share Posted October 28 On 10/26/2024 at 1:18 PM, 57Gregy said: My life got so much simpler when I realized that I can't do better. When I can't do any better I just let this guy play all my guitar solos Kenny 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted October 29 Author Share Posted October 29 15 hours ago, T Boog said: One things for sure, he has good lungs. It takes stamina to sing from dusk til dawn like that. Im worn out just thinking about it 😩 I didn't really realize it until I called it a day and sat down and realized that I'd been standing up all night. My feet were killing me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo Posted Wednesday at 07:18 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 07:18 PM I'm starting to think that my typical max 3 takes without even leaving my chair is somehow not pro enough...... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted Friday at 06:57 AM Author Share Posted Friday at 06:57 AM On 10/27/2024 at 9:56 PM, Rain said: I'm drinking my "morning" coffee and getting ready for yet another session, and I figured I would re-read this and try to let some of that wisdom seep through that thick skull of mine. I just started the demo period UAD Spark and I'd really like to have time to actually play with those plugins - it's be great not to waste the entire night singing (what little I've tested this morning already compelled me to add the studio ed bundle to my cart). Well, at least there's SOME development. I bought the UAD Studio bundle this morning. And went back for the SSL bundle tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Boog Posted Friday at 07:36 AM Share Posted Friday at 07:36 AM 35 minutes ago, Rain said: I bought the UAD Studio bundle this morning Congrats Rain. I'm more curious about ur song though. Any progress on it? I'm curious if u changed ur approach at all or are u taking a break from it for a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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