End of life for TTS-1

[T Boog]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

Without GM format midi files would playback out of control gibberish

Hi John. I once tried assigning a diff piano vst to the soft synth track I recorded using the TTS-1's piano and it was very low volume. Is this because it's a diff format? If I bought the Sound Canvas, would I be able to assign it to the midi tracks I recorded using the TTS-1(as a soft synth) or how else could I get around that?

[Ronny.G]

3 hours ago, T Boog said:

If I bought the Sound Canvas, would I be able to assign it to the midi tracks I recorded using the TTS-1(as a soft synth) or how else could I get around that?

If you still have the TTS-1 after you open a midi file, if you have also installed the sound canvas plugin, you can change all the tracks with right click on TTS-1 then "replace synth for all tracks using this synth".

If you don't have the TTS-1 anymore you can select all tracks then open tracks menu and select "selected track outputs", here you can choose your vst (sound canvas).

The problem is with the auto sysxes. Now when you open a midi file that have these data they are auto sended to TTS-1 for configure or reset various GM options before start to play. But in future this could be a problem. You will have to "manual" send these auto sysxs after you have open the midi and assigned its tracks to the sound canvas plugin. Or when it's possible use an event option on the track alternative to sysx. This is the point in where you sought the old TTS-1 where you didn't have to worry about this passage.

I tried all the various vst options to replace the TTS-1 during the years, but TTS-1 was still the best as resources/quality and fast access. Then there is the sound canvas plugin. You can use some .sf2 soundfonts with vsts also but then you have problems in find and setup the right reverbs or choruses for the tracks as most of the time the included one doesn't sound right. Something never sound right with pre midi files and you have to do a lot of small fixes and so you lost a lot of time. I had a system with a perfect .sf2 midi player but was not a vst. In the past I had also a Yamaha DB50XG, that was better than TTS-1 unfortunately it needs a waveblaster soundcard and now it is installed on my master keyboard piano to give it also sound...

I think that we need to ask the bakers if there will be an option to choose a default vst plugin (gm multitrack compatible) for midi files to open with. In this case it should work exactly as the old TTS-1. But we need this option to be added.

As a note remember that the gm vst must be multitrack compatible as it is the sound canvas plugin or all these suggestion don't work. Example xv-5080 (plugin not the real device) is better than sound canvas but it lacks multitracks.

Edited February 26 by Ronny.G

[Promidi]

7 minutes ago, Ronny.G said:

The problem is with the auto sysx. Now when you open a midi file that have these data they are auto sended to TTS-1. But in future this could be a problem. You will have to "manual" send these auto sysx after you have open the midi and assigned its tracks to the sound canvas plugin. This is the point in where you sought the old TTS-1 where you don't have to worry about this passage.

What we also need is the ability for Cakewalk to send Sysex data to VSTis.  Currently, Sysex can only be sent to physical hardware ports. Personally,  I use a lot of sysex for the SW1000XG (My clients to require this).

For Roland GM/GS sound modules to be properly and more fully emulated, Sysex needs to be part of the equation (with Roland or Yamaha). This is because Sysex tends to be where most of the cool stuff happens.

[Ronny.G]

33 minutes ago, Promidi said:

Currently, Sysex can only be sent to physical hardware ports

Are you sure? For what I can see the sysxs  can already be sent to a VSTis if the output is a VSTi.

What we need in future is an option to auto load a preferred VSTi when you open a midi file so we can for example use the sound canvas plugin or others exactly as it was for the TTS-1, and so also auto send sysxs at load.

Edited February 26 by Ronny.G

[John Vere]

1 hour ago, Ronny.G said:

What we need in future is an option to auto load a preferred VSTi when you open a midi file so we can for example use the sound canvas plugin or others exactly as it was for the TTS-1, and so also auto send sysxs at load.

Here lies the problem. Because Cakewalk goes so far back it is almost unique in the DAW world and I’m pretty sure no other DAW can open and play a midi file in all its glory better than Cakewalk. 

When I get a chance I’ll try an experiment with a complicated midi file I bought back in the late 80’s. The Sultans of Swing. It heavily relies on system exclusive to play the guitar part. I originally had a Roland MT32 which was the beginning of GM but not there yet. It only had 8 channels. ?  
I replaced it with my Korg 05R/W which I still have. That was like night and day playing this same file.
I remember being dissatisfied with Sound Blaster sound fonts. And GS wavetable synth was always bad. My Korg was better mostly I think because it’s effects were better.  But when I started using Cakewalk in mid 90’s I found the TTS-1 was a lot less hassle than hardware so shelved the Korg. But I often dust it off for the none GM sounds that so far I haven’t found replacements for. 

