2022.09 Feedback

[Will.]

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Pretty unlikely to be directly related to this release, since there is a very bounded set of changes.  Attach a crash dump and we can see what the cause is.

No problem. Its just, theres absolutely nothing in the project. Like I said: I would literally just play some chords using the free kontakt player with its factory presets. 

[Glenn Stanton]

i've had several apps crash since MS updated their Edge browser last week. i re-ran the runtime installer and things are stable again.

[Will.]

12 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

i've had several apps crash since MS updated their Edge browser last week. i re-ran the runtime installer and things are stable again.

I did do a windows update on friday. 

I'll try to install the full installer package now that i have it, instead of the updates and see how it goes this week out. 

Thanks. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Will.

[Bryon]

2022.09 install went fine, CW starts and runs as usual, however, any time I insert a new plugin I get glitchy audio as if the sample rate was lowered and I'm running out of buffers (I'm not; Win10, 16G ram, 8 cores, everything set to 2,048, load balancing on, relatively small projects). So far, saving, then closing and reopening the project seems to smooth things out - but it's kinda scary. I'm digging the improvements to the UI, seems smoother, though at load time it does have some issues with rendering. I assume this is now an early stage of the recent changes made so devs are kind of feeling their way through working with a new MS code base. Must be difficult to balance Win11 requirements while not messing up Win10 legacy code issues, workarounds, etc. I get it. Otherwise, I got nothing to add here, just that glitching after loading plugins issue.

[Noel Borthwick]

Which version were you running prior to 09? There are zero changes that would affect audio streaming in 09 compared to 06. If you are seeing something its coincidental.
Also, Windows 10 vs 11 presents no change to the actual code so we aren't doing anything different for Win 11 as far as audio goes. 

[jackson white]

5 hours ago, Will. said:

I did do a windows update on friday. 

fwiw/jme, this tends to be a recurring issue that takes some -system- "exercising" to shake out the changes.

been running fairly complex projects just fine until something gets updated and noting some performance degradation (i.e. dropouts, "responsiveness", etc.) nb. only making level changes, minor fx tweaks. no tracking/editing/swapping out a bunch of vsts.

initially assumed it was some system cfg setting reset with the update, but that hasn't been the case for a while. looking more like vst specific issues. sometimes deleting/reloading them has made a difference,

[Bryon]

11 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Which version were you running prior to 09? There are zero changes that would affect audio streaming in 09 compared to 06. If you are seeing something its coincidental.
Also, Windows 10 vs 11 presents no change to the actual code so we aren't doing anything different for Win 11 as far as audio goes. 

Whichever was the last before 09, I always do the updates as they are suggested.  I narrowed the glitchiness down to Eventide's Blackhole reverb when first inserting it and then when making changes to its Gravity while in solo, sometimes just when soloing the channel via the plugin does it. Audio begins glitching when played and then continues every time I hit play until I save, close and then reopen the project. Audiority's LDC2 was also glitching for a few seconds after inserting it but not as much as Blackhole. Windows update this AM seems to have affected it somewhat, I'll check later and run both through their paces. Hang tight. As for Win10 Vs. 11, ok, I had read a lot of confusing things here on people reverting due to Windows updates and assumed the versioning might be complicating things. Nevermind me, I just poke around in the dark.

[Noel Borthwick]

If you are hearing glitching that goes away it would appear that the plugin is using enough CPU that is close to saturating one core/thread. Does raising latency improve it? Also try turning off load balancing esp if you are running at low latency. Load balancing is more useful at moderate buffer sizes.

[Bryon]

My buffer size is all the way up at 2,048 (I turn plugins off and lower it when I record, then raise it again to mix or review what's just been recorded - if the project is large). Multi-processing engine ON, and plugin Load Balancing was ON. Turning Load Balancing OFF seems to do it. This just started with 2022.09, before that I never had this issue (going back to Sonar 7?, around 2009 on WinXP with a way less powerful system). When Load Balancing is ON the glitches start and then keep going when the solo'd source track audio has ended but the empty track is still "playing". It only stops when play is stopped and it's there in+out of solo. I never fully understood the point at which Load Balancing becomes beneficial so I've just kept it on at all times. The Performance Module, showing System Performance and Engine Load, looks the same with Load Balancing ON or OFF, System maxes out around 50% and Engine 16%, I see none of the yellow bars spiking or raised more than half way when in Play (Load Balancing ON/OFF), at idle (stopped) they hover between 10-15%. Seems like 2022.09 narrowed the window on Load Balancing's impact on plugin latency in a way that just doesn't show any late buffers or core overs to the user. If it were buffers it feels like there would be a dropout and play would be halted after a few seconds of it. It sounds more like a scratched CD when it happens, audio keeps playing but there's that "Pop, wiggity, wiggity, jar, jar, Pop, Pop, wiggity" thing happening. It's actually quite funny in context lol. If you were here I'm sure we'd both be laughing at how it throws one back to budget DJ at a bowling alley in 1990.

