jackson_js22 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Hi all. Totally new on this so pls bear with me. ? I've successfully finished writing my first drum part. I mostly write small midi drum clips and then arrange them on the clips plane the way I want. My problem is that when I play the whole part, from beginning to end, the Step Sequencer editor remains active on the last clip edited and does not dynamically update as the song plays unless I merge all the clips together (which is something I want to avoid). Is there a way to force Step Sequencer to "follow" the song progression ? Hope this makes sense ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 No, the step sequencer will not automatically load clips. It is up to the user to load the clip to edit into the step sequencer. Multiple step sequencer may be opened by locking them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseC Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 20 hours ago, jackson_js22 said: Is there a way to force Step Sequencer to "follow" the song progression ? Hope this makes sense ..... I have not tried, but I think that step sequencer clips should follow pitch markers in the timeline if you decide to use them, but they would only transpose the sequence chromatically, not fit to a scale, AFAIK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckebaby Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 On 8/30/2019 at 9:33 AM, jackson_js22 said: unless I merge all the clips together (which is something I want to avoid). Is there a reason ? It is always best to make a back up of your completed midi file (step sequencer file) once you complete them. If Cakewalk ever fails to open/corrupt project, you can kiss all that hard work goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckebaby Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Once your step sequencer clips are done you can change them back to standard midi clips. which is easier to work on sometimes. they can be easily turned back in to step sequencer clips as well...and vice versa. Right click on the clip and choose from the pop up menu: convert to midi clip / convert to step sequencer clip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson_js22 Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 Thanks for your replies guys I appreciate, but I think I'll drop Step Sequencer altogether. I'll switch to Piano Roll where I can use note values from whole notes to 16ths without merging notes. I'll never understand why note values are missing in Step Sequencer. Yesterday, for example, i was writing a Bass part and I had to merge notes all the time to make a note sound as a whole instead of "staccato" 16ths. Overall I think Step Sequencer is more childish than Piano Roll which is more versatile and flexible. I wish I could master Staff View but my score writing skills are almost non existent ? Anyway thanks for your help. PS. English is not my native language pls forgive any grammatical errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user 905133 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, jackson_js22 said: Anyway thanks for your help. Thanks for raising the issue. It prompted me to play around with the step sequencer to make make drum patterns. As a tool for entering midi data into tracks based on visually tidy measure/beat/step divisions, I can integrate it into my workflow. As you noted, it might not be the easiest tool to enter notes of different durations into a single track since that seems to require changing the number of steps for each different duration. Although the "traditional" method of music notation (staves, notes heads, stems, rests, etc.) is a few centuries old and some might say "outdated," it is somewhat logical and can be learned with a not-too-steep learning curve. However, to change note/rest durations in staff view, you would still need to change settings using the data entry tool. Sorry the step sequencer doesn't integrate well into your workflow., but I am glad you pointed me in its direction. Edited September 1, 2019 by MusicMan11712 (aka Dr. Steve) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseC Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Different tools for different tasks. CbB's Step Sequencer is like those sequencers found in synthesizers and drum boxes, it is not meant for complex midi writing. OTOH, you can get very interesting results with it if you use its probability features to introduce variations in hi hat patterns, or in synth patterns for old styles like Berlin School, for example. I let the pattern play in the Matrix and record the output. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckebaby Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 5 hours ago, jackson_js22 said: I'll switch to Piano Roll where I can use note values from whole notes to 16ths without merging notes. I can tell by your screen name and avatar your a guitarist who probably enjoys rock/metal. This is my main gig as well. I write all my drums in the Piano roll. I've tried the SS but I just couldn't work productively. Though I will admit, it was probably me not knowing everything there is to know about the SS. I just get in to a groove using the PRV. Back when I first started using it for drums, bass, exc it would take a whole day just to write a drum track. Now it takes less than an hour. I use a lot of copy/paste, select+drag functions to speed things up. Made this video like 7 years ago, but I still work the same way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenLight Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 On 8/30/2019 at 3:33 PM, jackson_js22 said: Is there a way to force Step Sequencer to "follow" the song progression ? Unfortunately no (as others already said) and the step sequencer does also not follow playback position if you have extended your step sequencer clip using groove clip looping (CTRL+L). Step sequencers in general are probably most used for drum programming for electronic dance music and hiphop, but I recently got a great melodic sequence out of it for a techno track, with some great happy accidents when clicking and removing notes. It would benefit from some more polishing though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseC Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 43 minutes ago, GreenLight said: Unfortunately no (as others already said) and the step sequencer does also not follow playback position if you have extended your step sequencer clip using groove clip looping (CTRL+L). Step sequencers in general are probably most used for drum programming for electronic dance music and hiphop, but I recently got a great melodic sequence out of it for a techno track, with some great happy accidents when clicking and removing notes. It would benefit from some more polishing though... As I said above, you can automate that using step probabilities and recording the Matrix output. I