But I’ll try playing this file through all the GM players I have and I’ll record it and possibly a fun little You Tube project which compared  each player. 

[John Vere]

Just another thought on this. I sort of think this might have not been planned by our developers and was not on the radar to add anything to replace that feature of default playback. It’s not possible without a 3 rd party plug in. 
This whole thing might be Roland pushing Software sales. 

Edited March 1 by John Vere

[OutrageProductions]

17 minutes ago, John Vere said:

But I’ll try playing this file through all the GM players I have and I’ll record it and possibly a fun little You Tube project which compared  each player. 

If you feel adventurous John, you might try THIS and report on it as well.

Personally, I haven't used anything GM for years. 

[Ronny.G]

@John Vere Exactly, no other DAW can open and play a midi file as fast and with quality comparable to CbB. As I said the TTS-1 is not the most accurate gm/gs module but is, or better say was, integrated, free, fast and soundwise well balanced between instruments and due to this I don't remember a pre midi file that was not good with it.

I have to say that from my tests the Roland sound canvas plugin is also as good as TTS-1 or better. Unfortunately it is not free and more important it needs some little user work before play midis (change output and manually send all sysx) but at least is a real VSTi the TTS-1 not so you can use it with every DAW.

I know that it will be difficult but let's hope there will be some chance for letting the user select a GM VSTi module to auto open when you open a midi file. In fact at the moment is true the opposite...you can't load a midi file without TTS-1

 

Edited February 26 by Ronny.G

[azslow3]

Some years ago I have tried to find multi-platform solution to use in place of TTS-1. And I have found nothing... Ended rolling my own based on SF2 synth, for sure far from perfect, not even with complete FluidSynth capabilities: https://github.com/AZSlow3/FluidSynthVST

[John Vere]

The video is getting more interesting by the minute! 
 

I can’t find my old file I guess it got lost in the transition from floppy disk to PC hard drives.  
 

But I found a downloaded version that seems the same. 
So hard cold fact is  the TTS-1 still works as usual in the new update.
I just updated Cakewalk and I opened the midi file no problem so we will have the TTS-1 until they pull the plug for good on CbB. My guess is this is still a longs way off. 
 

And it seems that even once CbB goes in to demo mode that it will remain installed and available to Sonar . 

And those of us with older Sonar will also have it until something breaks DXi. 

It was crashing Cakewalk sometimes anyhow so this is a good chance to move on as well.  
 

Edited February 27 by John Vere

[User 905133]

9 hours ago, John Vere said:

People who never use pre made midi files will most certainly not miss the TTS-1.

It is still possible to reorchestrate pre-made midi files without GM sound banks.  It was possible decades ago and will still be possible.  Yes, it might require more thoughtfulness and effort, but what's wrong with that?

Decades I picked up a commercial 3.5" floppy disk of fully licensed Led Zeppelin tunes.  While they played OK with my sound card's GM bank, it was a great experience using sounds from various sound modules (including samplers and romplers). 

Maybe people who come into DAW forums like this one with zero knowledge of MIDI wondering why the MIDI files they downloaded don't make any sound would be inspired to be a tad more creative.

BTW, there were plenty of uses of the bundled Edirol VCS and TTS-1 other than playing back pre-made midi files.

Edited February 27 by User 905133
fixed typo (an -->and)

[Promidi]

3 hours ago, Ronny.G said:

Are you sure? For what I can see the sysxs  can already be sent to a VSTis if the output is a VSTi.

Actually, come to think of it, I think you’re right.  If one has VSTis in a project, then those ports become available as destinations for Sysex banks in Sysex View.

Unfortunately, The only VSTis that states it can receive Sysex data that I have is ShowMIDI.  This is a handy utility that can show MIDI data streams, including sysex.  I tried sending sysex data to ShowMIDI, using Banks. and this did not show any sysex as being received.

Of course, Raw sysex Data events (not banks) will be sent to the first available port, which for many, will be a hardware port.

Cakewalk probably needs a better way to handle Sysex data to VSTi, rather than using port numbers (which can change, depending on the number of VSTis in a project)

But was are digressing, this topic is TTS end of life

[John Vere]

9 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

BTW, there were plenty of uses of the bundled Edirol VCS and TTS-1 other than playing back pre-made midi files.

Of course I agree. Reading a lot of post you will see lots of people that never progressed past the default. Many were even unaware that midi had other choices in Cakewalk. 

It’s the pre viewing midi files in 10 seconds we will ultimately be loosing. 