[jackson white]

Preferences > Audio > Configuration File > Properties > ThreadSchedulingModel might be a factor in some cases.

fwiw, I've had to do some project specific buffer "optimization" (both Playback/Record I/O and A/I) but all projects are running well here. Max values were not always the best solution, which implies system specific configuration, at least in my case. 

[David Baay]

11 hours ago, Bryon said:

I never fully understood the point at which Load Balancing becomes beneficial so I've just kept it on at all times.

My experince is that Plugin Load Balancing is more often detrimental than helpful so I leave it off unless I see some condition that looks like it might benefit.

Also in my experience, other common causes of weird audio glitching are:

- Having streched audio in the project.

- Having the 64-bit double Precision Enginer enabled.

- Running a 'Goldilocks' plugin (buffer size has to be 'just right', not too high or too low).

- Some combination of the above.

Any chance you set ThreadSchedulingModel=3 ("Aggressive") in your config file (AUD.INi) at some point? (I see jackson white had the same thought.)

[István Máté]

Quote

 

Mono inputs from Patch Points and Aux Tracks

Prior to this release, if a track or bus had an input assigned to a mono input (L/R) from an AUX track or Patch Point, the input would always and include both left and right channels from the patch point when playing back. Patch point inputs now correctly include just the channel specified as a track input.

 

This is messing with my projects too. Prior this release, if I sent via Sends from a stereo track to a hardware output's Left channel only, then the stereo signal was downmixed and sent to the Left channel only. Now it is downmixed and sent to Both channels...

Luckily, I was testing it before letting everybody hear the metronome in the PA besides the Bass guitar...

[Tez]

Screen Render Artifacts:

I have a MIDI source, Synth Track Folder, 1st Synth Audio and an archived sub-folder containing a couple of additional MIDI tracks. The folder is collapsed and in it’s track it shows the color bars of the tracks it contains as normal mostly, but frequently the sub-folder color bars show as artifacts in arbitrary locations on the track, they can be gotten rid of, but frequently reappear. This is an annoyance that has persisted since before version 2022.09.

[David Baay]

3 hours ago, Tez said:

The folder is collapsed and in it’s track it shows the color bars of the tracks it contains as normal mostly, but frequently the sub-folder color bars show as artifacts in arbitrary locations on the track, they can be gotten rid of, but frequently reappear.

I saw this just yesterday with a folder containing four audio tracks. Have not see it before but don't use folders in a lot of my projects so couldn't say how new it might be.

EDIT: I found an action that causes it consistently:  Reselecting the current screenset.

I have the 1 key bound to Reset Peak Indicators, but on my laptop I had mistakenly made that binding in the Track View context instead of changing the Global binding so the 1st screenset was also getting re-selected every time I hit it due to the default Global binding.

With the track folder collapsed, the bars jump down to display in the last track when I re-select the current screenset. If the track folder is open, they jump down to the second track in the folder.

Edited October 15, 2022 by David Baay

[Tez]

11 hours ago, David Baay said:

I found an action that causes it consistently

A lucky strike, the consistency will maybe help to resolve the rendering issues ?

[Will.]

Delete. 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Will.

[kzmaier]

Does this change "ProChannel plugins no longer receive MIDI" in 9/22 mean PC modules cannot be controlled by a control surface???

 

Thanks

Edited October 16, 2022 by kzmaier

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, kzmaier said:

Does this change "ProChannel plugins no longer receive MIDI" in 9/22 mean PC modules cannot be controlled by a control surface???

 

Thanks

It shouldn't do.  ACT controls the parameters directly via the VST API, not via MIDI.

[user 905133]

4 hours ago, msmcleod said:

6 hours ago, kzmaier said:

Does this change "ProChannel plugins no longer receive MIDI" in 9/22 mean PC modules cannot be controlled by a control surface???

It shouldn't do.  ACT controls the parameters directly via the VST API, not via MIDI.

Suppose someone uses MIDI [aka Remote Control / Learn] within ProChannels, not ACT, to control parameters? 

[scook]

7 hours ago, User 905133 said:

Suppose someone uses MIDI [aka Remote Control / Learn] within ProChannels

Just tested with 2022.09 build 27, remote control works OK with PC QCEQ.