agree with you that it needs more polishing. If its integration with the Matrix was a bit better it would be a more powerful tool than it looks at first sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenLight Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 48 minutes ago, JoseC said: As I said above, you can automate that using step probabilities and recording the Matrix output. I agree with you that it needs more polishing. If its integration with the Matrix was a bit better it would be a more powerful tool than it looks at first sight. Yes, I've used step probabilities a little when programming hi-hat patterns, I think I'll investigate it a bit more... How is Matrix best put to use, if you're only doing studio work? I suppose it's a Live-style pattern trigger feature? I've never really investigated it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user 905133 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) Non-Problem/Solution content and OT aside deleted Edited September 1, 2019 by MusicMan11712 (aka Dr. Steve) man, I gotta get with the problem-solution program here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseC Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, GreenLight said: Yes, I've used step probabilities a little when programming hi-hat patterns, I think I'll investigate it a bit more... How is Matrix best put to use, if you're only doing studio work? I suppose it's a Live-style pattern trigger feature? I've never really investigated it... The main error with the Matrix is thinking that it is like Live's Session view, trying to use it like it and becoming frustrated. It is not Session View, but it can be a useful tool, even though it still needs some more work to be done, especially to use it with the Step Sequencer. The main setback is that you can not do any editing from a Matrix cell, it is basically just a player. You create your patterns or loops in a track, and then drag them to a cell in the Matrix. Currently you can create and edit a Step Sequencer pattern from a Matrix cell, but you can not listen to changes while the Matrix is running, you need to stop the Matrix and start it again, which makes it a little clunky workflow. Having said that, besides the obvious use as a scratch pad and repository for storing patterns, loops and ideas that you want to try but not want to clutter your Track View, or even as an arranging tool to create sections and recording the output, I also use it to send sysex and CC commands to hardware synths, for example: I have a Waldorf MicroQ rack that only outputs arpeggiated notes to its midi out when set to Local On. Problem is, there is no front panel way to do it, just CC messages, and the synth always initializes itself in Local Off. So I have two short midi patterns with just a CC message, one for Local On and another for Local Off and drag them to a Matrix row pointing to that synth, set like one shots, and I can send them with just a mouse click, or even map an external controller to do it. Anyway, once you get over the current poor integration with the Step Sequencer, for me the best use is what I said before, generate and record pattern variations using the step probability. Since you can do it for all CC parameters, you have a very powerful tool that will generate not only variations in notes and velocities but also in any other parameter automation, in a controllable, not random way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseC Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 42 minutes ago, MusicMan11712 (aka Dr. Steve) said: Thank you for these tips!!! I need to carve out some more time to expand my explorations of the step sequencer based on these ideas. I had done a simple test, basically: (1) a 1 measure, 3-instrument pattern that looked like what I imagined in my mind's ear (non-realtime mode--just clicking the buttons), (2) another 2 instruments entered on another midi track, and (3) a visually syncopated ride cymbal in the 2nd 1/2 of the measure on a third midi track. All 3 were done with clean step sequencer slates. So, I have been wondering where to go, and these tips point me in what sounds like an excellent direction. ASIDE: One main usage of Cakewalk Discussion seems to be Problem-Solution. However, in the discussions, I see all kinds of wonderful tips. I have wondered if it would be possible/desirable to add a dimension to the reaction nature of the Disussion Interface: In addition to Like, Thanks, etc. TIP: Step Sequencer (for example), with the potential to search TIPs and subcategories. (Just wondering out loud.) One thing to experiment with is using the Step Sequencer with the Matrix to experiment with polyrythms, like setting up a slightly shorter sequence, like 15/16 and looping it against the main beat until it cycles back. With the Matrix it is easy to make the sequence shorter or longer and then recording the output when you get results that you like, instead of dragging patterns around in Track View. And don't forget that you have Swing per step, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson_js22 Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 9/1/2019 at 2:30 PM, Chuck E Baby said: I can tell by your screen name and avatar your a guitarist who probably enjoys rock/metal. This is my main gig as well. I write all my drums in the Piano roll. I've tried the SS but I just couldn't work productively. Though I will admit, it was probably me not knowing everything there is to know about the SS. I just get in to a groove using the PRV. Back when I first started using it for drums, bass, exc it would take a whole day just to write a drum track. Now it takes less than an hour. I use a lot of copy/paste, select+drag functions to speed things up. Made this video like 7 years ago, but I still work the same way. That's correct mate. I love Rock and Metal and I use Cakewalk for my guitar backing tracks. I choose famous classical songs and create Metal Versions out of them. I'm finishing Hungarian Dance No5 now, a very fast (140 bpm) 2/4 classical masterpeice. I'll upload the finished MIDI soon for everyone to give it a try* or, even better, tweak it a little. I believe the best way to learn guitar is to play classical songs. Much better than boring scales and repetitive exersices. BTW I watched your video. Very informative. You should make more of these . * I use MT-PowerDrum kit and a Standard Bass for the tune. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenLight Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 9/1/2019 at 4:34 PM, JoseC said: The main error with the Matrix is thinking that it is like Live's Session view, trying to use it like it and becoming frustrated. <CUT> Thanks a lot for your extensive reply, @JoseC! And really smart ways of using it, including the SysEx trick, I will remember that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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