Why Music Recording Had Advantages Before DAWs

[kitekrazy]

https://www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/why-music-recording-had-advantages-before-daws

I'd love to see that Classic Album series.

[hockeyjx]

I think if someone is disciplined, that now is the best time ever to record. I get the argument, and I do think for some "analysis paralysis" is a thing.

I just got a digital copy of my old band's last demo done "traditionally", and while it sounds really good and I like it, it still is missing things that if we had more time, we could have fixed. It was all post-recording, so if I had a copy of it in a DAW, I could have played with it until I was happy.

[Shane_B.]

1 hour ago, hockeyjx said:

if I had a copy of it in a DAW, I could have played with it until I was happy.

I did this recently. I transferred some very old recordings I made on 4 track from back in the mid 80s.

I added instruments, fixed a lot of vocals with Melodyne, remixed, and remastered everything.

I was even able to separate out some instruments that were bounced down on to one track using O9A.

It was a lot of fun and the end product was amazing compared to what I started with.

I also did that with some old 8 track band demos from the 90s. We played to a click track and I was able to completely remove the poorly mic'd drums and replace them with samples. I also sped the track up without artifacts using software. We originally recorded it too slow but didn't pick up on it at the time.

If Joe Schmoe sitting in his bedroom/home recording room can do that, imagine what the professionals in real studios with access to a lot more equipment and software than I have can do. Not to mention a lot more talent and skill than I have.

Edited January 25 by Shane_B.

[bitflipper]

My drives are littered with hundreds of "projects" that never got off the ground. My success rate for taking a doodle to finished song is less than 1%. 

Building a song from idea to completed composition within a DAW is a journey that can take surprising turns. I have some that I really like that began as nothing more than a synth pad but evolved into complex and interesting final products, guided by nothing more than "hmm, that sounds good" as a roadmap. Those successes, however, are the minority. Most just died because I didn't know where to take them next.

By contrast, the majority of songs I'm happy with began life far from a computer. Most began on a piano or acoustic guitar, and had already developed into a fully fleshed-out song before I ever sat down at the DAW. Of course, once they became digital they quickly wandered off into new and unanticipated directions. But they all started with a prepared framework, which has proven to be  the most common predictor of success. Or, at least, a finished product.

The beauty of the DAW is that we don't have to choose one methodology and stick with it. It can adapt to whatever process works for us. If that means jamming with your band for a month, recording it and picking out just the best bits for a song, then fine. If it means plunking down colored bars onto the PRV and randomly scrolling through synth presets, that's OK, too. Whatever works for you.

But what you don't want is to rely solely on serendipity to produce something you'll like. One of my favorite quotes is from Dwight David Eisenhower, famous for masterminding WWII military campaigns: "plans are useless, but planning is essential".
 

 

 

[John Vere]

I have a folder named “Tascam “ from transferring my Tascam DR40 recordings. I get a song idea and I grab the recorder and a guitar and capture the idea before it’s long gone.  
On a rainy day 3 months later I’ll listen to these and I always find at least one good idea that actually becomes a song. I always finish my songs right away. (Then I redo them for 30 years. !) 

The DR 40 is a great tool for song writing. It’s certainly nothing new. Just put up your hand if your first recording device was a Sony portable Cassette with built in mikes. 
But the problem back then was what you got was the worst possible recording quality and no way to take it further. 

My 14 year old grandson has started playing guitar and he has written out lyrics to about 20 songs already. He asked for help because he has no clue what chords will work with the lyrics and he totally can’t sing at all yet. 
 

I got him to try and sing a melody to the words and see if I could find at least a starting key. Gave up and faked it and told him he’s singing in C. 
His songs are cowboy songs and this one’s about a truck that is costing the dude money.  I played a few country style progressions and before you know it I had chords and a good arrangement for the song. So a collaboration effort. He’s totally hooked now. 
I was going to put it in Cakewalk but I didn’t think he’s ready for that yet. 
So I got this idea and I bought Band in  aBox and I’m just downloading the content right now. I’m hoping it will be an easy tool for him until he learns more about music and get better at the guitar and singing. His lyrics are actually really good. 

So now let’s see how hard it is to learn Band in a box l. I see it’s now using samples instead of the terrible GM synth it used last time I tried it.  

Edited January 25 by John Vere

[craigb]

Wait... Are you trying to imply that we're supposed to create and finish actual songs? ?

That's not a concept I'm familiar with...  Heck, just trying to find "that one preset" causes hours of fun (but wasted) time playing around! ?

[bats brew]

i see nothing but Plusses for modern daws.

 

it's up to the user to reign it all in.

 

you have to have a vision.

otherwise, you are spinning wheels, whether it's old analog gear or modern DAW.

[Jeremy Oakes]

I think the beauty of the mobile phone is its capacity to capture the ideas you have on the fly . The problem is, when you try and translate those ideas into workable songs in a DAW - do you start with rhythm guitar or percussion (i don’t do beats or similar “music”) ?