We will be loosing this long standing convenience.

We will not be loosing  an irreplaceable synth. Far from it. 
I can see that down the road when the time comes it will be a simple matter of associating midi files with Home Studio. 

Edited February 27 by John Vere

[Pathfinder]

On 2/25/2024 at 8:03 PM, User 905133 said:

I have several Roland hardware sound GM/GS/Sound Canvas devices from the early to mid 1990s.  There are only two drawbacks: (1) no digital outs and (2) they use 5-pin DIN connectors.  Other than that, they are more than capable of handling any of my GM needs.

My Sound canvas works great with a simple Roland UM 1 midi cable-yes din connector, not a big deal for me. But I am a midi guy from the 90's.. I would never use the sounds from TTS-1 or my sound canvas in an actual finished project.. 

Edited February 27 by Pathfinder

[mettelus]

3 hours ago, John Vere said:

I’m pretty sure no other DAW can open and play a midi file in all its glory better than Cakewalk

I don't work with old MIDI files much but seem to have a truckload of them. I just opened a 27-year-old copy of "Too Much Time On My Hands" with SOP. The first popup says "Do you want to load General MIDI sounds for this file?" Click yes, and half a second later it is loaded with Presence XT (akin to Dimension Pro, but a bit more powerful) on all 16 tracks. No muss, no fuss, and the patches they mapped as "general MIDI" are pretty close right out the chute.

Cakewalk has Dimension Pro/Rapture Pro, so there is no reason something similar cannot be done. It is more a matter of mapping GM appropriately to patches.

LOL, now I have a file with "27 years ago" on my recent song list in SOP... nice! (that is how I knew how old the file is!)

[bmarlowe]

5 hours ago, John Vere said:

So hard cold fact is  the TTS-1 still works as usual in the new update.

I just updated Cakewalk and I opened the midi file no problem so we will have the TTS-1 until they pull the plug for good on CbB. My guess is this is still a longs way off. 

------------------------
CbB support kind of told me otherwise. Lois said that I should convert all my TTS-1 tracks to audio tracks before I do the update because they can't guarantee that TTS-1 will still work. Do-able but yikes! I am now afraid to do the update until the answer is more definitive.

It's funny because I do have the $69 Roland Sound Canvas. The sounds are often but not always the same (sometimes one or the other is better), and of course the reverb/chorus/vibrato etc. settings are different.

 

 

[SVSX]

22 hours ago, User 905133 said:

Summer Games Miami does indeed capture the vintage game vibe!  A fun happy tune. 

Thanks a lot, i appreciate it! ?

[John Vere]

Spent all last night researching the topic and have most of a script for a video done. I followed all the leads mentioned above and downloaded 6 different options. Some work some don’t. So in the video I’ll play examples of what each sounds like including any hardware I have on hand. The deal is no user intervention. 
this is the file I’m using 

https://freemidi.org/download3-2804-sultans-of-swing-dire-straits

It has systEx data. 

I had put my Sound Canvas on consignment at the local music store for $15  I’ll find out later if it’s still there . 

One common player people talk about and I got it with Band in the Box is Sforzanzo but I gave up on it as it seems you’re supposed to drag and drop the sf2 files which I don’t have. So is there a standard GM bank that people use? Thanks 

[Glenn Stanton]

Musescore has some large SF2 files available which form the basis for their orchestration. and there are a quite a few free SF2 GM files out there. note: musescore.org and ONLY the free software - do not use the Musehub unless you like the pain and suffering thing. musescore.com is the paid score site - unless you want to pay for sheet music, i'd avoid that as well.

Musescore (which is not a plugin) is pretty good at taking a MIDI file and converting into the right set of instruments. like TTS-1, not great instruments, but the Musehub sounds (imho) are not great either - so if i failed to mention not installing Musehub because of pain and suffering, then i suggest avoiding it...

Edited February 27 by Glenn Stanton
image

[John Vere]

Good lord, any attempts at finding sf2 files takes you to the time machine and way back machine web pages. I think I'll pass, that's just way to much like work. 

The one @Glenn Stanton was all dead ends. Lots of interesting reading but no obvious downloadable GM midi sf2 files. I'm sort of careful about downloading files. Even though I'm doing this on a old laptop that is it gets screwed I'm fine. 

I doubt if my watchers are interested in ancient tech anyhow.  I have found some very good alternatives that are super easy to download and install. 

Another weird one is I have Coyote with Band in a box. It directly will replace the TTS-1 in Cakewalk and sounds pretty good.  But trying to find a simple download seems a rabbit hole of of scary places on the internet.  If anyone has insight please share.