It's official: CbB will not continue for long.

[Bristol_Jonesey]

7 minutes ago, T Boog said:

Hey guys, I've seen a couple people say that theyre not starting any new projects while waiting on the new Sonar. I'm wondering if they're saying this due to pricing concerns or because they fear problems carrying over their project to the new system.  

I mainly ask this cause when I downloaded this new EA version, it caused me problems so I had to revert back to an older version. I understand that theyre still working out the kinks but should I be concerned that my current project won't operate correctly with the new Sonar?

I'm just trying to figure out if I'm under somewhat of a time crunch(esp since I'm running an older version) or if I have nothing really the worry about as long as I buy the new Sonar.

Btw I understand nothing's guaranteed, I'm just reaching out for some educated opinions since I'm still wet behind the ears . Thanks ?

 

Nobody can say for sure what will happen with YOUR system. Every user case is different to the next.

But I updated to the EA on the first day it was available and haven't noticed a single thing wrong with it.

You WILL need to update it at some point because the existing servers which CbB use to refresh your activation will no longer be online. 

The way I see it, you have a choice of 4 courses of action:

1. Update to the final release and use that. This will mean no more updates or bug fixes
2. Upgrade to Sonar when it becomes available
3. Revert to using X2/X3/Platinum
4. Don't do any of the above and stop using it after a period of (max) 6 months.

[Craig Anderton]

Most X.0 programs have an X.0.1 release shortly thereafter. Cakewalk has a history of introducing hotfixes when needed. I can personally vouch for that - several years ago I alerted Noel to a problem no one else caught, and there was a public hotfix in a week. 

So...yes, you have 6 months to decide if you want to go to the new Sonar, but that also means you have 6 months where you can chill and check out a somewhat later version with bug fixes. You don't have to use the very first release, you can wait for one or two "point" updates if they're needed, and see how things unfold. 

I look forward to seeing what the Bakers come up with. I'm encouraged that it's not being rushed to market.

[Noel Borthwick]

Just to clarify in case some people are confused with all the FUD, what we just released was a good faith early access update for users of CbB, just because of the long wait since its last release.  It is NOT Sonar which is a different version that we will release later (most likely as a public beta initially).
The implication that this early access was rushed is doesn't make sense. This update has a very small set of changes that were made over a period of almost a year and have been widely tested internally and by beta testers. In my experience most problems that get reported with any new release tend to be either environmental or issues that are preexisting and completely unrelated to the new release. If there happen to be any NEW problems report them in the EA channel and we'll investigate them.
 

[Greg Wynn]

56 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

Most X.0 programs have an X.0.1 release shortly thereafter. Cakewalk has a history of introducing hotfixes when needed. I can personally vouch for that - several years ago I alerted Noel to a problem no one else caught, and there was a public hotfix in a week. 

So...yes, you have 6 months to decide if you want to go to the new Sonar, but that also means you have 6 months where you can chill and check out a somewhat later version with bug fixes. You don't have to use the very first release, you can wait for one or two "point" updates if they're needed, and see how things unfold. 

I look forward to seeing what the Bakers come up with. I'm encouraged that it's not being rushed to market.

I can vouch for that as well.  A few years back I had a strange graphical issue and Noel contacted me to do a Zoom session.  After we spent some time troubleshooting, he identified the problem, gave me access to a patch and then rolled the patch into the next release.

It doesn't get any better than that. 

[Andres Medina]

Regarding bugs: in my experience, if a software is well designed, the difference is made by the support team: when things go wrong, it's up to them to give help.

Regarding CW, at least in my experience, the support is outstanding.

[John Vere]

I started this thread because I find what Noel is saying as all good news for me I felt others would agree. 

I've held off on making any more tutorials about CbB because of the possible changes to the UI. In the first announcement it was not clear on the demise of CbB. Now it's clear, That's fine and probably in a year everyone will have totally forgotten about CbB and moved on.  

There will always be a tiny group of hold outs. There's a whole Face book page populated with Sonar Platinum holdouts  called the Sonar user group,  this will be hilarious because guess what will happen. They are asking questions like " Will the new Sonar be free for all us who paid Gibson a lot of money and got screwed over? " Do you feel that way? I don't because I just got 5 or more  years worth of free updates. I totally see no issues with what is happening. 

And the early access is working 100% for me 

[Bristol_Jonesey]

19 minutes ago, JohnnyV said:

I started this thread because I find what Noel is saying as all good news for me I felt others would agree. 

I've held off on making any more tutorials about CbB because of the possible changes to the UI. In the first announcement it was not clear on the demise of CbB. Now it's clear, That's fine and probably in a year everyone will have totally forgotten about CbB and moved on.  

There will always be a tiny group of hold outs. There's a whole Face book page populated with Sonar Platinum holdouts  called the Sonar user group,  this will be hilarious because guess what will happen. They are asking questions like " Will the new Sonar be free for all us who paid Gibson a lot of money and got screwed over? " Do you feel that way? I don't because I just got 5 or more  years worth of free updates. I totally see no issues with what is happening. 

And the early access is working 100% for me 

I certainly don't feel that way. I got over the Gibson debacle the day after they announced their intention to throw us to the wolves, fully prepared to stick with Splat or move to a new platform if it no longer worked. 

Which of course never happened. Certainly Bandlab don't owe us anything, thy can only be commended up to this point.

[Noel Borthwick]

18 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

 

“The grass is not, in fact, always greener on the other side of the fence. No, not at all. Fences have nothing to do with it. The grass is greenest where it is watered. When crossing over fences, carry water with you and tend the grass wherever you may be.”

But also remember the words of Erma Bombeck: "The grass is always greener over the septic tank."