Given the “lack” of good tab in CbB, i use Guitar Pro to try and get my ideas straight. I can then get drums and bass sorted. Import the midi into CbB. Re do the bass and add guitar and keyboards if necessary.

I adree completely with @bats brew the modern  DAW is the way.

YMMV

J

[craigb]

9 minutes ago, Jeremy Oakes said:

I think the beauty of the mobile phone is its capacity to capture the ideas you have on the fly . The problem is, when you try and translate those ideas into workable songs in a DAW - do you start with rhythm guitar or percussion (i don’t do beats or similar “music”) ?

Given the “lack” of good tab in CbB, i use Guitar Pro to try and get my ideas straight. I can then get drums and bass sorted. Import the midi into CbB. Re do the bass and add guitar and keyboards if necessary.

I adree completely with @bats brew the modern  DAW is the way.

YMMV

J

Keith Richards woke up on a subway train to find he had recorded something onto a cassette tape...  It was the start of Can't Get No Satisfaction!

I bet he thought that was great! ?

[Byron Dickens]

Discipline and limitations are the two best creative tools known to man.

[Old Joad]

I just got home from having a jam with some old friends, and man did it feel good to have a few ?'s and let it fly.

recorded using 1/4 reel to reel, I'll post it in the songs forum in a few days.

[Shane_B.]

18 hours ago, John Vere said:

So now let’s see how hard it is to learn Band in a box l. I see it’s now using samples instead of the terrible GM synth it used last time I tried it.

There's a few people here that are really in to BiaB and their forum is great.

There's a lot of really good tutorials on youtube to help get started and do more advanced stuff too.

I had it for a while and plan on getting it again once I get a little studio set up.

You can buy a high quality .wav version of it that comes on a hard drive. That's the version I had.

[Starship Krupa]

18 hours ago, craigb said:

Wait... Are you trying to imply that we're supposed to create and finish actual songs? ?

That's not a concept I'm familiar with...  Heck, just trying to find "that one preset" causes hours of fun (but wasted) time playing around! ?

We're not supposed to do anything. Unless we set that specific goal for ourselves.

If the driving motivation is to have fun playing around with sound, there's nothing less "valid" about this use of the tools.

Part of the fun for me is to produce finished pieces that I like enough for other people to listen to, but it doesn't have to be.

At age 62 I have no reason to front like I'm gonna be a music star someday.

If I spend $80 on Chromaphone and put on headphones and spend a few hours going through the presets and having my mind blown, I've gotten my money's worth, just as if I'd spent that money on any number of other fun (and probably non-repeatable) activities. Not wasted time any more than 6 months of Netflix.

[John Vere]

When ever my wife complains that I spent too much time in the studio I point out that she could have married someone who plays golf in summer and snowmobiles in winter and then when at home watches sports on TV.  
Then she listens to the songs and sends me back to fix everything she doesn’t like! The nerve ! 

[craigb]

1 hour ago, pwal³ said:

this is how i rate stuff, a good night out can easily cost 80 quid

Yes!  Think of the poor quid!!! ?

[pbognar]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:56 PM, Shane_B. said:

I did this recently. I transferred some very old recordings I made on 4 track from back in the mid 80s.

I added instruments, fixed a lot of vocals with Melodyne, remixed, and remastered everything.

I was even able to separate out some instruments that were bounced down on to one track using O9A.

What is O9A?

[mettelus]

3 hours ago, pbognar said:

What is O9A?

iZotope Ozone 9 Advanced. The stem separation is also available in the Standard version.

[Old Joad]

So I posted the song in the songs forum, have a listen when you get the chance☮️

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/72009-ache/

[CSistine]

On 1/25/2024 at 6:45 PM, hockeyjx said:

I think if someone is disciplined, that now is the best time ever to record.

Generally you're right!

But for me it is sometimes very difficult to be disciplined with a DAW and the endless plugin gear! In the 80s with my 8-track tape recorder and a few hardware units it was that much easier to be concentrated on the recording, on the song!

But what I really like nowadays are the extended possibilities for post production, like some mentioned above. Although it takes a lot of time, you are able to squeeze out a miracle of a less than average performance/recording.

With regard to song creation I do it still the old way, i.e. the song is almost finished before I start working in a DAW. However, it takes too much time to adjust the instrumentation and find the right vsti's and presets for the open keyboard and/or classical instrument additions.

[John Vere]

The thing about a DAW is you can choose to totally ignore the features and use it like an 8 track. 
You can choose,like me, to only have 1 reverb unit and 2 compressors like I did in the 80’s.  

So for me the audio recording part never really changed other than Melodyne. 

I think the biggest improvement over the old days is what we now get out of midi. This has made the one man band sound 100% better than it did back then. 

 

I just posted a song in the song forum that is about 8 tracks. And I didn’t use Melodyne. It totally could have been done on a 8 track and midi sync to an Atari. Vocals and guitar tracks all one complete takes. It’s not my best work for sure but it was done this way on purpose.  

Edited January 30 by John Vere