 

So you're saying we need to putrefy Sonar to make it greener. Noted   ?

[John Vere]

Actually that old saying is questionable. Unless you have a very old and dangerous tank with a wooden lid, The grass will die over a certified modern tank because the soil heats up and  it’s not very deep . 

 The grass does sometimes stays green in the winter because of the heat generated. 
If the grass is green over the septic field you’ve got another issue. 
But it is a great old piece of folklore most likely from long ago when septic tanks were sort of funky. 
So please if you re build Sonar build it over a tank with a concrete or fibreglass lid. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by JohnnyV

[Paul G]

23 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

: "The grass is always greener over the septic tank."

 

The grass would actually be greener over the drain field, (but who's counting)?  lol

[Craig Anderton]

6 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

So you're saying we need to putrefy Sonar to make it greener. Noted   ?

I think what Ms. Bombeck meant was that those who think the grass is greener on the other side might not want to dig too deep, because they might not like what they find 

CbB works well for me. My only complaint is that the beta version of the anti-gravity module you shared a few years ago was never developed further. But, unleashing that kind of power could have unintended consequences. You probably did the right thing.

[Bass Guitar]

1983 -Home Studio set up with 8 track Tape machine, mixing board, a few processors and an Amega or Atari computer and few hardware synths  for Midi =  $10,000. 

2023 - Home studio set up with audio interface, headphones, descent mike and near fields =$1,000. 

This seems contrary to things like the cost of a car or a case of beer and just about everything you purchase, 

Oh but I forgot, musicians are in a time warp..

1983 Gig = $100

2023 Gig = $100 

So if it takes playing 3 gigs to buy Sonar I'm in. 

[HOOK]

Paid for gigs?  You must live in a simulation.

[David Baay]

16 hours ago, JohnnyV said:

Actually that old saying is questionable.

The grass is always greener over the skeptic tank.

[bitflipper]

2 hours ago, Bass Guitar said:

Oh but I forgot, musicians are in a time warp..

1983 Gig = $100

2023 Gig = $100 

You can add 1973 to that table. The difference is that in 1973 I bought my first house out of gig earnings. Today it buys a tank of gas.

btw, last week my band went into a studio to record a going-away gift for our departing guitarist. The software in use there was Sonar 6. I am now mixing it in the current Sonar beta. I have worked on several projects that were started in CbB and seamlessly transferred to Sonar.  No one should have any qualms about losing projects going forward.

[John Vere]

Well I used to get about the same for a weekend in a 4 piece band in pubs back then. Then I went solo and more or less got what the whole band got. Bars didn’t seem to care  how many people as long as you made noise that sold more beer. 
Only thing that has changed is instead of 4 sets I only play 2. But same money. 

I’ve  made enough money this summer to build a new PC. Windows 11 here I come! It will be very cool to go right to Sonar 2023 on that shiny new machine. 
 

[Wagner Cappia]

I understand the need to pay for the product. I've been using cakewalk since it was just cakewalk. The point is that it competes with paid services, which is also not a problem in itself, but it largely opens up space for comparisons and decision-making. The protools studio costs 30 dollars per month, if the sonar costs more than that, considering it is the protools (which also has its problems), it could be an option because of its market strength, not because it is better or worse. I always had the impression that Cakewalk was supported by other Bandlab products, hence the free version. Wait...

[John Vere]

Bandlab bought Cakewalk because they saw a opportunity as a business. A music business.  
It came with a small dedicated user base that was at the time PO’d.  Many had already jumped ship and purchased other DAWS. Seems Studio one was were most of those people went. 

So think about what they had bought and where  it stood in the DAW community. Not very good at all. Generally it had a reputation as a buggy DAW that couldn’t be trusted for pro studios. 

I think the plan they developed was brilliant from a marketing and business standpoint. Definitely thinking out side the box. 
How to both overcome the bad rep and build up a larger user base. 
Simple. Make it free and hire the dedicated staff and set them loose to  make it as bulletproof as possible.  
They most certainly met or exceeded those goals.  

And they even won back a lot of people who jumped ship. How many threads have I seen started with- “ I tried Studio one but I prefer Cakewalk’s workflow “. 

Ok on to phase II. 

We should all be proud to have been part of this process that will result in most of us getting what we wanted. A solid DAW that can now stand head to head with the rest and will be a lot more popular in the DAW community. 

Good work Bandlab and Cakewalk team. You deserve a pat on the back. 
 

Edited September 11, 2023 by JohnnyV

[57Gregy]

On 9/9/2023 at 10:25 AM, Lord Tim said:

I got nearly 120 Exposures once at at gig  

Did you get arrested? ?

[Craig Anderton]

2 hours ago, JohnnyV said:

Good work Bandlab and Cakewalk team. You deserve a pat on the back. 

I agree 100%. It's a true success story in a world where bean counters usually strip what they can from an acquisition, then throw it in the trash. Hopefully other companies will learn something from BandLab's example.

You mentioned Studio One...for what it's worth, the Studio One contingent at PreSonus was pretty freaked out when it appeared Cakewalk was headed to extinction. They appreciated that Sonar was its own thing, distinct from Studio One, and respected the effort and programming that went into the software. And they also really sympathized with the user base, because they're musicians and could only imagine what it would be like to have the rug pulled out from under you (hence the serious discount for Cakewalk users who were looking for an alternative at the time).

The music industry is very different from a lot of other industries, where something like MIDI - a global cooperative effort among fierce competitors - could never happen. I think there's more "competition" among the users of the DAWs than the manufacturers, who are more likely than not to be hanging out at NAMM after hours. I'd be willing to bet that most companies wish Sonar well - as long as it's not well enough to put them out of business